Logs for jdev

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[07:59:38] <Tobias> <presence type='error' to='tm@ayena.de' from='foobla@gmail.com'><error type='modify' code='302'><gone xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-stanzas'/></error></presence><r xmlns='urn:xmpp:sm:2'/>
[08:00:20] <Zash> ?!
[08:01:04] <Tobias> that's what i got when subscribing to a user that switched to hangout
[08:04:17] <Zash> subscribing? as opposed to probing?
[08:04:37] <Tobias> no..initial subscribing
[08:05:21] * Guus joined the chat.
[08:11:22] <Zash> While they are online in hangouts?
[08:13:11] <Zash> If not, it would imply that the acounts change somehow.
[08:21:21] <Tobias> yup..while they are online in hangouts
[08:27:49] <Beanow_> Hm, so s2s is not fully closed yet. Just for subscribing?
[08:28:43] <Tobias> don't kow..didn't try to send them anything
[08:29:50] * test12 joined the chat.
[08:29:51] <vorner> Yes, s2s is still open and works to the old-style talk clients. I still talk to few friends with gmail domain.
[08:30:30] * test12 left the chat.
[08:31:13] <Beanow_> Yeah that works I know, but for those that switched?
[08:31:18] <Beanow_> If you already subscribed,
[08:32:34] <vorner> I have no idea there ☹. I have no idea who switched.
[08:33:37] <vorner> Most people I know just curse google for the move. Yet, it is not easy to persuade them to switch providers (one was easy, as she has her own domain hosted by google, so the migration can go invisible to her contacts, but the rest is not so lucky)
[08:35:32] <Beanow_> Yeah, same here. But every one of them counts. Since all of their contacts will notice.
[08:36:27] <vorner> I'm not really good in persuading people, though :-|. We need marketting people, not only programmers.
[08:37:16] <Alex> vorner: I agree
[08:48:00] <vorner> But I noticed it should be possible to create somewhat similar interface with opensource stuff only. With owncloud, you can integrate webmail app (roundcube) and there's a plugin for a chatting window on top of XMPP too. But they are being reviewed, so I couldn't download them yet.
[08:50:49] <Beanow_> Have you used owncloud?
[08:51:24] <Zash> vorner: Got a link for those plugins?
[08:52:19] <vorner> Beanow_: I'm experimenting with it little bit. Once I make it nice and working, I may create few screenshots. I want to offer it to my friends, so they would be more willing to move.
[08:52:53] <Beanow_> I used it for a few things and it didn't work very well at all for me.
[08:53:18] <vorner> It's slow, to be sure.
[08:53:38] <Beanow_> Terribly slow, first thing to notice yeah
[08:54:03] <Beanow_> The dropbox-like syncing filled 3 of my hardrives completely with conflicts while no files were changed.
[08:54:25] <Beanow_> Contacts over CalDAV is just, utterly broken.
[08:54:32] <vorner> Zash: sorry, not now. It seems I managed to lock myself out of the admin account. And the link is there.
[08:54:37] <Beanow_> I could change a contact once and then it was impossible to edit something.
[08:54:46] <vorner> Beanow_: I don't use the files sync. But the contacts and calendar seem to work for me.
[08:55:12] <vorner> That sounds like a bug in Korganizer I reported once.
[08:55:14] <Beanow_> If it's only for the contacts and calendar, you can probably find something 10x as fast :P
[08:55:33] <Beanow_> Main issue I'm experiencing is protocol support.
[08:55:35] <vorner> I used radicale. But that doesn't have the web UI
[08:55:44] <Beanow_> I want it on my android.
[08:55:58] <Beanow_> CardDAV is barely supported even through apps.
[08:56:18] <Beanow_> Not a whole lot else to use out there afaik.
[08:56:22] <vorner> I have some CardDAVSync or what it is. It integrates into the built-in contacts manager.
[08:56:41] <Beanow_> Yes, I do to, but it's one way even though it says it's two-way.
[08:56:54] <Beanow_> My contacts manager refuses to show any fields to edit.
[08:57:21] <Beanow_> While it does for my google account.
[08:58:05] <vorner> There's a check-box to allow two-way sync.
[08:58:11] <vorner> At least in my version.
[08:58:17] * Tobias left the chat.
[08:58:48] <Beanow_> Yeah in mine it has the checkbox too, but it doesn't enable the editing fields.
[08:59:12] <vorner> Hmm.
[08:59:19] <Beanow_> Anyhow, that's just my experience :P
[08:59:26] <Beanow_> I was quite surprised though
[08:59:32] <Beanow_> Owncloud seems to have a big community
[08:59:32] <vorner> I might have too old android to lock me out of the edit fields O:-)
[08:59:46] <Beanow_> I didn't expect it to be this slow and buggy.
[08:59:55] <Beanow_> Lol yes
[09:00:04] <Beanow_> Lock-ins are progress!
[09:00:15] <Beanow_> Lock all the things
[09:00:51] <Beanow_> Anyway, I'm going to get back to some work.
[09:00:57] <Beanow_> Maybe it works better for you :]
[09:01:44] * Tobias joined the chat.
[09:02:47] <vorner> Well, I can't say it works flawlessly. But it kind of works.
[09:03:50] <Beanow_> It works kind of badly. I do PHP dev, it should be possible to do this a whole lot better.
[09:04:07] <Beanow_> I came across this a while back too http://baikal-server.com/
[09:04:13] <Beanow_> Didn't get to properly test it yet,
[09:04:33] <Beanow_> Looks a whole lot better in code.
[09:05:12] <Beanow_> It's not built as a framework to expand with chat and email or anything like that,
[09:05:23] <Beanow_> But it does use a framework, so nothing is going to stop you from doing that.
[09:05:56] <Zash> Is there a non-PHP server for such things?
[09:06:08] <Zash> Or do I have to write one as a prosody plugin?
[09:06:20] <vorner> Zash: radicale is python. But as I said, there's no web interface for it.
[09:06:28] <Beanow_> I'm certain there are.
[09:06:29] <vorner> It's just pure caldav/carddav.
[09:07:13] <Link Mauve> vorner, you then just need a web interface that can speak caldav/carddav.
[09:07:24] <Link Mauve> I don’t see why it would need to be integrated in the server.
[09:07:51] <Beanow_> Quick search on launchpad gave me this: https://syncevolution.org/
[09:08:04] <Zash> How I wish that (cal|card)dav worked on plain(-er) webdav
[09:08:33] <Beanow_> How I wish that it were a more accessible protocol.
[09:08:54] <Zash> PubSub!
[09:08:59] <Link Mauve> (cal|card)dav over PubSub! \o/
[09:09:17] <Zash> There was that HTTP over XMPP thing ...
[09:09:20] <vorner> That'd be called calsub and cardsub, surely ;-)
[09:09:30] <Beanow_> Would be nice, but still you'll have to have a client that speaks cal|card DAV
[09:09:56] <Beanow_> Which does contain quite a bit of logic.
[09:10:08] <Zash> There's an XML format defined for vCard4. I don't remember if there was for ical
[09:10:24] <Beanow_> There is xCal
[09:10:30] <Beanow_> Only used in Thunderbird afaik.
[09:10:50] <Zash> Thunderbird has XMPP already ... ;)
[09:11:23] <Beanow_> Yeah, but cal|card syncing over XMPP?
[09:12:42] <Zash> PubSub all the things!
[09:13:17] <vorner> I don't know if it would work. I guess there's some fun when merging changes (one client changes the start time of event, the other the end time, so what happens).
[09:13:40] <vorner> PubSub is just to store the stuff and notify others it changed. Which is good thing, but there still can be race conditions.
[09:14:11] <Zash> Myeah.
[09:16:19] <Beanow_> I'm sure studying caldav you can find most of those things worked out already.
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[20:04:23] <Niek Bergman> Thunderbird has XMPP?
[20:05:41] <Zash> It does.
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