Logs for jabber
[02:29:43] * datallah left the chat.
[03:36:56] * kaspernymand joined the chat.
[03:44:28] * kaspernymand left the chat.
[03:49:51] * kaspernymand joined the chat.
[04:10:30] * KiDo left the chat.
[04:24:00] * ThurahT left the chat.
[04:24:31] * ThurahT joined the chat.
[06:04:40] * pubuntu joined the chat.
[06:07:11] * pubuntu left the chat.
[06:48:47] * ^^adeel^^ joined the chat.
[06:49:50] <^^adeel^^> Holger: .
[06:49:52] * Lastwebpage left the chat.
[06:49:58] <^^adeel^^> Lastwebpage:
[06:51:01] * ^^adeel^^ left the chat.
[06:53:43] * 60lun joined the chat.
[06:53:43] <60lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:43] <60lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:43] <60lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:43] <60lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:43] <60lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:43] <60lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:44] * 61lun joined the chat.
[06:53:45] <61lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:45] <61lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:45] <61lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:45] <61lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:45] <61lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:45] <61lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:47] * 61lun left the chat.
[06:53:54] * 62lun joined the chat.
[06:53:55] <62lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:55] <62lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:55] <62lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:55] <62lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:55] <62lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:55] <62lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:56] * 63lun joined the chat.
[06:53:57] <63lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:57] <63lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:57] <63lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:57] <63lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:57] <63lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:57] <63lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:57] * 63lun left the chat.
[06:53:59] * 64lun joined the chat.
[06:53:59] <64lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:59] <64lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:59] <64lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:59] <64lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:59] <64lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:53:59] <64lun> /me .
:-D
/¦\
/ \
:-)
/¦\
/ \
Friendz@conference.jabber.org
[06:54:01] * 64lun left the chat.
[06:59:38] * nomadofnorad left the chat.
[07:41:08] * Lastwebpage joined the chat.
[09:25:23] * ^^adeel^^ joined the chat.
[09:29:10] * ^^adeel^^ left the chat.
[09:30:24] * ^^adeel^^ joined the chat.
[09:32:27] <^^adeel^^> Lolx :-D its starting , n0w see what happened with u :-D
[09:32:40] <Kev> It's very funny, you're a very clever person.
[09:33:21] <^^adeel^^> » <Kev> It's very funny, you're a very clever person.
Realy?
[09:33:51] <^^adeel^^> So to tell u honestly
[09:34:02] <^^adeel^^> 1st time i g0t s0me text fr0m this r00m :-D
[09:34:17] <^^adeel^^> Isnt it ? :p
[09:34:58] <^^adeel^^> And why sh0uld i be no clever :o :s
[09:35:29] <^^adeel^^> U thing its easy to hack google ? Lolx we hacked it 5 times
[09:35:50] <^^adeel^^> And n01 here t0 st0p us with rudeness
[09:36:12] <^^adeel^^> Check my mirr0r at zone-h.org
[09:37:37] * ^^adeel^^ left the chat.
[09:44:41] * 60lun left the chat.
[09:44:43] * 62lun left the chat.
[09:47:40] * sono left the chat.
[09:50:17] <Kev> And back to not being members only again. I'm sure the joys will continue soon.
[10:05:37] * sono joined the chat.
[10:30:44] * naw joined the chat.
[10:59:29] * Neustradamus left the chat.
[11:02:06] * kaspernymand left the chat.
[11:05:47] * kaspernymand joined the chat.
[11:19:55] * sono left the chat.
[11:46:45] * datallah joined the chat.
[13:13:19] * ^pakistani^ joined the chat.
[13:14:58] * ^pakistani^ left the chat.
[13:37:02] * Alex joined the chat.
[14:03:12] * tsk left the chat.
[14:10:53] * naw left the chat.
[14:16:02] * Neustradamus joined the chat.
[14:26:29] * ←η→ joined the chat.
[14:32:18] * ←η→ left the chat.
[15:15:25] * Alex left the chat.
[15:17:42] * Alex joined the chat.
[15:44:48] * Alex left the chat.
[15:46:52] * Alex joined the chat.
[15:52:47] * kaspernymand left the chat.
[15:59:02] * kaspernymand joined the chat.
[16:02:33] * tsk joined the chat.
[16:21:27] * kaspernymand left the chat.
[16:25:55] * kaspernymand joined the chat.
[16:48:34] * Neustradamus left the chat.
[16:49:40] * amjad.kamali joined the chat.
[16:49:41] * amjad.kamali left the chat.
[16:52:22] * nomadofnorad joined the chat.
[16:52:22] * nomadofnorad left the chat.
[16:55:53] * nomadofnorad joined the chat.
[17:18:26] * kaspernymand left the chat.
[17:19:39] * kaspernymand joined the chat.
[17:37:22] <ThurahT> I am all pro freedom and internet access for everyone.. But sometimes..
[17:40:54] <Kev> Quite.
[17:45:49] * Neustradamus joined the chat.
[17:46:31] * Neustradamus left the chat.
[17:48:09] * Neustradamus joined the chat.
[17:57:28] * kaspernymand left the chat.
[17:59:19] * kaspernymand joined the chat.
[18:00:15] * datallah left the chat.
[18:00:28] * kaspernymand left the chat.
[18:08:26] * kaspernymand joined the chat.
[18:25:29] * kaspernymand left the chat.
[18:33:24] * darkrain left the chat.
[18:33:28] * darkrain joined the chat.
[18:48:44] * sono joined the chat.
[18:50:46] * kaspernymand joined the chat.
[19:00:29] * sono left the chat.
[19:00:43] * sono joined the chat.
[19:26:00] * kaspernymand left the chat.
[19:28:35] * naw joined the chat.
[19:28:36] * kaspernymand joined the chat.
[19:30:34] * PaulFertser joined the chat.
[19:46:05] <PaulFertser> http://www.fsf.org/blogs/sysadmin/google-backslides-on-federated-instant-messaging-on-purpose meh
[19:56:08] * quantum_goldfish joined the chat.
[20:06:31] <Kev> I don't think it's as bad as people are making out.
[20:06:56] <PaulFertser> Reading that thread makes me sad a bit. Spam again, now on this new medium.
[20:07:01] <Kev> They said they were having serious spam issues, so they put in the quickest fix they could, and that they intend to fix it
in a better way.
[20:07:17] <PaulFertser> What's bad is that Google does first, talks to the users and the community later post-factum.
[20:07:18] <Kev> As long as you take it on face value, that seems like a very sensible approach.
[20:07:32] <Kev> I don't agree that that's bad.
[20:07:49] <Kev> Their first move being maintaining service for the users seems right, to me.
[20:07:55] <PaulFertser> You're pragmatic, heh :)
[20:13:06] <PaulFertser> Their move looks selfish to me: they sort of isolated their own users deciding that's better for everybody to have semi-broken
federation than to have some spam. So even their users didn't have a choice to block subscription spam client-side. And they
did that without talking to XMPP-gurus first, without coordinating the effort etc. That doesn't feel "right".
[20:13:26] * vilius joined the chat.
[20:13:52] <Kev> It really is only semi-broken.
[20:14:08] <Kev> Anyone already using it to talk to their friends can still use it to talk to all the same friends.
[20:14:17] <Kev> I'm not saying it's /good/, by any means.
[20:14:25] <PaulFertser> I understand that.
[20:14:41] <Kev> But as long as they hold true to their word that there's a better solution coming imminently, it doesn't seem disproportionate.
[20:15:14] <Kev> I don't believe that I can easily think of a better short-term solution that doesn't involve significant engineering effort.
[20:15:58] <PaulFertser> It doesn't seem they've stated what their better solution would be, it doesn't look like they're working with the xmpp community
to decide on it.
[20:16:01] <Kev> Of course, if this goes on indefinitely without them fixing it, I'll be saying quite different things.
[20:19:17] * KiDo joined the chat.
[20:19:32] * Neustradamus left the chat.
[20:20:20] <sono> Wow so my little rant post on me site was going somewhere in the end.
[20:21:09] <PaulFertser> Fighting spam would be so easy if people actually ignored it, all the time, without ever "clicking". There would still be
some potential for abuse but doing that costs money and would not pay off mostly (while spam is apparently still profitable).
[20:22:16] <sono> I hear it's delicious if you cook it with eggs too
[20:22:59] <sono> or have it as spam musubi
[20:23:03] <PaulFertser> /me is a vegeterian so it doesn't sound anywhere pleasant to him
[20:23:19] <sono> good to know
[20:25:25] <sono> But seriously I'm not surprised that Gtalk went towards that decision in the end.
[20:25:56] * Neustradamus joined the chat.
[20:26:18] <sono> It's not like big G was going to be making money through federated chat, and since they're lately on the trend of quickly
rolling back services to, perhaps, operation costs, this might be one of those things on the chopping block
[20:26:46] <PaulFertser> Peter's idea of every family running their own XMPP server doesn't sound right to me either. That's too complicated and fault-intolerant.
And messing with the certificates, rdns, own domains etc etc. Not to mention some people do use services without any direct
internet connection, via sick NATs.
[20:27:48] <sono> Cut operation costs*
[20:29:05] <sono> I believe that having more small private services open that would be make it better
[20:29:23] <sono> Like whoever has the means and know-how to open service here and there
[20:29:26] <PaulFertser> jabber.org admins do not semi-break federation and probably wouldn't consider it even under the "spam attack" leaning towards
other mitigation methods. But google is different, heh.
[20:29:52] <Kev> sono: More small services just makes spam prevention harder.
[20:30:00] <Kev> And it's not as if Google have turned off federation here.
[20:30:45] <Kev> PaulFertser: If jabber.org suddenly started getting hit by subscription spam in vast quantities, I would consider doing what
Google had done in the short term.
[20:31:11] <Kev> I think I could write a patch for that in 10 minutes and ship it to jabber.org in a couple of hours. Doing anything 'good'
would take days or weeks.
[20:32:11] <Kev> If I had my way, jabber.org would stop federating with any service that had unprotected IBR on it :p
[20:32:27] <sono> Kev: so the bell ringing was just noise ?
[20:33:01] <PaulFertser> Kev: you're so busy with stuff... :(
[20:33:43] <sono> mh well I guess that's alright then
[20:33:44] <Kev> I very much am.
[20:34:23] <PaulFertser> I wonder how e.g. freenode ops manage to avoid having any captchas and registration requirements etc and yet providing a nice
communication medium for everybody.
[20:42:05] <Kev> In truth, I think everyone clambering to get Google to add their server to a whilelist is doing more to hard open federation
than Google is :)
[20:52:02] * Neustradamus left the chat.
[20:52:13] * Neustradamus joined the chat.
[20:58:02] * quantum_goldfish left the chat.
[21:01:03] <sono> Kev: how so ?
[21:14:34] <sono> Kev: actually nevermind I got it: if you white list you're just pushing for a restrictive alternative to full blown "fedding"
as it should be
[21:17:14] <Kev> Right.
[21:18:15] <Kev> It's saying "Lack of federation is OK, as long as /I/ get to federate"
[21:19:19] * vilius left the chat.
[21:20:01] <sono> fair enough
[21:32:14] * darkrain left the chat.
[21:33:36] * darkrain joined the chat.
[21:44:12] * Gad123 joined the chat.
[21:44:13] * Gad123 left the chat.
[21:47:14] * Gad123 joined the chat.
[21:47:22] * Gad123 left the chat.
[21:47:32] * pubuntu joined the chat.
[21:48:50] * Gad123 joined the chat.
[21:53:09] * minnie joined the chat.
[21:53:20] * Gad123 left the chat.
[21:53:53] * Gad123 joined the chat.
[21:53:59] * Gad123 left the chat.
[21:57:22] * Gad123 joined the chat.
[21:57:22] * Gad123 left the chat.
[21:58:17] * Gad123 joined the chat.
[21:59:22] * minnie left the chat.
[21:59:28] * Gad123 left the chat.
[22:08:49] * pubuntu left the chat.
[22:09:11] * pubuntu joined the chat.
[22:12:24] * pubuntu left the chat.
[22:32:48] * Lastwebpage left the chat.
[22:43:20] * pubuntu joined the chat.
[22:43:28] * pubuntu left the chat.
[22:46:13] * pubuntu joined the chat.
[22:50:44] * pubuntu left the chat.
[22:52:04] * pubuntu joined the chat.
[23:03:37] * PaulFertser left the chat.
[23:10:28] * Kasper Nymand joined the chat.
[23:12:15] * Kasper Nymand left the chat.
[23:33:20] * kaspernymand left the chat.
[23:33:32] * kaspernymand joined the chat.
[23:34:47] * Z_God left the chat.
[23:40:22] * Alex left the chat.
[23:55:32] * pubuntu left the chat.
[23:57:27] * jabber@conference.jabber.org joined the chat.
[23:57:27] * jabber@conference.jabber.org left the chat.
[23:59:31] * pubuntu joined the chat.
[23:59:50] * pubuntu left the chat.
[00:00:32] * jabber@conference.jabber.org joined the chat.
[00:01:25] * pubuntu joined the chat.