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[10:40:08] <dwd> http://blog.nikhilism.com/2013/05/your-jabber-id-as-your-persona-identity.html
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[18:31:02] <ralphm> Interesting developments there at Google I/O
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[19:20:15] <dwd> Is there anything on the XMPP side worth knowing?
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[19:25:46] <ralphm> Google Hangouts is no longer based on XMPP
[19:26:05] <ralphm> and the general view seems to be that they might also drop it in gtalk
[19:26:40] <dwd> Well, that's annoying.
[19:27:27] <ralphm> http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/15/4318830/inside-hangouts-googles-big-fix-for-its-messaging-mess
[19:27:42] <ralphm> I'm not entirely clear on them actually dropping xmpp support entirely
[19:28:21] <ralphm> http://display.ik.nu/xmpp
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[19:29:13] <vorner> Will they support it at least on s2s?
[19:29:51] <ralphm> see, that's what I can't tell from this document
[19:29:58] <ralphm> I'm not actually at Google I/O
[19:30:09] <dwd> Woah. They helped pioneer XMPP, they say? They helped lend it some credibility, but they hardly pioneered.
[19:30:51] <ralphm> and even more, hardly cooperated with the community, with the exception of Jingle, maybe.
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[19:32:06] <vorner> Google is indeed going to be an evil empire :-|
[19:32:20] <ralphm> Not sure about that
[19:32:57] <ralphm> but calling out other companies about interop is not cool if they actually are dropping XMPP support
[19:33:28] <dwd> Right, but the interop thing is not a two way street.
[19:37:01] <ralphm> I mean that Google called out other companies on interop (on other things) in the keynote
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[19:43:45] <ralphm> apparently, google app engine is also dropping support
[19:45:05] <Tobias> dwd, what do you mean with that?
[19:52:05] <psa> interesting reading
[19:55:07] <psa> and yes, I agree with Tobias: interop is a two-way street
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[19:56:18] <Tobias> psa, you agree with my question? :)
[19:56:34] <psa> Tobias: I agree with the premise behind your question :-)
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[19:59:07] <Tobias> heh :) doesn't really make sense for them to drop it....at least s2s wise...c2s wise okay...for phone and web there might be better protocols which they could use
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[19:59:31] <Tobias> but then again google chrome sync and android m2m messaging are also based on some kind of XMPP
[19:59:46] <psa> https://twitter.com/stpeter/status/334759927186866176
[20:03:29] <Tobias> psa, seems the HTTPbis WG is doing an interim meeting direct in front of my door in august ^^
[20:04:04] <psa> Tobias: stop by and say hello ;-)
[20:04:31] <Tobias> you have a great view from the adobe offices
[20:05:14] <dwd> psa, I'd have thought so, but a lot of these large companies see interop as a thing you do with them, not the other way around.
[20:05:48] <psa> dwd: indeed
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[20:08:46] <Tobias> it'll sure be easier for them..implementing a different APIs for each platform
[20:08:56] <psa> heh "migueldeicaza @stpeter I bet you 99.99% of XMPP users were Google Talk ones."
[20:10:26] <dwd> A very high percentage of email users use gmail and Google Apps, too. Should Google ditch SMTP?
[20:11:47] <Tobias> heh
[20:11:50] <psa> good point
[20:12:50] <dwd> Also, we don't yet know if this affects both C2S and S2S. If it's C2S, there's a lot of apps and possibilities suddenly ditched - no more e2e encryption over your gtalk, for instance.
[20:13:21] <dwd> Or I least, *I* don't yet know. Maybe they've announced it in detail and I missed it.
[20:14:22] <ralphm> I have been trying to find literal transcripts
[20:14:25] <ralphm> no luck yet
[20:14:50] <psa> dwd: are you on that Twitter thing?
[20:14:55] <dwd> psa, Nope.
[20:14:58] <psa> ok
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[20:15:06] <Tobias> he also dropped that http thing ^^
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[20:15:41] <dwd> psa, I'm tempted to give up and try it. I'm on G+, after all, and LinkedIn, and countless other silos.
[20:15:45] <psa> dwd: I stole your comment, then :P
[20:15:56] <ralphm> and IMAP of course
[20:15:59] <dwd> psa, Sure. I'll let you be my Twitter secretary.
[20:16:03] <psa> heh
[20:16:12] <dwd> ralphm, They implement about half of IMAP.
[20:16:30] <ralphm> only one half to drop than, nice.
[20:16:34] <ralphm> then
[20:16:41] <dwd> ralphm, So IMAP was the first "push" protocol, in many respects, and that's the bit they don't bother with.
[20:17:23] <ralphm> of course
[20:19:56] <psa> I love display.ik.nu
[20:21:18] <ralphm> psa: :-)
[20:21:34] <ralphm> also, don't bother debating things with miguel
[20:22:30] <psa> ralphm: yeah, I know
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[20:26:14] <Lance> when does all of this go live?
[20:26:17] <Tobias> ralphm, although the guy in the video mostly says that they're moving forward with new features using their own platform and not the xmpp standard...and well nobody ever exepected them to implement that much more XMPP client features in their web platform
[20:29:07] <Lance> stpeter: soo.. back to building transport gateways?
[20:29:19] <stpeter> heh
[20:29:22] <stpeter> perhaps
[20:29:35] <stpeter> federation to Google Talk still works AFAICS
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[20:29:47] <stpeter> but with the new Hangouts they seem to be building a silo
[20:30:06] <stpeter> now, that seemed to be true in 2005 when they launched Talk, too, but they didn't have any s2s code in those days
[20:30:39] <Alex> yup, shutting down federation and building a new silo is what I first thought when reading this
[20:30:52] <Tobias> right....and hangouts is more a g+ feature.....facebook doesn't have any federation either :)
[20:30:55] <stpeter> Lance: it seems to be live now -- at least I've seen reports of people testing out the federation aspects
[20:31:06] <stpeter> silos are the future, man!
[20:31:31] <Tobias> yeah..we should all get into farming :)
[20:31:59] <stpeter> heh
[20:32:38] <Alex> silos of beer
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[20:44:29] <ralphm> Tobias: it would have been cool if they had continued building it on top of XMPP
[20:44:51] <ralphm> of course, it would also have been cool if they interacted with the outside world more
[20:46:44] <Alex> ralphm: I agree
[20:48:14] <Tobias> yeah... cool yes...but profitable?
[20:54:57] <ralphm> it might be
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[21:04:34] <Lance> MattJ, stpeter: for jidprep, would an identity of component/jidprep work?
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[21:08:22] <MattJ> Sounds fine to me
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[21:10:38] <Lance> ok. I'll go with that and we can change it if someone complains later
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[21:27:34] <stpeter> WFM
[21:28:09] <Lance> stpeter: http://legastero.github.io/customxeps/extensions/jidprep.html
[21:30:06] <stpeter> great, thanks
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[22:23:10] <Lance> is there an easy way to search the mailing list archives?
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[22:25:35] <stpeter> hmm
[22:25:41] <stpeter> markmail? ;-)
[22:29:34] <stpeter> bbl
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[22:48:23] <ralphm> "Talk was another, but it was based on an old standard that predated the advent of cloud computing." -- Nikhyl Singhal, Google Director of real-time communications.
[22:48:33] <ralphm> just wow
[22:49:31] <bear> what stream is that on?
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[22:50:24] <ralphm> that is in the same article on the Verge
[22:50:41] <ralphm> http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/15/4318830/inside-hangouts-googles-big-fix-for-its-messaging-mess
[22:51:20] <bear> ah - I had to close my browser and stop reading
[22:51:20] <ralphm> and as stpeter mentioned on Twitter, we can do away with HTTP just the same
[22:51:33] <bear> I need to go fav and retweet that
[22:52:11] <ralphm> https://twitter.com/liotier/status/334793542083952640
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[22:56:55] <Lance_> considering SPDY, that's not too far from the truth
[22:57:38] <bear> on one of the dev i/o streams they are talking about google volley - a library for "fast networking" for android - RPC based
[22:58:14] <ralphm> yeah, mixed messages. a pun if there ever was one
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[23:33:41] <ralphm> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5714557
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[23:52:05] <ralphm> Lance my man, we typed mostly the same thing at the same time!
[23:52:11] <Lance> haha
[23:52:33] <Lance> then i'll let you answer the 'is xmpp async' one :p
[23:53:08] <ralphm> well, I couldn't think of anything else than 'yes'
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