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[13:12:04] <misha> hm, does jabber@j.c.o ban jabber.ru or smth? - can't join it. no response at all.
[13:13:33] <MattJ> Yes, it does
[13:13:46] <misha> you made my miranda crash :(
[13:13:53] <MattJ> :)
[13:14:04] <Zash> j.c.o?
[13:14:14] <misha> is it banned in some specific, not standard-based way?
[13:14:23] <MattJ> No, standard ban
[13:14:23] <misha> c.j.o of course, my bad
[13:14:40] <Zash> Spam?
[13:14:50] <MattJ> Spam
[13:14:50] <misha> last time I got an exception from a ban - is it possible now? :P
[13:15:13] <MattJ> Well the flooding was a while back, let's lift it for now and see how it goes
[13:15:23] <misha> okay
[13:15:54] <MattJ> Try now
[13:18:30] <misha> it works
[13:18:32] <misha> thank you
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[15:59:24] <evilotto> is aim going xmpp?
[16:09:44] <darkrain_> Maybe (fingers crossed)
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[17:36:34] <justin> evilotto: is there any recent news?
[17:37:02] <darkrain_> There was an announced "better" interoperability between AIM and GTalk yesterday
[17:38:59] <justin> url?
[17:39:39] <darkrain_> http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/07/soon-aols-aim-wont-require-a-separate-login-to-chat-with-contacts-in-gmail/ http://www.aim.com/google-chat-changes
[17:45:11] <justin> well aol.com has an s2s server up, so that's promising
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[21:01:50] <Zash> and MS buys Skype
[21:04:11] <Zash> aol has s2s where?
[21:05:08] <Zash> _xmpp-server._tcp.aol.com. 3600 IN SRV 0 1 5269 xmpp.gxmpp.oscar.aol.com. ^^
[21:06:23] <Tobias> Zash: the question is to what hostname do they respond :D
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[21:07:09] <deryni> They send a from on the stream.
[21:07:53] <Zash> Damn, they close it too fast for me to write a stream header in netcat :/
[21:09:04] <deryni> echo "..." | nc =)
[21:09:24] <deryni> Or whatever, I got it last night before I got bored and moved on to something else.
[21:09:38] <deryni> It was some bos. name.
[21:09:41] <Zash> maybe it needs to be from="gmail.ocm"
[21:09:46] <deryni> Heh.
[21:10:05] <Tobias> Zash: could also be
[21:27:41] <darkrain_> If only XMPP didn't have dialback...
[21:30:32] <Zash> SASL EXTERNAL!
[21:30:53] <darkrain_> That's actually the wrong direction for anyone to be able to claim from="gmail.com"
[21:31:07] <darkrain_> Actually, I plan on testing gmail.com.darkrain42.org, and talk.google.com.darkrain42.org, etc
[21:31:16] <darkrain_> (if it's not fully open XMPP federation)
[21:31:24] <darkrain_> see if maybe they're doing strstr, or even strncmp ;)
[21:31:38] <Zash> And give yourself a cert saying you are gmail.com<NULL>.darkrain42.org \o/
[21:31:47] <darkrain_> haha
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[21:32:11] <darkrain_> That shouldn't be necessary, since I actually am *.darkrain42.org, so dialback would succeed
[21:37:58] <justin> it would be neat if they used pure xmpp here
[21:38:03] <darkrain_> +1
[21:38:05] <justin> but i do think there will be a whitelist
[21:38:17] <darkrain_> Which is a shame
[21:38:24] <justin> some brief experimenting showed different dialback results if i claim myself as gmail.com, google.com or googlemail.com
[21:38:33] <justin> vs anything else (doesn't matter if gapp hosted)
[21:38:40] <darkrain_> What did you see?
[21:38:49] <justin> "invalid key" for the google domains
[21:38:58] <justin> "host unknown" for all else
[21:38:59] <Zash> Oh, the uses-full-bind-stuffs
[21:39:20] <Zash> oh, aim still
[21:39:36] <darkrain_> Yeah, that sounds like whitelisting domains. Shame :/
[21:40:44] <Zash> Didn't they do some XMPP experimenting before?
[21:41:19] <darkrain_> http://juberti.blogspot.com/2008/01/aim-xmpp-gateway-is-now-live.html
[21:42:03] <Zash> right
[21:42:38] <Zash> Maybe they'll become a normal XMPP service in some 3-5 years :)
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[21:52:40] <Tobias> so they are using basic s2s XMPP with dialback auth then...just with a whitelist added
[21:53:23] <psa> right, that's kind of what I would have expected
[21:53:41] <psa> dipping their toes in the XMPP waters...
[21:53:45] <Tobias> i think that's pretty good so far
[21:54:04] <psa> it's progress
[21:54:10] <Tobias> sure it would be nicer if they'd completely open up but at least they are already using the right protocol
[21:54:53] <psa> yep
[21:57:22] <darkrain_> And in a way which seems like it may lead to more openness in the future
[21:58:52] <Tobias> yup
[22:00:31] <Tobias> so AIM seems to be a highly used IM service in the US..i guess otherwise google/aim wouldn't go so far integrating them
[22:01:16] <darkrain_> Yeah (most of my friends still use AIM, with a scant few using gtalk)
[22:02:22] <justin> i'm curious about the latest numbers
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[22:03:48] <justin> since moving to the sf bay area 4 years ago, i haven't encountered any aim users. just gtalk and some yahoo
[22:03:50] <Tobias> i think the people i know using aim i could count on one hand
[22:04:00] <Tobias> but that's Europe/Germany...not US
[22:04:54] <Zash> Still pretty heavy on MSN up here, but FB seems to be replacing it for some people
[22:05:11] <darkrain_> Oh, lots of people use FB chat now, that's right. I've been dragged kicking and screaming into that.
[22:06:33] <Tobias> sadly no TLS for C2S on FB :/
[22:06:44] <darkrain_> They turned that on recently
[22:07:02] <Tobias> darkrain_: for everybody?
[22:07:17] <darkrain_> Well, it worked for me, but maybe it was just in the US?
[22:07:18] <Zash> A bunch of my friends got N900s + XMPP accounts somewhat recently tho :D
[22:07:19] <Tobias> ah..right..i just notice that lock in Psi :)
[22:07:28] <darkrain_> :)
[22:07:31] <Tobias> coolio
[22:07:48] <Zash> But does FB have PLAIN over TLS?
[22:08:07] <Zash> /me grumbles some in the direction of Tobias and MattJ for PLAIN-only-ness of verse
[22:08:37] <Tobias> Zash: ahh..right..that reminds me of something..though it wouldn't really solve that problem for FB..
[22:09:08] <Tobias> Zash: no PLAIN there
[22:27:48] <justin> yeah fb supports digest-md5 and not plain. when you first enable your account for xmpp, they ask you to reenter your password so they can hash it
[22:28:35] <Tobias> i bet the hash they already have is SHA-1 of password with some salt
[22:29:00] <Tobias> the SCRAM authentication database hash
[22:29:28] <darkrain_> I doubt it's exactly the SCRAM-SHA-1 hash (which is more than just that -- it's iterated a bit)
[22:29:41] <darkrain_> But hopefully it's a salted hash of some sort
[22:30:23] <Tobias> darkrain_: would be kind of ironic if they already have the correct hash in the db but are going digest-md5 :)
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[22:30:40] <justin> they'd need digest-md5 anyway, for interop
[22:31:19] <Tobias> yeah..interop and digest-md5........
[22:31:34] <Zash> why doesn't any xmpp software do digest-md5 with a hashed storage?
[22:31:38] <darkrain_> They've been around longer than SCRAM. And what justin said. I'm actually happy they're not also supporting PLAIN over TLS (DIGEST-MD5 being generally superior...except for interopreability woes)
[22:31:54] <justin> Tobias: whine :p
[22:32:09] <Tobias> justin: yeah..i'm on it ;)
[22:32:36] <justin> Zash: i made a tigase plugin to do this at our company. but i did think it was odd it didn't exist already
[22:33:03] <Tobias> Zash: because it's interop hell...you'd have to hold quite amount of various hashes..depending on the interoperability you want to achieve
[22:33:04] <Zash> I've only seen httpd's support it
[22:33:48] <justin> we have a pretty cool password strategy. when a user signs up for an account, we make several hashes, and also pgp encrypt the plaintext
[22:33:59] <justin> private key is offline. so if we need to add new hashes later (e.g. scram) we can do this
[22:35:56] <Tobias> justin: sounds interesting
[22:36:16] <Tobias> justin: with digest-md5 only with hash storage...how many hashes did it need?
[22:36:25] <Tobias> that plugin
[22:36:30] <justin> just one hash
[22:36:36] <Tobias> aha :)
[22:36:55] <Tobias> how far did the interop tests go :)
[22:36:56] <justin> but other auth entrances to our system use different hashes
[22:37:20] <justin> uhh it worked with psi. did not test much further :p
[22:37:32] <Tobias> ahh..that kind of interop :)
[22:37:44] <justin> where does digest-md5 fail to interop?
[22:38:17] <Tobias> had some problems with miranda and some other clients
[22:39:00] <Tobias> and then the defaulting to iso1*** encoding in combination with jabber's usual unicode usernames/passwords
[22:40:05] <Tobias> clients don't specifying encoding, specifying wrong encoding, expecting the hash be generated from the unicode password converted to iso*-encoding with some magic algorithm and so on
[22:41:53] <Zash> Some Magic Algorithm™
[22:44:00] <Tobias> but i'll stop with the whining for now :P
[22:46:50] <Zash> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-kitten-digest-to-historic <3 then :)
[22:47:47] <Tobias> yup
[22:47:49] <darkrain_> I thought that was an RFC now
[22:47:56] <Tobias> it is
[22:48:53] <Zash> it is?
[22:48:56] <Tobias> or not?
[22:49:05] <Tobias> maybe i'm remembering wrong
[22:50:05] <Tobias> well gn8
[22:50:11] <Zash> nn
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[22:51:57] <darkrain_> I think it's in last call, or close
[22:52:42] <darkrain_> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-kitten-digest-to-historic/ EDIT = Approved by the stream manager (e.g., IESG, IAB, IRSG, ISE), awaiting processing and publishing
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