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[08:55:51] <Beanow> Hello all.
[08:56:42] <Kev> Hello.
[09:00:35] <Beanow> I'm pretty new to the XMPP scene. But am hoping to start developing for XMPP soon. Crash course in Erlang and we'll see what happens.
[09:01:16] <Beanow> I assume this room is not for my newb-questions though so I think I'll sit back and read what the pro's talk about here :P
[09:02:17] <Kev> You wouldn't like to use a sensible language? :D
[09:02:55] <Beanow> Hell yes >.< been developing in C-style languages for years. Erlang just... **shivers**
[09:03:09] <Beanow> But then again, ejabberd looks to be pretty damn solid.
[09:03:11] <Kev> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596521271.do is probably the best beginners' introduction to XMPP. (I'm biased, of course)
[09:04:32] <Kev> Do you think you need to modify the server behaviour? One generally wouldn't need to.
[09:05:18] <Beanow> Probably yes, I'd like to experiment in particular with sharing different kinds of data.
[09:05:25] <Beanow> Like, syncing my calendar over XMPP.
[09:05:31] <Kev> That doesn't need server changes.
[09:05:45] <Kev> You've already got pubsub stuff that is probably usable.
[09:05:52] <Kev> (Or /probably/ doesn't need server changes)
[09:06:00] <Kev> Have a read of the book :)
[09:06:33] <Beanow> I'll have a look, thanks
[09:07:29] <Kev> And if pubsub wasn't enough, you could use your own component or bot and still not need server changes.
[09:08:48] <Beanow> Yeah, I was thinking that the server should be acting as a persistent storage and you'd need it for that. But then again, somebody else probably had the same idea and made some unix deamon available to interface on pubsub already.
[09:09:10] <Kev> Pubsub gives you persistent storage already.
[09:09:16] <Kev> Unless I misunderstand what you mean.
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[09:10:31] <Beanow> Aaah, that I didn't know. Somehow I assumed it was more of a buffer-like storage for the communication only. But it could be used as a persistent database for your calendar too?
[09:11:30] <Kev> Yes
[09:11:46] <Kev> Depending what you mean by 'database' of course - it's not an RDBMS.
[09:12:05] <Beanow> Nah, doesn't need to be.
[09:12:22] <Beanow> If it syncs I'll let the client do search stuff.
[09:13:07] <Beanow> In the calendar case you probably want all the data (that applies to you) anyway.
[09:13:43] <Kev> You might even use pubsub on a JID for this.
[09:14:16] <Kev> Have each person host their own calendar on their own JID, and then you can pull in calendars from whomever you want to see.
[09:14:22] <Kev> Or not, depending what your requirements are :)
[09:15:11] <Beanow> Yes that's pretty much the idea. Though I'd want a public/private flag for it.
[09:15:26] <Beanow> Good place to start to look into it.
[09:15:27] <Kev> Or two nodes.
[09:15:53] <Kev> Have a look at the book, I think pubsub's chapter 8.
[09:16:23] <Kev> It's not going to tell you everything you need, but it's a better way of getting the flavour than reading XEP-0060 will be, to start out.
[09:16:42] <Beanow> Meta question about this. People probably thought if this before. I mean calendars are not revolutionary. What's the best way of spotting what other people are implementing in this regard?
[09:17:03] <Beanow> Since it seems, you only need pubsub for this, I think it wouldn't be an XMPP protocol specification would it?
[09:17:10] <Kev> There was interest in this a couple of years ago, but I don't remember if it went anywhere.
[09:17:28] <Kev> You can look at the list of XEPs as a fair way of seeing what people are trying to do.
[09:17:36] <Kev> http://xmpp.org/extensions/
[09:17:58] <Tobias> not all things are worth squeezing into the pubsub model
[09:18:06] <Kev> No.
[09:18:19] <Kev> But you want to understand the pubsub model first, before deciding to do something different.
[09:18:33] <Tobias> right
[09:19:05] <Beanow> Something else I'm thinking about.
[09:19:12] <Beanow> I've got Xabber on my android right,
[09:20:27] <Beanow> So I've got one service already doing the listening. If other applications want to listen in on the same stream, it would be great to use the same handle rather than running another service listening to the same account.
[09:20:35] <Beanow> 'Cuz, battery life.
[09:21:31] <Beanow> Do you know of android setups that use a generic listener for your account and let multiple app's subscribe?
[09:21:46] <Kev> I don't know much about Android, and I don't know of any such service.
[09:22:33] <Steven Lloyd Watkin> xabber is open source now, you could always get involved with the code to do this, or make a suggestion to the team?
[09:22:54] <Kev> As long as it's not using Smack underneath - then it's probably not worth the pain :D
[09:23:03] <Beanow> Yeah, I think I'll drop in with them.
[09:24:05] <Beanow> Well, plug-ins for Xabber would be one thing. But Android has these cool intention to abstract these things away. So, just guessing if that's being used yet.
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[09:29:14] <Beanow> Anyhow, XMPP, very exciting technology. +1 for everyone here :D
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[09:41:14] <Beanow> Hm, operators@conference.jabber.org is kinda unmanned. Is it alright to ask administrative things here?
[09:42:11] <Kev> I think the operators room fell completely out of use.
[09:42:39] <Kev> Yes, I'd have thought asking some admin stuff in here was fine.
[09:45:03] <Beanow> For example, getting filetransfers working between gtalk and ejabberd hosted accounts.
[09:46:31] <Kev> File transfer is peer to peer, only the negotiation goes over the stream, so the servers should have little bearing in this.
[09:47:59] <Beanow> Yes, so I would asume 90% of getting this to work is about having clients that are compatible with each other. But atm Pidgin (Gtalk account) to Pidgin (ejabberd account) isn't working for my server.
[09:48:22] <Kev> Is your network sufficiently friendly that whatever NAT traversal Pidgin uses will work?
[09:49:21] <Beanow> For the end-clients? Wouldn't want that to matter. My server shows a proxy with disco.
[09:49:42] <Kev> Ah. Then it should really work.
[09:49:49] <Beanow> That's what I thought :P
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[09:52:47] <Beanow> Either way, step up from there. What about the Gtalk official client(s)? Do they implement anything you know of that is compatible with clients at large?
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[09:57:24] <Kev> I don't believe so.
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[10:04:25] <Beanow> Ok. Last question. I'm going to have tonnes of questions along the way. What's a good place to ask them in such a way that others can read back the answers later? Pretty much what stackexchange is. Although XMPP seems to be really small there.
[10:05:56] <Kev> Theoretically this room will suffice, as it's logged.
[10:06:15] <Kev> There's the jdev mailing list too.
[10:08:14] <Beanow> If that's my best bet. I think I'll start answering my own questions on stackexchange as I find them. Since chat and mailing lists are very verbose for archiving purposes.
[10:09:37] <Kev> Maybe I should try this stackexchange lark.
[10:10:48] <Beanow> I think it's an excellent resource. Well formulated questions and the best answers right beneath it.
[10:11:22] <Beanow> Although the community can sometimes be a bit cold.
[10:11:51] <Beanow> But there's a lot of maintenance, so it stays pretty clean and well organized.
[10:13:13] <Steven Lloyd Watkin> Kev: You'll feel dirty afterwards
[10:20:11] <Beanow> Alright, time for work. Thanks Kev for the help!
[10:20:18] <Kev> Enjoy.
[10:21:08] <Beanow> Will do :P
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[22:42:47] <Kasper Nymand> Hello guys!
[22:42:59] <Kasper Nymand> What's the best Jabber server hosting service you've ever come across, which supports custom domains? Price doesn't matter.
[22:49:06] <Minos> yours, then
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[23:07:56] <Kasper Nymand> Hosted.IM?
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