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[10:45:21] <dwd> Tobias, You about?
[10:52:04] <Tobias> yup
[10:53:47] <dwd> So, one of the benefits of not having a formal computer science education is that I can ask what a DHT is and how one uses one without feeling *too* stupid.
[10:55:00] <Tobias> a distributed hash table...so the contents of that hash table aren't all at one place
[10:55:42] <Tobias> and i find it hard to believe that you've not heard of it before
[10:55:47] <Tobias> :)
[10:57:13] <Tobias> so we distributed (for load balancing, fail over, etc) the lookup database over the participating XMPP nodes (components or servers), the hard thing will be to prevent data poisoning and so
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[10:59:17] <dwd> I've heard of one.
[10:59:36] <dwd> So it's basically a distributed lookup table - but the full data is in the table, not just hashes?
[11:00:23] <dwd> (For years I avoided using hash table sbceause I wanted all the data, not just hashes. Oh, how we laughed)
[11:01:09] <Tobias> right...the data is at the nodes...whether the data for hash A is at the node responsible for hash A or the node responsible for hash A just knows which node has the data depends on implementation
[11:01:38] <Tobias> had 2-3 lectures only on DHTs...but sadly only scalability/performance was covered...not so much security
[11:01:44] <dwd> My worry here is that if servers have access to all the data, then this also means they have the ability to harvest email addresses and phone numbers in bulk. If these are hashed, then there's some mitigation on this.
[11:02:20] <dwd> I'm sure that technically this can work. I'm worried about the implications, and the messages floating around the network.
[11:02:22] <Tobias> right..that's why our plan was to hash (maybe also salt) these
[11:04:24] <Tobias> but it seems to be quite a complex problem...or i can just think of complex solutions to it :P
[11:05:24] <dwd> Yeah. I'm trying to figure out how this can be built to satisfy the requirements without it being able to be used for email harvesting.
[11:06:50] <dwd> For email lookup, we could simply use a SRV-to-service lookup, and avoid the DHT business, making it a fairly simple case of local policy. Seems harder to handle phone numbers.
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[11:07:22] <Tobias> but phone numbers is what's in mobiles' address books :)
[11:07:29] <Tobias> bbiab...need to fetch some food
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[12:04:35] <Jemi> test
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[17:42:21] <Tobias> psa, does webfinger help when you have a phone number and are looking for the corresponding JID?
[17:42:57] <psa> hi Tobi!
[17:43:01] <Tobias> hi
[17:43:05] <psa> well
[17:43:46] <psa> WebFinger is usually keyed off an email address, but it could use any account of the form user@domain such as a SIP address
[17:44:04] <psa> the Waiting List thing I did with folks at France Telecom years ago (XEP-0130) used telephone numbers
[17:44:13] <psa> another approach based on phone numbers is enum
[17:44:30] <psa> hold for URL ;-)
[17:44:33] <Tobias> with ENUM you mean DNS, right
[17:44:45] <psa> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc4979/
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[17:45:10] <psa> WebFinger is at http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-appsawg-webfinger/
[17:45:34] <psa> I plan to get WebFinger running at my VPS here soon so I can play with it
[17:46:46] <Tobias> for arbitrary phone numbers you can't expect them to be a sip address...since the host of te address would need to host webfinger
[17:47:08] <psa> sure
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[17:47:59] <psa> Tobias: as you say, it's a hard problem
[17:48:08] <psa> we need some kind of bootstrapping method
[17:48:11] <Tobias> indeed..we thought about it > month
[17:48:19] <psa> DNS isn't easy for most people, etc.
[17:48:21] <psa> :-)
[17:48:32] <Tobias> right
[17:48:44] <Tobias> DNS UPDATE is still quite hard to use for app developers :)
[17:49:13] <psa> /me nods
[17:50:56] <Tobias> and on mobiles, the contact info present in your address book is the phone number for nearly all contacts
[17:51:02] <psa> ah
[17:51:04] <psa> I see
[17:51:05] <psa> yes
[17:51:14] <psa> this was one of the driving ideas behind the Waiting List protocol
[17:52:56] <Tobias> waiting list only works on same host?
[17:53:00] <psa> yeah
[17:53:11] <psa> it was a France Telecom thing really
[17:53:12] <psa> well
[17:53:17] <Tobias> ah..ok
[17:53:19] <psa> it was also used by a few other providers
[17:53:26] <psa> so it could be federated
[17:56:33] <Tobias> webfinger could help if you have an email and want additional info....but then again that could also be just another hashed key in our system...
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[18:09:35] <psa> true
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[18:18:09] <psa> Tobias: I'll try to look at your document tonight -- no time to really delve into it right now
[18:18:16] <Tobias> ok
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