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Thursday, August 30, 2007< ^ >
TobiasFar has set the subject to: Jabber Development
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[02:05:03] <tjgillies> is there a way to send messages via jabber from a webpage?
[02:07:29] <Alex> yup, what is your prefered "web langauge"?
[02:08:09] <tjgillies> php
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[02:12:04] <tjgillies> whats the best way?
[02:13:55] <Alex> jabber.class.php
[02:14:11] <tjgillies> thnx
[02:14:42] <Alex> or a xmpp server which allow you o write messages to a db table or file system for sending
[02:14:59] <Alex> Tigase and jabberd 1.4 support this
[02:15:33] <Alex> there is also a new php lib from a GSOC project this year, but i don't have the uel
[02:15:53] <tjgillies> Alex: thnx
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[02:29:19] <smoku> Kev, Are you sure, that the Linux build of Psi 0.11RC2 that you link on blog supports compression? It does not start compression when offered by server.
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[07:36:54] <ermine> how can i checkout from svn.xmpp.org? I see only fisheye
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[07:39:00] <ermine> google rlz
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[07:42:12] <MattJ> cyclone, why do you keep doing that?
[07:42:39] <MattJ> Oops, Pidgin/Google Talk user?
[07:43:06] <MattJ> iTalk 0.01beta... hmm
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[08:09:02] <TobiasFar> hi
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[08:21:06] <Alex> hi tobias
[08:22:27] <smoku> whoa!
sx (io.c:303) 9 ready for writing
sx (io.c:261) encoding 231 bytes for writing
sx (chain.c:79) calling io write chain
sx (compress.c:147) in _sx_compress_wio
sx (compress.c:151) loading 231 bytes into zlib write buffer
sx (compress.c:194) passing 24 bytes from zlib write buffer
sx (io.c:324) handing app 24 bytes to write
[08:22:42] <smoku> 231 bytes -> 24 bytes
[08:22:44] <smoku> nice
[08:28:18] <Alex> ya zlib compresses very well
[08:28:31] <Alex> a while ago i posted stats on teh standards list
[08:28:47] <Alex> in the client i had presence packets with only 3 or 4 bytes
[08:30:16] <MattJ> :o
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[08:47:49] <er4z0r> hi folks
[08:48:44] <MattJ> Hi
[08:49:40] <er4z0r> did I get it: within a <stream>-context there can not only be the XML-Stanzas of the Type Message, Presence and IQ , but also <error>-Elements (which are not considered as stanzas)
[08:51:56] <MattJ> You got it
[08:52:08] <MattJ> Though I had no idea <error> was allowed directly
[08:52:43] <MattJ> That's more likely my ignorance if you read it somewhere
[08:54:53] <MattJ> "The root stream element MAY contain an <error/> child element that is prefixed by the streams namespace prefix. "
[08:55:04] <MattJ> So it would usually be <stream:error> I think
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[09:11:58] <smoku> please ban it
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[09:16:31] <er4z0r> MattJ: right, that is how I got it
[09:23:44] <er4z0r> thanks for you help. bye
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[10:42:57] <45664> Hi guys
[10:43:04] <newmanbe> Hello.
[10:43:13] newmanbe has set the subject to: Jabber `Developement'
[10:43:33] <45664> Any bot specialist in here?
[10:44:13] <elmex> 45664: ?
[10:44:26] <elmex> i'm not a bot specialist, but i know about coding :0
[10:44:40] <45664> I need a bot
[10:45:59] <45664> That acts as a jabber contact and should send random messages at command
[10:46:07] <45664> Bot
[10:48:04] <elmex> well, i don't know about such a program, but writing something like that won't be much work
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[11:16:37] <MattJ> 45664, if you hang around, I may be able to dig up some xepbot code for you, which you could use
[11:17:15] <elmex> i'm already finished :)
[11:17:22] <elmex> but he might like your code more
[11:17:28] <elmex> (maybe no perl dependency)
[11:19:20] <MattJ> Oh, give him yours elmex :)
[11:19:36] <MattJ> Mine has Lua and gloox for dependencies
[11:19:56] <45664> Help matt
[11:20:28] <elmex> MattJ: maybe it';s easier to setup on windows
[11:21:27] <MattJ> I have a waiting list for a Windows build :P
[11:21:42] <MattJ> A special roster group for those people I promised it to
[11:21:47] <45664> K cool
[11:21:48] <MattJ> (no joke)
[11:23:11] <45664> Really
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[11:27:10] <elmex> MattJ: try to talk to talking_netxmpp2@jabber.org and please tell me whether it works :)
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[11:36:53] <MattJ> "You said 'Boo!' but... You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend too much time readingthis sort of trash."
[11:37:01] <elmex> hehe
[11:37:03] <MattJ> :P
[11:37:10] <elmex> it's jusit a fortune database
[11:37:15] <elmex> ok, gresat it works
[11:37:16] <elmex> thanks
[11:39:02] <TobiasFar> MattJ: lua and gloox is faster o build on windows than downloading perl :P
[11:39:21] <elmex> i havent tried how cpan works with activestate perl
[11:39:44] <elmex> but i can imagein that it wont be easy to setup openssl and all that for building Net::XMPP2 :-)
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[11:41:44] <TobiasFar> luckily gloox doesn't need openssl on windows thanks to some handsome guy :P
[11:41:52] <elmex> hehe
[11:45:26] <45664> How does gloox work
[11:46:42] <TobiasFar> after you compiled it it'll run the code directly on the processor
[11:47:52] <elmex> hehe
[11:47:53] <elmex> lol
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[11:52:09] <45664> Help
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[11:52:50] <elmex> m, weird guy
[11:53:03] <elmex> at least i got the chance to write another nice example script for Net::XMPP2 :-)
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[11:59:02] <TobiasFar> hi stpeter
[11:59:46] <deryni> I asked this a day or two ago but didn't get a real answer, though some people did try to help, apologies for asking again but, "XMPP allows SASL initial response data, correct? And the DIGEST-MD5 SASL mechanism allows that as well, correct?"
[12:01:54] <elmex> hmmm
[12:02:03] <TobiasFar> stpeter: a comment on "XEP-0138 vs. TLS compression"; i really don't like the idea of creating a new XEP for just a new compression algorithm. wouldn't it be better to use the MIME type or something like that in XEP-0138 instead of writing a new xep for all compression algos?
[12:02:07] <elmex> deryni: what you mean with 'initial response data' ?
[12:02:24] <deryni> Data in the client' initial <auth> packet.
[12:05:48] <stpeter> howdy
[12:06:58] <elmex> deryni: yea, it's allowed afaik. and for some mechanisms it is needed
[12:07:05] <deryni> <stream:features><mechanisms><mechanism>DIGEST-MD5</m></m></s:f>
<auth mechanism='DIGEST-MD5'>initial_data</auth>
[12:07:09] <elmex> deryni: but i'm unsure whether it serves any purpose in digest-md5
[12:07:12] <stpeter> deryni: yes, XMPP allows initial response data
[12:08:56] <stpeter> deryni: and yes that is allowed in DIGEST-MD5
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[12:10:03] <deryni> So if the Java SASL stuff in Wildfire/Openfire is throwing an error saying "SaslException javax.security.sasl.SaslException: DIGEST-MD5 must not have an initial response" it is being broken?
[12:10:34] <deryni> I'm trying to handle a bug report in case that wasn't clear.
[12:10:42] <stpeter> deryni: I think so yes
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[12:11:28] <deryni> Ok, that's what I got from my looking at the RFCs but I wanted to double check. Thanks.
[12:11:29] <stpeter> BTW we will probably get rid of DIGEST-MD5 in rfc3920bis
[12:12:02] <vorner> stpeter: like being forbidden or just not required?
[12:12:05] <deryni> Yeah, I've heard the mutterings on the lists.
[12:12:09] <stpeter> vorner: not required
[12:12:25] <stpeter> any SASL mechanism is allowed
[12:12:57] <vorner> because it's quite easy one to implement even without libs (copy&paste magic) - it has ~50 lines of code, so I quite like it
[12:12:57] <stpeter> but there is enough confusion about DIGEST-MD5 that it is better to make TLS+SASL_PLAIN mandatory-to-implement instead of DIGEST-MD5
[12:13:28] <stpeter> vorner: it seems that different people interpret the spec (RFC 2831) differently
[12:13:44] <stpeter> and IETF people don't really want to update it
[12:13:56] <vorner> hm, happens sometimes :-|
[12:14:01] <stpeter> heh
[12:14:22] <TobiasFar> stpeter: what do you think about it?
[12:14:26] <45664> Guys pls download this and tell me what u think
[12:14:28] <elmex> PLAIN without TLS would be fine for me
[12:14:33] <stpeter> LOL
[12:14:40] <stpeter> um, ok :)
[12:15:00] <elmex> i mean: i run my own server and i'm sure noone sniffs on my LAN
[12:15:01] <stpeter> I still use plaintext auth, but only when connecting from the same machine where the jabber.org server runs :)
[12:15:06] <stpeter> elmex: sure
[12:15:22] <stpeter> elmex: that's a service deployment policy, not an implementation requirement
[12:15:23] <elmex> stpeter: and i consider it a FEATURE!! if i can sniff other people passwords :-)
[12:15:37] <stpeter> heehee
[12:15:38] <stpeter> well
[12:15:40] <stpeter> if you run the server
[12:15:47] <stpeter> presumably you have other ways to get the pw
[12:15:52] <stpeter> I know I do at jabber.org ;-)
[12:15:57] <elmex> hrhr
[12:15:59] <45664> Www.mxit.co.za/wap
[12:16:29] <stpeter> but then I'm the password lookup guy
[12:16:40] <elmex> ;)
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[12:24:14] <stpeter> 45664 is funny
[12:24:30] <TobiasFar> no
[12:24:36] <TobiasFar> ;)
[12:24:45] <stpeter> he PM'd me about helping him to run a public jabber service and wondered why I didn't want to help -- as if I have time for that!
[12:24:59] <newmanbe> You don't have time to run your own server. ;)
[12:25:11] <stpeter> newmanbe: right!
[12:27:09] newmanbe notes that he missed stpeter's birthday this year.
[12:27:21] <stpeter> LOL
[12:28:00] <stpeter> BTW, trivia of the day: did you know that Jimmy Wales was born the day after I was?
[12:28:23] <newmanbe> No wonder you're less controversial; you have more experience.
[12:28:34] <stpeter> ROTFL
[12:28:40] <stpeter> that's good :)
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[12:28:49] <stpeter> I'll have to use that the next time I see him
[12:29:03] <newmanbe> Tell him I've edited his user page on meta.
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[12:30:06] <newmanbe> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/meta/w/index.php?title=User:Jimbo_Wales&diff=490032&oldid=434654
[12:30:49] <elmex> stpeter: 45664 askedyou too?
[12:31:24] <elmex> he asked me to write a bot :-)
[12:31:27] <elmex> (and i did :-)
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[12:34:31] <stpeter> elmex: you're more of a sucker than I am :)
[12:34:51] <elmex> why that, lol?
[12:35:52] <elmex> a fortune quiting bot sounded like a fun example for Net::XMPP2 ;-)
[12:35:57] <elmex> *quoting
[12:38:54] <TobiasFar> stpeter: did you miss my initial message?
[12:39:26] <stpeter> TobiasFar: I think so
[12:39:54] <stpeter> TobiasFar: oh, about compression algorithms?
[12:40:02] <TobiasFar> yeah
[12:40:28] <stpeter> we have a registry
[12:40:34] <stpeter> registries exist for a reason
[12:40:40] <stpeter> you think I create them for fun?
[12:42:34] <TobiasFar> stpeter: maybe :P
[12:42:44] <stpeter> gosh I think I need a vacation :)
[12:43:08] <TobiasFar> but ending in 6 XEPs just adding some compression algorithms sounds lame
[12:44:26] stpeter shrugs
[12:45:06] <stpeter> I think we may want a more detailed explanation of how efficient xml should be used
[12:45:17] <stpeter> is that just a compression algorithm? I don't think so
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[12:48:30] <stpeter> hi Alex
[12:48:41] <Alex> Hi Peter
[12:49:30] <Alex> whats going on on the other side of the ocean?
[12:51:07] <stpeter> Alex: slowly but surely falling behind on email again :(
[12:51:40] <Alex> you need a secretary for your email
[12:52:10] <deryni> You could trade services with 45664. =)
[12:53:38] <TobiasFar> or just get used to COMMAND + BACKSPACE ;)
[12:54:16] <stpeter> Alex: heh maybe
[12:54:32] <stpeter> Alex: the problem is that too many people are interested in jabber these days :)
[12:55:06] <TobiasFar> maybe another name change which leads in wider confusion helps to reduce incomming mail ;)
[12:55:16] <stpeter> LOL
[12:55:17] <stpeter> yeah
[12:55:19] <stpeter> great idea!
[12:58:40] <stpeter> TobiasFar: you are a genius! :P
[12:59:39] <TobiasFar> yeah..well..it's more a curse than a blessing :P
[13:21:39] <TobiasFar> yeah...just 4 days left to BB EM '07 in spain :)
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[14:03:02] <Lorena> aloha
[14:03:36] <Lorena> hello
[14:03:39] <Lorena> anybody?
[14:03:49] <TobiasFar> hi
[14:03:50] <jeti> hi
[14:03:57] <Lorena> hi there
[14:04:00] <Lorena> am cuban
[14:04:16] <jeti> quite some cubans here lately
[14:04:35] <Lorena> sorry if ur talking about something
[14:04:41] <Lorena> jeti hi
[14:04:44] <vorner> Lorena: And want to help developing jabber? Nice :-)
[14:05:04] <Lorena> here i´ts 3 pi em
[14:05:28] <Lorena> sorry, my english is not the best
[14:05:28] <jeti> it's 9 pm here
[14:05:41] <Lorena> jeti where is "here"?
[14:06:05] <Lorena> vorner dont know a word of what ur saying jiji
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[14:07:03] <Lorena> hey people
[14:07:13] <jeti> here is in the netherlands
[14:07:20] <Lorena> waoooooooo
[14:07:26] <Lorena> far away from here
[14:07:42] <jeti> yes we have the whole world here
[14:09:12] <Lorena> wao
[14:10:28] <jeti> they are not saying much most of the time though
[14:11:47] <Lorena> jeti are u thinking of coming some day?
[14:12:02] <jeti> to cuba?
[14:12:02] <TobiasFar> here is germany
[14:12:12] <Lorena> yes
[14:12:29] <jeti> well that's quite far away
[14:12:32] <Lorena> your nick says: Far... already jaja
[14:13:01] <jeti> haven't been at that side of the ocean yet
[14:13:16] <Lorena> jeti ufffffffffffff I wish
[14:13:36] <Lorena> not yet
[14:13:56] <jeti> might go there someday
[14:14:10] <jeti> but I can say that to most places on earth
[14:14:18] <Lorena> jeti ur going to suffer
[14:14:30] <jeti> suffer from what?
[14:14:31] <TobiasFar> Lorena: well..that Far is from the town where i live :)
[14:14:35] <Lorena> it´s very hot here
[14:14:48] <Lorena> tobias... it´s called far?
[14:14:55] <jeti> probalby hot and humid too
[14:15:07] <TobiasFar> Lorena: no..but starts with it
[14:15:13] <Lorena> jeti yeahhh!! very very...
[14:15:15] <jeti> I went to egypt, it's hot there too but not so humid so that's bearable
[14:15:24] <Lorena> tobias ok... thas was a joke
[14:15:38] <Lorena> jeti yes,
[14:15:45] <Lorena> Cuba is horrible
[14:15:46] <TobiasFar> jeti: my sis is going there too this year
[14:16:07] <jeti> it's already quite hot here when it's 30 degrees celcius
[14:16:16] <Lorena> tobias to Cuba?
[14:16:20] <jeti> it's quite nice in egypt
[14:16:34] <jeti> wouldn't go there in summer though
[14:16:44] <Lorena> jeti well I´m going there some day
[14:17:02] <TobiasFar> Lorena: no..egypt
[14:17:07] <jeti> quite impressive all those temples
[14:17:07] <Lorena> ah ok
[14:17:26] <Lorena> have you been in America?
[14:17:34] <TobiasFar> nope
[14:18:04] jeti has only been in europe and north africa
[14:18:44] <Lorena> better than I
[14:18:54] <TobiasFar> i've just have been in serveral european countries..like denmakr, netherlands, italy and austria
[14:19:28] <Lorena> tobias I made my final work about an austrian philosopher
[14:19:31] vorner has been to Mexico once. Paid by my country :-)
[14:19:47] <jeti> what where you doing there then?
[14:19:55] <TobiasFar> vorner: what country is that? :P
[14:19:58] <Lorena> vorner have you seen the ancient cities? mayas,??
[14:20:03] <vorner> TobiasFar: Czech Republic
[14:20:29] <vorner> jeti: IOI, kind of competition. There is no concurency in CZ, so I made it there :D
[14:20:44] <jeti> ah
[14:20:47] <vorner> Lorena: Yes, but I do not remember which one it was
[14:20:59] Alleco_ joins the room
[14:21:13] <vorner> Lorena: Iguanas and pyramids everywhere :-)
[14:21:21] <Alleco_> hiii
[14:21:27] <Lorena> hi alleco
[14:21:35] <Lorena> that`s my partner!!!
[14:21:41] <Lorena> he is cuban too
[14:21:52] <Lorena> vorner you say it in a way...
[14:21:55] <Alleco_> no se nota??
[14:22:02] <Lorena> jajaja
[14:22:10] <Lorena> alleco viste? ya sabes un truquillo
[14:22:18] <Alleco_> anjap thanks
[14:22:26] legoscia joins the room
[14:22:41] <Lorena> it´s not always the same, sometimes it´s hard
[14:23:01] <Lorena> people this is Alleco, my friend!!
[14:23:17] <jeti> Hi Alleco
[14:23:20] <Lorena> vorner didn´t you like Mexico?
[14:23:31] <vorner> Lorena: Yes, I did
[14:23:48] Alleco_ leaves the room
[14:23:59] <vorner> You know, it was happy statement, we have no pyramids no iguanas in central europe
[14:24:55] <Lorena> vorner, the american precolombine civilizations are fascinating
[14:25:58] <vorner> Well, I guess so. But we were there only one evening, so there was not much time to study it. Most of the time, we were in the middle of a large city
[14:26:03] <Lorena> in cuba there were just minors groups
[14:26:19] <Lorena> vorner oh I see
[14:27:34] <Lorena> cuba doesn´t have great cultural things... the view is beautiful... the country...
[14:27:45] <Lorena> varadero beach
[14:28:00] legoscia leaves the room
[14:28:09] <jeti> the netherlands doesn't have much natural view left
[14:28:22] <Lorena> jeti why is that?
[14:28:37] <jeti> too small with too many people
[14:28:55] <Lorena> oh
[14:29:25] <Lorena> here we are 11 millions
[14:29:47] <jeti> here 16
[14:29:48] <Lorena> the number is falling... because of the emigration to EEUU
[14:30:33] <jeti> 395 people per square km
[14:30:58] <jeti> cuba has 102
[14:30:58] <Lorena> jeti: why I see too much people here? they are actually here ?
[14:31:01] <Lorena> jesus
[14:31:10] <stpeter> wow, lively chat here :)
[14:31:10] <stpeter> a bit laggy today though?
[14:31:11] stpeter checks the server load
[14:31:40] <jeti> most people here only ocassionally checking the chat
[14:31:56] <stpeter> jeti: as usual
[14:32:09] <stpeter> CPU and memory usage seem OK
[14:32:16] <Lorena> jeti that´s a big number... how you do to live'
[14:32:26] <stpeter> but we need to get a new machine for the jabber.org xmpp service
[14:32:36] <Lorena> hi stpeter
[14:32:45] <stpeter> hi Lorena
[14:32:50] <jeti> or less people on it :P
[14:33:15] <jeti> the netherlands is becoming a large city
[14:33:27] <stpeter> jeti: eah
[14:33:28] <stpeter> yeah
[14:33:31] <stpeter> one big city
[14:33:37] <Lorena> jeti how is work there?
[14:33:37] <stpeter> Randstad taking over the whole country
[14:34:31] <Lorena> people... Am on my way out
[14:34:34] <jeti> economically it is yes
[14:34:41] <stpeter> hasta luego
[14:34:49] <Lorena> jijijji
[14:34:51] <jeti> bye
[14:34:57] <Lorena> adiós stpeter
[14:35:03] legoscia joins the room
[14:35:04] <Lorena> nice to meet you both
[14:35:26] <stpeter> likewise
[14:35:46] <Lorena> i´ll try to come again
[14:35:48] <Lorena> soon
[14:35:51] <stpeter> ok!
[14:35:56] <stpeter> see you then :)
[14:36:07] <Lorena> ;-)
[14:36:31] stpeter realizes that he's way behind on 10 different work items
[14:36:51] <Lorena> bye tobias
[14:36:57] MattJ is behind on 20 (life + work)
[14:37:01] <TobiasFar> jeti: netherlands are just flat, right? -;
[14:37:08] <TobiasFar> ;)
[14:37:17] <jeti> yes basically it's flat yet
[14:37:25] <stpeter> BTW http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hellstrom-textpreview-02.txt may be interesting to those of you who care about char-by-char chat
[14:37:38] Lorena leaves the room
[14:37:42] <stpeter> jeti: except for those big mountains in Limburg :)
[14:37:52] <jeti> yeah the big mountains :)
[14:37:55] <stpeter> heh
[14:38:11] <jeti> some are even called mountain
[14:38:50] stpeter lives at around 1600 m altitude...
[14:39:13] <jeti> /jeti live probalby at a negative altitude
[14:39:35] TobiasFar about 8m...+
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[15:33:16] mridul joins the room
[15:34:57] <TobiasFar> hi mridul
[15:35:05] <mridul> hi !
[15:35:54] <mridul> was going through avatar specs and wondering why we cant externalize the data to some other repository and just include a uri as the data ... :)
[15:36:23] <mridul> anyone here as expierence or comments on that ?
[15:36:39] <TobiasFar> maybe because of some security issues. they usually forbid the fun and easy stuff :P
[15:36:48] <mridul> :)
[15:36:55] <Alex> isn't there a new avatar xep using pubsub?
[15:37:19] <TobiasFar> afaik there are just two: the vcard based and a pep based
[15:37:34] <mridul> @alex my impression was that the data would retrieved as inband image data ?
[15:37:56] <TobiasFar> in vcard: yes
[15:38:11] <jeti> pep too isn't it?
[15:38:22] <TobiasFar> jeti: doesn't know
[15:38:24] <mridul> tobiasfar: the examples in pep avatar also indicated the same
[15:38:32] <jeti> and why not
[15:38:38] <jeti> it's not that they are huge
[15:38:56] <TobiasFar> mridul: then blame one of its authors who is in this room
[15:39:00] <mridul> heh
[15:39:11] <TobiasFar> i bet stpeter is the only one :P
[15:39:29] <jeti> why requiring external services when you can do it internally
[15:39:33] <mridul> jeti: it need not be managed or stored in xmpp user repository - but elsewhere, and users might just want to include a link to it
[15:39:53] <mridul> also, it makes it externally referencable - so things like webclients can use avatar
[15:41:21] <jeti> but now it's easy for non webclients
[15:41:37] <jeti> only need a jabber server
[15:43:00] <mridul> jeti: i was not thinking of a replacement of current mechanism, it definitely has value - just wondering if it makes sense for addition of a uri type also
[15:43:51] <mridul> whether it is possible currently, and if not, whether it is possible to add support for it
[15:43:52] <jeti> The <info/> element MAY possess the following attribute:
* url -- An http: or https: URI at which the image data file may be found.
[15:44:20] <jeti> so seems already possible
[15:45:55] <mridul> great ! thanks for point that out - i was looking at the old versions, and vcard spec - since the client in question wont be supporting pep for now :)
[15:46:55] <jeti> ah
[15:47:19] <jeti> need to add pep sometimes too
[15:47:41] <mridul> adding pep from a webclient is going to be a bit ... time consuming ? :)
[15:48:03] stpeter wanders back into the room
[15:48:21] <jeti> it is going to be in my appelt
[15:48:25] <jeti> sometimes
[15:48:45] <mridul> hi peter, if the info element contains a url, then should the data element be present for xep 84 ?
[15:48:46] <jeti> jingle also fits in so pep should too
[15:49:23] <stpeter> oh gosh I need to update that one :)
[15:49:27] stpeter reads
[15:49:55] <mridul> jeti: jingle from a applet ? you might run into sandbox issues :)
[15:50:09] <jeti> coded around those
[15:50:34] <jeti> escaped from the sandbox
[15:50:46] <stpeter> heh
[15:50:50] <mridul> unless you get it signed, ask for perms, etc
[15:50:53] <mridul> why not use webstart ?
[15:51:09] <jeti> you need to sign that too
[15:51:22] <mridul> yes, but better freedom in terms of what can be done
[15:51:38] <jeti> can do about the same
[15:52:07] <mridul> predominently, customers deploy our client such that it is accessed via webstart
[15:52:12] <stpeter> mridul: I think the idea is that if you include the 'url', the data is available via HTTP, not a data node
[15:52:13] <jeti> it's a bit odd that I can't get permissions to get audio input from applets but I can put things in the java ext dir
[15:52:49] <mridul> stpeter: great ! so this is the only spec which allows externalizing the data and referencing it as a uri right ? for all other avatar related specs, we need to have it inband ?
[15:52:57] <stpeter> mridul: right
[15:53:16] <mridul> ok, that should clarify some things, and get me beaten up by others :)
[15:53:35] <jeti> I also had a network version of jeti you only need one class there and it loads the rest over the network
[15:53:46] <stpeter> mridul: oh sorry :)
[15:53:58] <stpeter> mridul: I need to update that spec
[15:54:02] <jeti> worked great at university where we had little diskspace
[15:54:03] <stpeter> been waiting for XEP-0060 updates
[15:54:26] <mridul> stpeter: i just wanted some way to externalize the data out of xmpp context
[15:54:33] <mridul> this should be sufficient !
[15:55:53] <mridul> jeti: with webstart, you will just have a jnlp
[15:56:05] <mridul> everything else is streamed through the network
[15:56:07] <stpeter> mridul: yes, this does that
[15:56:33] <mridul> though it is not as bad as applets - better caching, designed for applications, higher 'rights' to what can be done, etc
[15:56:35] <jeti> yes but university didn't have webstart then
[15:56:48] <mridul> ah, it is part of the jre now
[15:56:53] <mridul> forgot since which ver
[15:57:19] <mridul> stpeter: sending mail on that :) thanks !
[15:57:24] <jeti> still doesn't work on my 64bit linux though
[15:57:36] <mridul> javaws ? it should
[15:57:52] <mridul> i use it at work - plugin does not
[15:57:58] <jeti> * javaws is not available for sun-jdk-1.6 on x86_64
[15:58:00] <mridul> you can directly save the jnlp and launch it
[15:58:12] <mridul> the browser integration is not available
[15:58:30] <jeti> that's the output of javawd
[15:58:31] <jeti> s
[15:59:06] Christian_ leaves the room
[15:59:16] <mridul> $JAVA_HOME/bin/javaws ?
[15:59:31] <stpeter> brb
[16:00:06] <jeti> the java 6 releasenotes also mention that there is no java plugin and webstart
[16:00:12] <jeti> for 64 bit
[16:01:44] <mridul> there is no java plugin, and webstart support from browser, yes
[16:01:52] <mridul> though you can directly launch it from command line
[16:02:05] <mridul> if using linux, should be comfortable with cli :-D
[16:03:27] <mridul> (it might be that i have some internal build hacked to work on linux x64 - will check tomorrow at work)
[16:04:39] <jeti> that might be it, only things I see online are using a 32 bit jvm for webstart
[16:05:57] mridul leaves the room
[16:06:00] <TobiasFar> someone familiar with Eclipse CDT?
[16:07:53] sjr joins the room
[16:08:20] mridul joins the room
[16:08:48] 45664 joins the room
[16:15:09] jeti leaves the room
[16:16:56] ermine leaves the room
[16:18:35] <mridul> tobiasfar: nope, i do know of people using NetBeans C/C++ Development Pack though :) [http://www.netbeans.org/products/cplusplus/] <http://www.netbeans.org/products/cplusplus/]>
[16:20:37] <stpeter> heh the jaikubot is addictive :)
[16:21:05] <mridul> stpeter: not used it yet :)
[16:21:21] <stpeter> yet another timesink :)
[16:21:39] <mridul> maybe in a month - too much happening right now !
[16:21:50] <stpeter> mridul: always
[16:22:05] <mridul> yes :-D
[16:23:19] <mridul> peter: which was the mobile phone which had xmpp client ?
[16:23:53] <stpeter> mridul: the Nokia 770 and Nokia 800 have that
[16:23:56] <stpeter> maybe others :)
[16:24:23] <mridul> is it xep 124 client ? or 'normal' xmpp client ? that is persistent connection, etc ?
[16:24:29] <mridul> dont own one :)
[16:24:36] <stpeter> cool, the IETF has RSS feeds for I-Ds :)
[16:24:39] <stpeter> like https://datatracker.ietf.org/idtracker/draft-ietf-mmusic-ice/
[16:27:22] stpeter bookmarks his own specs :)
[16:28:15] <stpeter> sweetness :)
[16:29:45] Lorena joins the room
[16:29:55] <Lorena> hi there
[16:30:06] <stpeter> hi Lorena
[16:30:27] <stpeter> welcome back :)
[16:30:34] <Lorena> stpeter thanks
[16:31:02] <Lorena> where are the others
[16:32:14] <Lorena> hello
[16:32:19] <smoku> mridul, AFAIK it's mission-control/telepathy client
[16:33:13] <mridul> smoku: i was going through nokia site - almost no details ... though some reviews mentioned xmpp support, still had no idea if it was a regular xmpp client, or xep124 or some other custom variant. thanks for clarifying
[16:33:29] <Lorena> bye
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[16:34:21] <smoku> mridul, ask google for "nokia mission conrol" :)
[16:34:28] Lorena leaves the room
[16:34:41] <mridul> should know it is mission control ;)
[16:34:51] <smoku> second hit:
[16:35:03] <smoku> Gentoo-Portage - net-im/telepathy-mission-control
net-im/telepathy-mission-control. Nokia's implementation of a Telepathy Mission Control ... telepathy-mission-control-4.35. ~amd64 ~x86 ...
gentoo-portage.com/net-im/telepathy-mission-control
[16:35:25] <smoku> AFAIR it was created for Nokia internet tablets
[16:35:42] <mridul> created by nokia ?
[16:36:21] <smoku> yes
[16:36:26] <smoku> by nokia for nokia ;-)
[16:36:31] <mridul> :)
[16:36:49] <stpeter> mridul: created by collabora.co.uk
[16:37:24] <mridul> i thought collabora created telepathy ...
[16:37:49] <stpeter> yes they are some of the core telepathy guys
[16:37:56] <stpeter> they also do lots on OLPC
[16:38:19] <mridul> interesting ! i should probably look more into this :)
[16:38:52] <stpeter> mridul: there's too much happening to know about it all
[16:40:26] <TobiasFar> mridul: well..seems i'm too tired to add simple include directories ;)
[16:40:28] <mridul> last time i checked DBus, somehow i did not 'like' it too much, maybe i will find it much more interesting this time around :)
[16:41:05] <mridul> tobiasfar: heh, happens - that is why we have ide's ;)
[16:41:55] <TobiasFar> yeah..to make simple stuff complicated and complicated stuff simple
[16:44:57] <TobiasFar> mridul: is netbeans something like eclipse?
[16:45:19] <mridul> tobiasfar: my opinion is obviously biased in this matter :)
[16:45:45] <TobiasFar> hehe
[16:46:21] <TobiasFar> well..i'm missing one window design in xcode
[16:46:25] <mridul> both are competing IDE's. which grew out of their java root's and now have support for a lot of languages - with a mad rush to add support for all the 'new fangled scripting' languages :)
[16:49:54] <smoku> it's a pity that the telepathy backend is jabber only
[16:50:14] <smoku> maybe with the new loudmouth things will change
[16:51:44] <mridul> while going through the mission control page, i was under the impression that it support sip/simple connection manager too ? (among others)
[16:53:23] <smoku> that's what telepathy is about
[16:53:34] <smoku> common frontend to all messaging
[16:53:44] <smoku> with specific backends
[16:53:51] <mridul> but currently only jabber backend is available ?
[16:53:59] <smoku> no.
[16:54:13] Asterix leaves the room: I'm going to sleep, see you tomorow
[16:54:15] <smoku> all popular IM and VoIP are covered
[16:54:36] <mridul> what does this refer to then ? "(3:17:58 AM) smoku: it's a pity that the telepathy backend is jabber only"
[16:54:56] <smoku> let me rephrase
[16:55:22] <smoku> it's a pity that telepathy backend for jabber network is old jabber protocol only
[16:55:59] <mridul> now i have queries of what is old jabber :) but i get your point
[16:56:02] <smoku> it uses loudmouth library that does not support xmpp protocol yet
[16:56:14] <mridul> yes, guessed that
[16:56:49] <smoku> old jabber protocol is what we call 0.9 version ;-)
[17:00:04] <mridul> pretty soon we will call 3920/3921 as old jabber ;)
[17:21:39] Alex leaves the room
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[17:30:56] <TobiasFar> gn8
[17:30:59] TobiasFar leaves the room
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[17:52:05] <smoku> rather old xmpp ;-)
[17:52:39] <smoku> i am thinking of integrating some scripting language in jabberd2
[17:52:49] <smoku> but cannot decide which one...
[17:53:11] <MattJ> smoku, Lua
[17:53:23] <MattJ> Lua Lua Lua Lua
[17:53:35] <MattJ> smoku, you will become my bestest friend
[17:53:55] <smoku> ain't it have poor support for DB access?
[17:54:28] <MattJ> What are you using the scripting for?
[17:54:54] <MattJ> Lua implements just the standard C libraries, you add your API on top
[17:55:13] stpeter leaves the room
[17:55:17] <elmex> smoku: Lua if you aim for a simple language
[17:55:21] <MattJ> and there are libraries for most things on luaforge.net
[17:55:23] pust joins the room
[17:55:24] <elmex> smoku: Perl if you aim for a mighty language
[17:55:32] <MattJ> and it will add very little overhead to the server
[17:55:34] <MattJ> !perl
[17:55:34] <xepbot> Perl: All the power of QBasic, the readability of assembly, and the flexibility of DOS batch scripting...
[17:55:50] <MattJ> !luarocks
[17:55:50] <xepbot> http://lua-users.org/wiki/LuaRocks
[17:56:04] <MattJ> :P
[17:56:42] <smoku> I am thinking of passing packets to scripts and from scripts
[17:56:58] <smoku> to implement simple services etc.
[17:57:04] <MattJ> Would be great
[17:57:18] <MattJ> I have already written luacomponent, which I use with jabberd2
[17:57:51] <smoku> for example, translator service would require access to the dictionary
[17:57:58] <smoku> possibly in some RDB
[17:58:18] <smoku> so it has to be a flexible language
[17:58:31] <smoku> with all the modern bells'n'whistles ;-)
[17:59:09] <MattJ> http://luaforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=68
[17:59:14] pust leaves the room
[17:59:28] <MattJ> Lua is flexible :)
[18:00:28] <MattJ> !do function isFlexible() return (flexible and "Yes!") or "No :("; end
[18:00:28] <xepbot> Done :)
[18:00:36] <MattJ> !isFlexible
[18:00:36] <xepbot> No :(
[18:00:42] <MattJ> !do flexible = true
[18:00:42] <xepbot> Ok
[18:00:46] <MattJ> !isFlexible
[18:00:46] <xepbot> Yes!
[18:01:34] <MattJ> !do isFlexible = function () return "Always flexible..."; end
[18:01:35] <xepbot> Ok
[18:02:14] <smoku> nice
[18:02:20] <smoku> show me some example of XML handling in Lua
[18:02:34] <MattJ> No, that's not so nice :P
[18:02:49] <smoku> ouch
[18:02:57] <elmex> !PenisIsHard
[18:02:58] <MattJ> Seriously, think again about XML parsing in a scripting language
[18:03:15] smoku was hoping for something as cool as Groovy XML interface
[18:03:42] <smoku> MattJ, look how Groovy handles XML
[18:03:45] <smoku> pure pleasure
[18:03:51] <MattJ> I'm looking
[18:04:08] <elmex> http://search.cpan.org/~kmacleod/XML-Grove-0.46alpha/
[18:04:19] <elmex> there is your groovy xml handling :-)
[18:04:37] <elmex> (xml handling in perl sucks)
[18:05:31] <smoku> http://groovy.codehaus.org/Reading+XML+using+Groovy%27s+XmlParser
[18:08:02] <MattJ> Doesn't look /that/ nice
[18:08:05] <MattJ> ^^
[18:08:32] <MattJ> Those are your choices for Lua: http://luaforge.net/search/?type_of_search=soft&words=XML&Search=Search
[18:09:59] <smoku> MattJ, XPath-like queries built in the language aren't nice? :>
[18:10:05] <smoku> so what is? ;-)
[18:12:53] <MattJ> Hmm, could be done with Lua metatables
[18:34:57] Zogg leaves the room
[19:13:14] <smoku> MattJ, I'm convinced. Let's Lua :)
[19:13:44] <MattJ> \o/
[19:14:11] <MattJ> smoku, I'll back you every step of the way :D
[19:14:41] sjr leaves the room
[19:16:08] <MattJ> But for now, bedtime :)
[19:16:12] <MattJ> Good night
[19:18:08] MattJ leaves the room
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