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[11:07:26] <PaulFertser> Trying to not be too annoying but is there any ETA on resolution of stability issues?
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[12:00:18] <vilius> if that would motivate the staff, I'd very much appreciate you being annoying :)
More seriously though, I understand what a volunteer-driven effort is - basically you get what you get and can be happy with
that or help improving it or go elsewhere to look for more suitable services.
However, the current state of affairs is really not favourable to the users. jabber.org used to be a perfectly usable service
and a popular choice among publicly available services (I'd guess the most popular), that is probably the major reason for
the current load problems. If the current situation has become such that the service will only be maintained at a level suitable
for temporary demo/test cases, it should be communicated clearly to the users. I would, of course, very much prefer jabber.org
to remain the great service it used to be, not only providing a free service, but also helping popularize jabber/XMPP in general.
I think for some users jabber.org _is_ the Jabber.
[12:02:51] <PaulFertser> vilius++
[12:03:24] <PaulFertser> vilius: i agree with every word of yours :)
[12:05:38] <vilius> PaulFertser: glad I'm not alone. :)
The one thing I should probably add is that if manpower is a problem - it should be sought for. I believe there would be sufficiently
technical people in the jabber.org user community interested in helping keep the service running.
[12:06:52] <Alex> we already have a new very powerful machine for the service. And the stability will be fine once the admin have done teh migration
to the new machine
[12:06:52] <PaulFertser> vilius: it's said the problem is because of some old or underpowered hardware but I do not know any details.
[12:07:15] <PaulFertser> Alex: any ETA? Or at least some clarifications?
[12:07:30] <Alex> but a migration is such a big service without much downtime is a challenge. The admins are working on it. So please give them
some time
[12:08:55] <PaulFertser> Alex: hm, that doesn't really explain it, sorry. Migration from one software stack to another is hard. But from one machine
to another keeping the same software, is it really that hard?
[12:10:23] <Alex> PaulFertser: its not that easy if you want no downtime
[12:11:06] <Alex> the admins are all doin this work in their spare time, so please accept that it can take some time
[12:11:41] <PaulFertser> Alex: i get disconnections about ten times a day, i think noone would mind several hours downtime.
[12:11:41] <vilius> imo downtime is acceptable. The current state is so unstable that it's basically constant downtime, especially if interworking
with other services (most notably gtalk) is important
[12:11:48] <Alex> we we just had the XMPP summit in Europe where some of the admin participated, they they are probably still traveling
[12:11:57] <PaulFertser> vilius: we agree here again :)
[12:12:16] <Alex> vilius: for me the service works great since days
[12:12:17] <vilius> PaulFertser: the very same second ;)
[12:13:08] <Alex> PaulFertser: I got no disconnects in the last days
[12:13:12] <PaulFertser> Alex: are you on the admin team? Do you want any logs from me that would list all the disconnections?
[12:14:57] <Alex> PaulFertser: I don't administrate the XMPP service currently
[12:16:05] <Alex> PaulFertser: do you have any critical softwrae running on the server?
[12:18:48] <PaulFertser> Alex: well, I consider talking to my friends important enough. And I'm keeping XMPP-level logs from my mcabber since the time
there were those gmail issues (several years ago).
[12:20:21] <PaulFertser> And yes, I do have disconnections, there were several today, and yesterday, and before that, all logged.
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[12:21:53] <vilius> Alex: with my previous long message I tried to make it clear I'm not blaming anyone here, I'm very happy jabber.org exists
and thankful to all the people donating their time to that.
However, the current state is close to unusable. My main use case is communicating with gtalk contacts (that is my workaround
to avoid using proprietary protocols and proprietary clients like skype), which basically does not work lately due to gtalk
blacklisting as Kevin has explained. And I also have several disconnects a day, the minimum being 2. This is a rather severe
and rather old problem that needs solving. Probably part of the problem is that users aren't aware of what is holding the
upgrade back.
[12:28:47] <Alex> They are currently working on a tool for a smooth migration, once this is done teh migration will start
[12:31:51] <PaulFertser> I'd agree on a non-smooth migration without any tools. Who won't?
[12:32:34] <vilius> Alex: that is very good to know. I would still appreciate some minimal publicity, e.g. a simple status update on identi.ca
once in a while, so that interested users would be aware the issue is know, not forgotten, admins are working on it, there
is plan of the solution and constant progress. People like Paul and me wouldn't have to regularly do ramblings like that in
this room. :)
[12:33:46] <PaulFertser> vilius: I think I'll paste all your long messages to psa once he appears, I like the way you express and explain it a lot
:)
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[12:38:00] <Alex> I send a message to teh admin list
[12:38:33] <PaulFertser> Alex: thank you
[12:40:37] <Alex> done
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[12:44:58] <vilius> that was my second disconnect of today. The two first reconnect attempts failed with the same reason: "reason: 0 description:
Server closed the connection"
[12:47:31] <vilius> also, there's noticeable lag (around 5s from sending a message to getting it) in this discussion. Not that this is a problem
on it's own, probably just an indication of the current state of the server.
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[13:15:31] <Alex> no problems here today, also no disconnects
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[13:18:11] <PaulFertser> Alex: do you mean you do not see the lag after pressing enter when you post anything here?
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[13:18:51] <Alex> I see the lag, but thats no problem for me. I can accept it until the migration is done.
[13:19:34] <PaulFertser> Ok
[13:21:40] <vilius> lag is certainly tolerable, but I already have 4 disconnects today with my client reporting "server closed connection". I
wonder if I should tweak any configuration params on my end if others somehow have a more stable connection than I do
[13:22:28] <Alex> does your cleint reply to xmpp pings?
[13:27:37] <vilius> Alex: I'm using pidgin, it should be a relatively well-behaved client. As far as I understand the client pings the server
(which is the usual thing generally) with
<iq type='get' id='purple374be767'><ping xmlns='urn:xmpp:ping'/></iq>
I'll check if there's anything peculiar at the moment the connection drops, but I guess the server just doesn't respond to
ping or explicitly closes the connection due to the overload. Just wondering why I'm so "lucky" in this lottery :)
[13:30:40] <Alex> the server pings the client, when the client does reply it gets kicked
[13:35:59] <vilius> pidgin reports sending the ping iq's every minute, server responds in 4-6 seconds. Didn't notice any server-initiated pings
yet.
Anyway, I assume this is related to the current state in one way or another as I didn't have connection stability issues before
the load issues started. Though, it might be that some defaults in pidgin make this worse, which didn't matter or were the
right thing before.
[13:39:06] <PaulFertser> My mcabber doesn't receive any pings.
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[19:01:08] <KiDo> the server is SO slow :ermm:
[19:01:19] <KiDo> doesn't it need to be restarted?
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