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Thursday, January 17, 2008< ^ >
TobiasFar has set the subject to: Jabber DEVELOPMENT (in English) | http://www.xmpp.org | http://www.jabber.org | Logs: http://logs.jabber.org/jdev@conference.jabber.org/
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[05:29:53] <MattJ> > Yesterday [23:02:05] andrewy: the idea is to have multiple clients open and connected to the same jabber account and for messages sent from one of those client to show up on all the others
[05:29:57] <MattJ> Isn't that a MUC? :)
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[05:46:36] <Alex> MattJ: yes it is, but he wants this behaviour for normal chats
[05:47:21] <Alex> if 3 clients are open, he wants the outgong messages in all clients, not sure about the incoming, and no idea why he needs strange stuff like tthis ;-)
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[06:35:21] <tong> hi.
[06:35:47] <tong> fast method to move all acounts from jabberd to openfire (mysql), anyone ?
[06:38:43] <tong> is there a migration tool available, anywhere?
[06:45:32] <Alex> tong: did you look in the openfire forums?
[06:45:59] <Alex> is your jabberd with the flat xml database?
[06:46:18] <tong> ye
[06:46:22] <tong> *p
[06:48:21] <tong> havent found anything related in the openfire-forum
[06:49:24] <Alex> I wrote a converter for this in cä a while ago
[06:49:30] <Alex> c#
[06:49:58] <Alex> lopps thru all xml files and creates a import file for wildfire
[06:50:12] <Alex> there is a plugin where you can import and export accounts
[06:50:41] <Alex> if you are a c# hacker i can send you the source
[06:51:36] <tong> yo, please, fine. ..no windows here at the moment, but i can figure somewhat out.
[06:51:56] <Alex> you can use mono on linux
[06:52:00] <Alex> its a console app
[06:52:29] <Alex> I imported about 500.000 accounts with the software without any problems to wildfire
[06:53:42] <Alex> brb
[06:53:49] <tong> avoided using mono so far. no its time ) .. can you send it to me please
[06:54:07] <tong> ( now its time )
[07:03:04] <Alex> email address?
[07:04:59] <tong> tong at disktree net
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[07:10:21] <Alex> sent
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[07:13:08] <tong> thx a lot.
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[07:44:48] <Alex> no problem, I hope it helps
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[07:59:33] <=smitt=> hi
[07:59:45] <=smitt=> hi all people
[07:59:56] <=smitt=> every body at home? =)
[08:00:52] <=smitt=> киса ку-ку
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[08:01:52] <Pihhan> hello
[08:02:56] <Pihhan> i found some slides on planet jabber
[08:03:50] <Pihhan> and sentence: "Smiley protocol on its way :)" caught my eye
[08:04:30] <Pihhan> dont you know what Adam Nemeth had mean by it?
[08:05:00] <Pihhan> is there smiley protocol defined somewhere?
[08:05:06] <MattJ> Pihhan, do you have a link to this slide?
[08:07:04] <Pihhan> http://adamnemeth.hu/publications/szestek_eloadas_en.pdf
[08:08:01] <Pihhan> http://jabbermania.blogspot.com/2008/01/open-source-nights-presentation.html is the source
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[08:10:02] <MattJ> It could be a referec
[08:10:09] <MattJ> *reference to XEP 38
[08:10:11] <MattJ> !xep 38
[08:10:12] <xepbot> XEP-0038: Icon Styles is Standards Track (Deferred, 2003-06-02) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0038.html
[08:10:16] <MattJ> Which is all I know
[08:10:25] <MattJ> But that is very old, and deferred
[08:10:29] <MattJ> So I'm not sure
[08:11:24] <Pihhan> i seen somewhere something different some time ago, but i am not able to find it
[08:11:59] <Pihhan> something about MSN transport and emoticon distribution
[08:12:40] <MattJ> The MSN custom emoticons have restrictions on their use
[08:12:53] <MattJ> That is why open IM clients don't use them
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[08:14:55] <Pihhan> well we discussed how client should handle emoticons to be interoperable
[08:16:20] <Pihhan> as almost every client have its own set of emoticons, and not compatible often. We have xmpp for interoperable messages, but this thing is not defined anyhow
[08:16:49] <Kev> well
[08:16:55] <Pihhan> for example emoticon handling in Psi and JAJC is very different, you get good results only for classic :)
[08:16:57] <Kev> most clients do support the same emoticon format
[08:17:09] <Kev> and that's the jisp format from 38
[08:17:33] <Pihhan> i dont really care how does that image look like anyway
[08:18:08] <Pihhan> problem is someone send me broken heart and i see bat for instance
[08:19:05] <Pihhan> Kev: that is exactly what Psi does not follow then
[08:20:34] <Pihhan> only way to solve this confusion is sending xhtml message with images included, i dont like the idea too much
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[08:20:54] <Kev> Pihhan: in what way?
[08:21:44] <Pihhan> (F)
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[08:22:05] <Kev> that doesn't really answer the question
[08:22:32] <Pihhan> Kev: i dont know what exactly are you refering to
[08:22:53] <Pihhan> xhtml or Psi not following xep-38?
[08:22:59] <Kev> you said that Psi doesn't follow 38, I'm interested in knowing in what way
[08:23:03] <MattJ> Hmm, neither does Gajim... (F)
[08:23:36] <deryni> xep-0038 doesn't say anything about (F).
[08:23:47] <Kev> and?
[08:23:49] <Pihhan> Kev: section 5.5, core icons
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[08:24:29] <Pihhan> Psi has most of icons included there, but does send different text for them. Different than most of other clients i have seen so far
[08:24:36] <Kev> ah
[08:24:41] <Kev> then that's not Psi, but the iconset
[08:24:50] <Pihhan> ok, default psi iconset
[08:25:02] <Kev> yes, that's quite possible
[08:25:15] <MattJ> That section 5.5 should be managed by the XMPP registrar IMHO
[08:25:30] <Kev> MattJ: the spec is deferred
[08:25:39] <Kev> that means the author abandoned it
[08:25:46] <MattJ> Yes, I know
[08:25:54] <MattJ> But it needs replacing by something :)
[08:25:57] <Kev> it does
[08:26:02] <Kev> I shall not argue with that :)
[08:26:04] <Pihhan> Kev: but no better standard is there
[08:26:07] <MattJ> ie. a register of smileys and text
[08:26:10] <Kev> something hash based would be competent
[08:26:18] <MattJ> Hash based?
[08:26:19] <deryni> I know that at least one of the pidgin developers and some of the Adium people wanted to work on it some, possible also some Kopete people.
[08:26:29] <Kev> I could probably be persuaded to write up some competent spec
[08:26:32] <Kev> MattJ: yes
[08:26:44] <Pihhan> yeah, it is problem amongs clients, not one client faults
[08:26:59] <Kev> MattJ: hash across the jisp, share the hash as you start a conversation
[08:27:12] <Pihhan> i think we should not refer to what image user wants, but what he want to express
[08:27:27] <deryni> Trying to encapsulate intentions/feelings/emotions is a losing battle.
[08:27:28] <Kev> if the user doesn't have their contact's emoticons, transfer and continue
[08:27:40] <Kev> if deryni is saying what I think, then I agree
[08:27:55] <MattJ> Is that necessary? It seems a bit over the top
[08:28:03] <Kev> trying to define that (f) is a flower, but that clients can decide how to render it is on to a loser
[08:28:05] <deryni> We don't want to attach meaning to any given symbol or characters.
[08:28:07] <MattJ> A register would do just fine, wouldn't it?
[08:28:21] <Kev> MattJ: I'm not sure it would
[08:28:47] <MattJ> I don't want my contacts deciding the look of my smileys, and I think most people would feel the same
[08:29:04] <deryni> Not people on MSN, clearly.
[08:29:08] <Pihhan> MattJ: i aggree in that with you
[08:29:09] <Kev> no, I can't agree with that
[08:29:20] <Kev> I think most people would want to see what the sender wanted them to see
[08:29:21] <MattJ> Yeah, I (N) MSN
[08:29:37] <Kev> and there are a minority of us who wouldn't want that
[08:29:50] <Kev> I haven't even got emoticons enabled, and I have xhtml-im disabled too
[08:30:00] <Kev> but I'm quite sure I'm a minority
[08:30:05] <MattJ> I refuse to believe I am in a minority
[08:30:13] <Pihhan> ok, maybe client should allow two modifications: i want to know what he does mean by that symbol, or i allow transfering and i want exactly that symbol
[08:30:31] <MattJ> Kev, exactly... you chose no emoticons (graphics)
[08:30:41] <MattJ> So some client comes up with (hdsjfks) to show a flower
[08:30:46] <deryni> Pihhan: You can't code "know what he means by that" into a client.
[08:30:47] <MattJ> You will have no idea what that is
[08:31:09] <Kev> MattJ: that happens already
[08:31:17] <MattJ> Kev, so that needs fixing :)
[08:31:19] <Kev> I don't see how you can reasonably avoid that
[08:31:24] <Pihhan> deryni: well Core Icons in XEP-38 does define it waguely
[08:31:34] <MattJ> Kev, you can: http://www.xmpp.org/registrar/
[08:31:46] <deryni> Right, you can attach simple alt-text for an image but that's not 'meaning'.
[08:31:47] <Kev> unless you're going to enforce a limited number of emoticons, and that every client implements every one, and no client allows more
[08:32:00] <Pihhan> deryni: what i mean is common emoticons for basic actions
[08:32:03] <Kev> deryni: although that's probably smart enough
[08:32:11] <Kev> that way you can do the emoticon exchange
[08:32:12] <deryni> For the basic set it certainly is.
[08:32:15] <Kev> and just not render them
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[08:32:39] <Kev> so even with emoticons enabled, you still negotiate your emoticon sets in both directions
[08:32:39] <deryni> You don't need an exchange for the basic set, the basic set would be in the spec/register.
[08:32:51] <deryni> Ah, that would work also.
[08:32:56] <Kev> and then you can render the alt text, or the icons, or replacement icons, at will
[08:33:09] <deryni> But I'd want to break out the icon bits into a separate transfer.
[08:33:42] <Kev> well, it can happen transparently at the start of a conversation, can't it?
[08:33:54] <deryni> I don't want to download a dozen smiley images that I will never see.
[08:34:04] <Kev> it's going to be quite rare for you not to have the same iconset as your contact, I'd have thought
[08:34:09] <Kev> because you'll have seen it before
[08:34:13] <Pihhan> no, it cant, as filetransfer is generally problematic
[08:34:22] <Kev> Pihhan: these are small, they can go inband
[08:34:42] <Pihhan> Kev: how much clients does implement such transfer?
[08:34:45] <deryni> I think sending the icondef files at the start of a conversation is a good idea.
[08:34:53] <MattJ> Kev, not all clients are as limited as Psi: http://addons.miranda-im.org/index.php?action=display&id=41
[08:34:54] <MattJ> :)
[08:35:05] <deryni> I don't think always sending the icons themselves is, because as seen by MSN users smileys aren't always small.
[08:35:07] <Kev> Pihhan: anyone who wants to support a spec based on it
[08:35:32] <MattJ> So there is quite a chance you have not seen your contact's icon set before
[08:35:39] <MattJ> .
[08:35:40] <MattJ> .
[08:35:42] <MattJ> LAG
[08:35:43] <Kev> not that big, I imagine
[08:35:58] <Kev> most people speak to the same people over and over again
[08:36:12] <Kev> and the proportion of those conversations that they'll have changed their iconsets for is probably limited
[08:37:10] <deryni> But why require me to get the icons for the iconsets at all? I will *never* see them.
[08:37:19] <deryni> All I want is the alt-text.
[08:37:24] <Kev> deryni: sure, we can allow that
[08:37:25] <MattJ> and I want to see my own icons
[08:37:43] <Pihhan> and we are where we was before
[08:37:48] <deryni> No we aren't.
[08:37:49] <Kev> Pihhan: no, we're not
[08:38:02] <Kev> now we have a way where you can always see the intended smilies if you want
[08:38:04] <Kev> or the alt text
[08:38:16] <Kev> or replace them with your own icons at least as often as you can now
[08:38:32] <Pihhan> so
[08:39:04] <Pihhan> are you speaking about xhtml smilies only, or text-based also?
[08:39:40] <Kev> text-based also
[08:39:51] <Kev> although it can work for xhtml nicely
[08:40:19] <Pihhan> Kev: if i ask you to support XEP-38 Core Icons in psi, would that be possible? if not sending, then understanding it from other clients?
[08:40:29] <deryni> Yeah, this smiley talk is outside of how the smileys are marked or sent in the message.
[08:40:52] <Pihhan> well, not exactly
[08:41:08] <Kev> Pihhan: all it needs for that is for you to use an iconset with the icons you want
[08:41:25] <Pihhan> jabbim authors thought they would include smilies as img tag with http source, so everyone see your icons
[08:42:02] <Pihhan> Kev: but i want the same icons as psi has, only add <text>:beer:</text> to icondef.xml
[08:43:02] <Pihhan> and for other basic icons also.
[08:43:12] <Pihhan> not new images, only new text describing it
[08:43:16] <deryni> Personally, I *hate* the :####: versions of smileys, the all punctuation ones are bad enough to parse out of text, the :: versions are just asking for mis-parsing.
[08:43:33] <deryni> Where do you want to see this text?
[08:43:52] <Pihhan> deryni: do you thing (Y) is better for parsing?
[08:44:10] <deryni> Then the :: ones, yes. Then the all punctuation ones, no.
[08:44:31] <deryni> I should clarify, (####) <- bad, (#) <- ok.
[08:44:42] <Pihhan> i disagree
[08:44:49] <Pihhan> it you turn smilies off
[08:44:50] <deryni> s/ok/less bad/
[08:44:58] <Pihhan> what do you understand by :beer:
[08:45:10] <Pihhan> and what do you understand by (B)?
[08:45:18] <deryni> But that isn't what I was talking about.
[08:45:36] <Pihhan> :something: is more user friendly for non-supporting clients
[08:45:50] <deryni> I never said it wasn't.
[08:46:05] <MattJ> I think deryni would be happy with (beer) ?
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[08:46:08] <deryni> What I said was that, to my mind, it invites more mistaken smiley parsing.
[08:46:09] <Pihhan> also, if i send formula, i would have function((y)/(x))
[08:46:25] <deryni> Yes, parsing smileys out of text sucks.
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[08:46:34] <deryni> Which is what that whole thread about them recently was about.
[08:46:42] <Pihhan> i cant remember in what cases i need :[a-z]+: in normal text
[08:46:56] <Pihhan> okay, the bat is there
[08:47:22] <Pihhan> well if i did my smilie parser, i would allow smiley only between spaces
[08:47:37] <deryni> A lot of users don't like that.
[08:47:44] <Kev> indeed
[08:48:36] <Pihhan> but you need some hint to know what is meant by text, emoticon or part of text
[08:48:56] MattJ remembers IMML
[08:49:07] <Pihhan> i have printing 10:33 asi bunch of smilies
[08:50:07] <deryni> I really wish graphical smileys had never been invented, but that's not the point. =)
[08:50:24] <Pihhan> well yes, it is the hell
[08:50:52] <Alex> Pihhan: i agree, and animated smileys are even worse ;-)
[08:51:00] <Kev> well
[08:51:05] <Kev> they keep the users happy
[08:51:08] <Pihhan> make it little cold by trying to standardise it somehow
[08:51:13] <Kev> and that's what we're here for, right?
[08:51:22] <Alex> Kev: yes
[08:51:35] <Pihhan> Kev: they keep *SOME* users happy
[08:51:38] <Alex> they are a mess when pasting code back&forth
[08:51:52] <Alex> Pandion has a nice solution for this
[08:52:14] <Alex> because its all Java script you can disable or enable them still after the emote parsing
[08:52:49] <Pihhan> that is matter of UI also, how expensive is emoticon parsing deactivation
[08:53:01] <Kev> yes, we've looked at that before, but never got around to implementing it
[08:53:17] <Kev> oh, I have this idea there was some bug or feature in Qt that meant it should work but didn't
[08:53:22] <Kev> but maybe we just didn't get around to it :)
[08:54:23] <Pihhan> Kev: does Qt implement emoticon parsing?
[08:54:50] <Kev> no, why would it?
[08:55:47] <Pihhan> i dont know how it's but could prevent its emoticon parsing then
[08:55:56] <Pihhan> s/but/bug/
[08:56:41] <Kev> if CentOS had a bug that meant X didn't start, that'd prevent it too ;)
[08:56:52] <deryni> I'm assuming the bug was in being able to show/hide the different versions of the icon on the fly.
[08:57:10] <Kev> deryni: I remember we were considering using stylesheets of some sort for it, yes
[08:57:17] <Kev> maybe I was wrong and we just didn't get around to it
[08:57:34] <Alex> Kev: is the chat window using a html control?
[08:57:40] <Kev> maybe Qt4.4 will make things much easier
[08:57:45] <Kev> Alex: no, not in any meaningful sense
[08:58:19] <Kev> maybe it will be after Qt4.4
[08:58:45] <Pihhan> what does Qt4.4 bring so important?
[08:58:55] <Kev> webkit
[09:00:00] <Pihhan> isnt xhtml-im supposed to be easy to implement and very simple?
[09:00:16] <MattJ> heh
[09:00:21] <Kev> only if you have an xhtml renderer
[09:00:34] <Kev> but my desire to have webkit doesn't come from xhtml-im
[09:01:15] <Pihhan> well i dont like idea of having half of web broswer inside my IM client
[09:01:25] <MattJ> Me neither
[09:01:58] <deryni> I don't much mind the xhtml part, it is the javascript part that bugs me.
[09:02:04] <Kev> lots of im clients do it and you wouldn't even notice
[09:02:17] <Kev> it's just that the chat logs look pretty
[09:02:44] <Pihhan> pretty big you meant maybe?
[09:05:51] <Alex> you can still store the logs i a DB in text format and use style sheets to display them pretty
[09:06:32] <Alex> like the Adium styles, this is again something which the users like, like the emoticons
[09:06:32] <Pihhan> i wouldnt like html log
[09:06:51] <Kev> how would you know?
[09:07:01] <Kev> it's just how the client renders your chats onscreen
[09:07:14] <deryni> The Adium styles use html, css, and javascript, as far as I know.
[09:07:34] <Pihhan> ok, as far it is only on screen, it is ok
[09:07:39] <Alex> http://www.adiumxtras.com/index.php?a=search&cat_id=5
[09:08:07] <Pihhan> i hope java script will not ever make it into psi
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[10:34:44] <Kev> 'lo
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[10:41:56] <stpeter> howdy
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[11:42:43] <stpeter> gosh some people have odd requirements
[11:43:07] <Kev> hmm?
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[11:43:58] <stpeter> chatting with this guy who wants some people in his roster to know when his presence state changes to away or xa or whatever, but others must still see him as online
[11:44:43] <deryni> That's what the guy you sent to me wanted, ultimately.
[11:45:13] <Alex> I have seen clients which have this kind of presence notofications
[11:45:19] <deryni> Though he talked about 'idle status' not general status.
[11:45:28] <stpeter> deryni: right, that's the guy
[11:45:51] <Kev> Alex: you have?
[11:46:46] <deryni> It would be 'nice' if we could have a privacy list style server setup for this, but as it stands clients can do it with directed presence changes.
[11:46:50] <Alex> yes, not sure if this is what he means. There are eg plugins for mirands where you can say notify when this contact goes online, or xa or whatever
[11:47:04] <Kev> no, the reverse of that Alex
[11:47:16] <Kev> he wants his presence to only be routed to some contacts if it's away
[11:47:22] <Kev> but to all contacts if it's online/offline
[11:47:23] <deryni> Alex: Not notifying of other people's changes, only notifying certain people of *your* changes.
[11:47:36] <Alex> i see
[11:47:51] <Alex> then he should go invisible and send directed presence
[11:47:52] <Kev> e.g. he wants his boss to see he's hard at work at his desk, while his gf sees he's afk
[11:48:29] <Alex> crazy
[11:48:34] <stpeter> deryni: right, it could be done with a client plugin
[11:48:46] <stpeter> I see this use case as a bit obsessive-compulsive :)
[11:48:47] <Alex> he sould make different accounts then, like Kev :D
[11:48:52] <stpeter> Alex: right
[11:48:57] <Kev> well, not /that/ many :)
[11:50:40] <stpeter> heh
[11:59:46] xepbot leaves the room
[12:06:24] <stpeter> Kev: it's funny to see people in the Psi room already complaining about the inability to log into xmpp.oscar.aol.com ;-)
[12:06:24] Xificurk leaves the room
[12:06:26] vorner leaves the room
[12:06:58] <Kev> yes
[12:06:59] <Kev> 'funny' ;p
[12:07:05] <stpeter> :P
[12:07:27] <stpeter> I wonder if I still have an AOL screen name like petersaintandre or somesuch
[12:07:56] TuX leaves the room
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[12:08:29] <Alex> did i miss smh with aol?
[12:08:51] <stpeter> Alex: 'telnet xmpp.oscar.aol.com 5222'
[12:09:00] <stpeter> we're not yet sure what's running there
[12:09:21] <stpeter> or at least I'm not
[12:10:25] <Alex> a xmpp server with a very lond delay ;-)
[12:10:31] <Alex> connect takes 10 seconds
[12:10:31] <stpeter> heh
[12:12:29] <stpeter> wow, you see some strange things in XML console!
[12:12:58] <stpeter> like this...
<presence from=foo@example.com/bar" to="stpeter@jabber.org/roundabout" >
<show xmlns="http://jabber.org/protocol/httpbind">away</show>
<status xmlns="http://jabber.org/protocol/httpbind">Away</status>
<priority xmlns="http://jabber.org/protocol/httpbind">1</priority>
</presence>
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[12:20:11] <Alex> damn
[12:20:24] <Alex> I'm logged in with my old ICQ account and exodus
[12:21:54] <Alex> 2008-01-17 19:19:34.531] SENT: <stream:stream to="xmpp.oscar.aol.com" xmlns="jabber:client" xmlns:stream="http://etherx.jabber.org/streams" xml:lang="en" version="1.0" >
[2008-01-17 19:19:34.640] RECV: <stream:stream from='xmpp.oscar.aol.com' id='690b7737-8ca2-47f9-9b0e-c36688fe11c6' xml:lang='en' version='1.0' xmlns='jabber:client' xmlns:stream='http://etherx.jabber.org/streams' >
[2008-01-17 19:19:34.937] RECV: <stream:features><starttls xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-tls"><required/></starttls><mechanisms xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl"><mechanism>PLAIN</mechanism></mechanisms></stream:features>
[2008-01-17 19:19:34.937] SENT: <starttls xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-tls"/>
[2008-01-17 19:19:35.062] RECV: <proceed xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-tls"/>
[2008-01-17 19:19:35.062] RECV: SSL status: "before/connect initialization"
[2008-01-17 19:19:35.062] RECV: SSL status: "before/connect initialization"
[2008-01-17 19:19:35.062] RECV: SSL status: "SSLv3 write client hello A"
[2008-01-17 19:19:35.171] RECV: SSL status: "SSLv3 read server hello A"
[2008-01-17 19:19:35.171] RECV: SSL status: "SSLv3 read server certificate A"
[2008-01-17 19:19:35.171] RECV: SSL status: "SSLv3 read server done A"
[2008-01-17 19:19:35.171] RECV: SSL status: "SSLv3 write client key exchange A"
[2008-01-17 19:19:35.171] RECV: SSL status: "SSLv3 write change cipher spec A"
[2008-01-17 19:19:35.187] RECV: SSL status: "SSLv3 write finished A"
[2008-01-17 19:19:35.187] RECV: SSL status: "SSLv3 flush data"
[2008-01-17 19:19:35.296] RECV: SSL status: "SSLv3 read finished A"
[2008-01-17 19:19:35.296] RECV: SSL status: "SSL negotiation finished successfully"
[2008-01-17 19:19:35.296] RECV: SSL status: "SSL negotiation finished successfully"
[2008-01-17 19:19:35.296] RECV: Cipher: name = RC4-SHA; description = RC4-SHA SSLv3 Kx=RSA Au=RSA Enc=RC4(128) Mac=SHA1
; bits = 128; version = TLSv1/SSLv3;
[2008-01-17 19:19:36.531] SENT: <stream:stream to="xmpp.oscar.aol.com" xmlns="jabber:client" xmlns:stream="http://etherx.jabber.org/streams" version="1.0" >
[2008-01-17 19:19:36.640] RECV: <stream:stream from='xmpp.oscar.aol.com' id='cd495cfe-c845-4ebb-a991-c9124d884da0' xml:lang='en' version='1.0' xmlns='jabber:client' xmlns:stream='http://etherx.jabber.org/streams' ><stream:features><mechanisms xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl"><mechanism>PLAIN</mechanism></mechanisms></stream:features>
[2008-01-17 19:19:36.656] SENT: <auth mechanism="PLAIN" xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl">removed</auth>
[2008-01-17 19:19:38.000] RECV: <success xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl"/>
[2008-01-17 19:19:38.031] SENT: <stream:stream to="xmpp.oscar.aol.com" xmlns="jabber:client" xmlns:stream="http://etherx.jabber.org/streams" version="1.0" >
[2008-01-17 19:19:38.140] RECV: <stream:stream from='xmpp.oscar.aol.com' id='c55f768e-e19d-4ff5-9b2f-e2dd8ebfe6c0' xml:lang='en' version='1.0' xmlns='jabber:client' xmlns:stream='http://etherx.jabber.org/streams' ><stream:features><bind xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-bind"/><session xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-session"/></stream:features>
[2008-01-17 19:19:38.156] SENT: <iq id="jcl_1" type="set"><bind xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-bind"><resource>ALEX-LAPTOP</resource></bind></iq>
[2008-01-17 19:19:38.281] RECV: <iq id="jcl_1" type="result" xml:lang="en"><bind xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-bind"><jid>22370502@aol.com/ALEX-LAPTOP</jid></bind></iq>
[2008-01-17 19:19:38.281] SENT: <iq id="jcl_2" type="set"><session xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-session"/></iq>
[2008-01-17 19:19:38.406] RECV: <iq id="jcl_2" type="result" xml:lang="en"/>
[2008-01-17 19:19:38.625] SENT: <iq id="jcl_3" type="get"><query xmlns="jabber:iq:private"><storage xmlns="storage:bookmarks"/></query></iq>
[2008-01-17 19:19:38.640] SENT: <iq id="jcl_4" type="get"><query xmlns="jabber:iq:roster"/></iq>
[2008-01-17 19:19:38.640] SENT: <iq id="jcl_5" to="xmpp.oscar.aol.com" type="get"><query xmlns="http://jabber.org/protocol/disco#info"/></iq>
[2008-01-17 19:19:38.656] SENT: <iq id="jcl_6" type="get"><query xmlns="jabber:iq:private"><storage xmlns="storage:imprefs"/></query></iq>
[12:21:59] <TobiasFar> hi
[12:22:33] <stpeter> Alex: :)
[12:22:37] <stpeter> hi TobiasFar
[12:23:08] <TobiasFar> Alex: what's that? do you have the complete buddy list in your roster?
[12:23:29] <Alex> this is unbelievable ;-)
[12:24:44] <Alex> TobiasFar: yes, complete buddy list is tehre
[12:25:06] <Alex> and presence
[12:25:06] <TobiasFar> wow :)
[12:25:19] <stpeter> heh, nice
[12:25:38] <Alex> use a ICQ UIN and password
[12:25:40] <TobiasFar> finally all my classmates are accessable via xmpp :P
[12:25:49] <TobiasFar> Alex: and sadly a non-psi client ;)
[12:25:56] <stpeter> I wonder if s2s works
[12:26:47] <Alex> i have 1111111@xmpp.oscar.aol.com as my jid
[12:26:53] <Alex> don't think this is correct
[12:27:00] <TobiasFar> hehe
[12:27:05] <Alex> but auth works because its SASL plain only
[12:28:23] <Alex> this are great news ;-)
[12:28:50] <stpeter> no s2s it seems
[12:28:54] <TobiasFar> yeah
[12:28:58] <TobiasFar> disco doesn't work
[12:29:20] <stpeter> well maybe it's a step in the right direction...
[12:29:29] <TobiasFar> seems they'll all switch to xmpp over longterm
[12:29:56] <stpeter> TobiasFar: maybe :)
[12:29:57] <stpeter> brb
[12:31:44] chris joins the room
[12:32:14] <TobiasFar> for sure....and i also think that M$ and yahoo will be the last who switch :)
[12:33:56] <Alex> IM works
[12:34:09] <Alex> my first contact send a response
[12:34:12] <stpeter> TobiasFar: I think you're right
[12:34:40] <TobiasFar> Alex: any other special settings, or why this doesn't work with psi? :)
[12:36:57] <stpeter> TobiasFar: I think you need to turn off all security settings ;-)
[12:37:45] <Alex> TLS is required
[12:37:54] <Alex> supports only sasl plain
[12:37:57] <stpeter> aha ok
[12:38:04] <Alex> should work with Psi
[12:38:28] <Alex> <stream:features><starttls xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-tls"><required/></starttls><mechanisms xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl"><mechanism>PLAIN</mechanism></mechanisms></stream:features>
[12:38:30] <deryni> I can't even get telnet to connect.
[12:38:41] <Alex> deryni: server is very slow on connect
[12:38:48] <Alex> you need a long timeout
[12:41:17] <Alex> still a bit buggy, get presene floods, but it works
[12:43:00] steve-e joins the room
[12:44:23] <stpeter> well it's very interesting :)
[12:44:32] <Alex> it is
[12:45:50] <Alex> we should invite them to our devcon :D
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[12:49:14] <bbodio> hi...
[12:49:19] <stpeter> Alex: hehehe
[12:55:16] <TobiasFar> Alex: hehe :P
[12:55:30] <TobiasFar> Alex: over 5222 or old ssl?
[12:55:41] <Alex> 5222 over tls
[12:56:03] <Alex> should be no problem with gloox ;-)
[12:56:20] <TobiasFar> yeah...but psi, sadly, isn't using gloox :)
[12:56:48] <Alex> wonder why it does not work with Psi, Kev any idea?
[12:57:37] <Alex> the connect to the server takes very long, maybe it gets a timeout
[12:57:53] <bbodio> iris?
[12:58:08] <TobiasFar> psi has nice and detailed error reports :)
[12:59:53] <TobiasFar> it simply says: unable to connect...
[13:00:59] TobiasFar continues working on xmppmon ;)
[13:01:04] <Alex> use exodus if you still own a windows machine
[13:01:28] <TobiasFar> i own one real and three virtual ones :P
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[13:38:11] <sander> ok, Coccinella does not work either: I get an xmpp-stanzas-bad-request error
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[13:56:28] <sander> this is the XML log when I try to connect to an AIM or ICQ account ussing Coccinella:
<starttls xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-tls'/>
<features>
<starttls xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:nl:xmpp-tls'>
<required/>
</starttls>
<mechanisms xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl'>
<mechanism>PLAIN</mechanism>
</mechanisms>
</features>
<proceed xmlns'urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-tls'/>
<auth xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl' mechanism='PLAIN'>MzUzNjk4MjA0QHhtcHAub3NjYXluYW9sLmNvbQAzNTM2OTgyMDQAV3Jpc3RvbjM</auth
<features>
<mechanisms xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl'>
<mechanism>PLAIN</mechanism>
</mechanisms>
</features>
<success xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl'/>
<iq type='set' id='1191'>
<bind xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-bind'>
<resource>Coccinella@blabla</resource>
</bind>
</iq>
<features>
<bind xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-bind'/>
<session xmlns'urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-session'/>
</features>
<iq xml:lang='en' id='1191' type='error'>
<error type='modify'>
<bad-request xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-stanzas'/>
</error>
<bind xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-bind'>
<resource>Coccinella@blabla</resource>
</bind>
</iq>
[13:56:57] <sander> does anyone has XML that should work?
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[13:58:44] <Spike> So... Jabbim (SVN, or maybe non-public dev version, dunno), Psi 0.11 and Gajim (version unknown) are reported to work according to users on jabber@conf.netlab.cz.
[13:58:45] Xificurk leaves the room
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[13:59:15] <stpeter> and Alex connected with Exodus
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[14:02:05] <Alex> sander: posted mine above
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[14:05:16] <sander> Spike: I read above Psi does not work either??
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[14:06:46] <hanzz> question is... 'what aol wants to do with it' :)
[14:06:56] hanzz is now known as HanzZ
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[14:07:42] <Alex> federate?
[14:07:42] <sander> making XMPP market leader in the US I guess ;-)
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[14:08:50] <stpeter> hi grutten
[14:09:00] <HanzZ> it would be nice to use aol network with xmpp :) but i'm affraid that it will be only gtalk related
[14:10:51] Spike joins the room
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[14:12:20] <grutten41213> Hi Peter...
[14:12:37] HanzZ leaves the room
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[14:13:20] <Spike> Well, it would hugely relieve ICQ/AIM transports, even without S2S, if C2S stays enabled...
[14:13:30] <stpeter> Spike: yeah
[14:14:16] <Spike> Let's give AOL guys huge *thumbs up* ;)
[14:15:05] <Alex> (y) (y)
[14:16:01] <Spike> Who found out about xmpp.oscar.aol.com anyway?
[14:17:16] <grutten41213> What's this 'xmpp.oscar.aol.com'? Is it possible to talk with AIM / .Mac accounts using S2S connectivity???
[14:17:18] bbodio leaves the room
[14:17:45] <Spike> No S2S yet, it would seem.
[14:17:54] <grutten41213> Hmmm too bad...
[14:18:17] <Spike> Still, much better than nothing. :)
[14:18:29] <grutten41213> Indeed, it's a start...
[14:18:45] <Spike> If they actually make it useful. So far, it seems not to deliver messages.
[14:18:55] <hanzz> i can't send messages through it
[14:19:01] <hanzz> but offline message arrived
[14:19:20] <grutten41213> I don't even seem to be able to connect to it...
[14:19:56] <Spike> grutten41213: You're not using iChat, are you? :)
[14:20:09] <hanzz> I'm using my own client, so i can't help you :)
[14:20:21] <grutten41213> No I'm just trying to setup a connection from a terminal...
[14:20:33] <Spike> grutten41213: Which means?
[14:20:37] <hanzz> it's slow server :)
[14:20:58] <grutten41213> HanzZ: I'll be a bit more patient...
[14:21:21] <hanzz> :)
[14:21:25] <grutten41213> Spike: from a console trying to connect to XMPP service ports using telnet...
[14:21:42] <Spike> I see.
[14:21:53] <hanzz> it takes 30 seconds to connect on my computer using telnet
[14:22:15] <stpeter> BTW someone told me you need to log in as screenname@aol.com (not screenname@aim.com)
[14:22:59] <hanzz> i'm using 445223432@xmpp.oscar.aol.com
[14:23:05] <grutten41213> HanzZ: timed out on the first ip address...
[14:23:21] <hanzz> grutten41213: this happend to me too :)
[14:23:33] zacr leaves the room
[14:23:33] <hanzz> try it again and then again ....
[14:24:50] <grutten41213> No such luck for me... :-(
[14:24:55] <grutten41213> On both addresses that is...
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[14:25:25] <hanzz> hm
[14:25:28] <hanzz> it works for me
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[14:34:43] <hanzz> well.. messages sending works
[14:34:57] <grutten41213> HanzZ: able to connect on port 5222, no response on 5269 but don't get any response like a discovery or something similar
[14:35:22] <hanzz> discovery doesn't work
[14:35:40] <hanzz> you can get only roster and presences
[14:35:43] <hanzz> and messages :)
[14:35:50] <grutten41213> Ah ack
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[14:37:27] <hanzz> but it delivers only special kind of messages :)
[14:37:36] <badlop> grutten41213: your ichat is hitting me constantly:
<iq from='jdev@conference.jabber.org/grutten41213'
id='iChat_27C147EA'
type='get'
to='badlop@jabberes.org/Tka'>
<query node='http://tkabber.jabber.ru/#0.10.0-svn-20071219#RE6Eilh41sJ1udSJ4lsf4g=='
xmlns='http://jabber.org/protocol/disco#info'/>
</iq>
[14:38:24] <badlop> my client already responded 405 not-allowed several hundreds times, there's no need to ask again and again :)
[14:38:41] <hanzz> well... aol doesn't respect rfc
[14:38:50] <grutten41213> badlop: Bad iChat, bad iChat!! ;-)
[14:38:58] <grutten41213> badlop: anything I can do about it??
[14:38:59] <Spike> http://developer.apple.com/bugreporter/
[14:39:13] <grutten41213> Spike: Haha would that help?
[14:39:18] <Spike> Who knows...
[14:39:25] <Spike> Can't hurt to report...
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[14:40:37] <badlop> let's report the bug:
Bug Reporter Basics
1. Join the Apple Developer Connection
[14:40:46] <badlop> oh, bye then
[14:41:11] <Spike> You usually have to create Bugzilla/Trac/whatever accounts for other projects... ;)
[14:41:47] <grutten41213> Logging in to ADC... wonder whether my account still works...
[14:41:51] <badlop> If you are not yet an ADC member, learn about the various levels of ADC Membership, including free ADC Online Membership.
[14:42:30] <badlop> i'm being hitted by other people's client; the last i want to do i learn about Apple Developer Connection Membership
[14:42:44] <badlop> :P
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[14:47:21] <grutten41213> badlop: is that behaviour caused by the client / iChat?
[14:48:08] <badlop> well, there are 29 participants in this room, and i only get hit by you
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[14:48:51] <badlop> better now
[14:48:52] <grutten41213> Is it still happening?
[14:49:05] <grutten41213> Ah ack, I was already wondering why I didn't see anything in a packet dump...
[14:49:21] <grutten41213> what does this exact statement do?
[14:49:23] <badlop> no problem now
[14:52:48] <stpeter> ok
[14:53:13] <stpeter> I've officially decided that this entity capabilities discussion needs to end :)
[14:53:25] <Spike> iChat iChat... Ah! I know! That little sucker deletes my vCard!
[14:53:36] <Spike> As well as other poor clients. :/
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[15:02:37] <smoku> stpeter, at last...
[15:02:52] Spike leaves the room: V práci
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[15:03:58] <stpeter> hi smoku
[15:04:18] <smoku> hi :)
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[15:21:46] <stpeter> hi Fritzy
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[15:26:39] <Fritzy> Howdy stpeter
[15:26:48] <Fritzy> I was just looking for the latest beef on this AOL XMPP server.
[15:26:55] melo joins the room
[15:27:06] melo bows
[15:27:08] <Fritzy> Any official word from anyone on it yet?
[15:27:19] <TobiasFar> afaik no
[15:27:33] <Fritzy> so all it means is they're playing with the idea.
[15:27:50] <stpeter> Fritzy: I think so, yes
[15:28:00] TobiasFar leaves the room
[15:28:13] <melo> I assume you are talking about AOL xmpp server
[15:28:18] <Fritzy> Right.
[15:28:18] <melo> or whatever that is
[15:28:30] <Alex> melo: yes
[15:28:34] TobiasFar joins the room
[15:28:36] <melo> Add buddy works, vcards don't and i can talk to all .mac account I had
[15:28:53] <melo> using SAPO Msg for Mac nightly here (Psi core)
[15:28:58] <Fritzy> is it federated at all?
[15:29:00] <stpeter> hi melo
[15:29:02] steve-e joins the room
[15:29:05] <stpeter> Fritzy: not yet
[15:29:06] <melo> peter: hi!
[15:29:07] <Spike> Fritzy: No s2s
[15:29:21] <melo> SRVs are all missing in action
[15:29:23] <Fritzy> It's interesting that they'd do this after telling Google to shove it.
[15:29:25] <stpeter> but Google Talk was not federated for the first 6 months either
[15:29:34] <Spike> Who found out? (sorry if I missed the reply earlier)
[15:30:56] <melo> spike: Leapfrog connects perfectly with my ICQ account :)
[15:31:26] <Spike> No, I mean - who was the first one to find out about xmpp.oscar.aol.com...
[15:31:30] <TobiasFar> i can't even telnet atm
[15:32:09] <Fritzy> Florian posted a digg story
[15:32:31] <Fritzy> but I'm a little afraid of what that might make AOL do if it hit the front page and took down their little alpha setup
[15:33:16] <TobiasFar> could someone send and iq:version to the server to see what they are using? :)
[15:33:36] <Fritzy> sure.. let me get sleek going on it
[15:33:38] <Alex> TobiasFar: to me it looks like they wrote an own server
[15:33:56] <TobiasFar> Alex: really? maybe that's why it is so unstable hahaha
[15:34:08] <Alex> It responds to the mosts stanzas with error and i have seen some weird namespaces, eg in vcard
[15:34:37] <hanzz> and message are sent only if contains message event
[15:34:39] <TobiasFar> psi can't connect but telnet does now :)
[15:34:41] <hanzz> *messages
[15:35:01] <Spike> Fritzy: Well, Florian... and how did Florian find out? :)
[15:35:18] <Alex> I told him ;-)
[15:35:48] <TobiasFar> afaik it started in psi's chatroom
[15:35:58] <TobiasFar> @ Spike
[15:36:42] <Fritzy> and how did you find out, Alex?
[15:36:47] <Fritzy> ah
[15:36:55] TobiasFar leaves the room
[15:37:10] <Alex> Fritzy: when I joined jdev this evening Kev posted xmpp.oscar.aol.com
[15:37:18] TobiasFar joins the room
[15:37:23] <Alex> then i tried everything until i was connected
[15:37:36] <Fritzy> :)
[15:37:46] <Alex> because the Psi users were not able to connect
[15:37:46] <Fritzy> well... I'm not getting a response from the server
[15:37:58] <Alex> Fritzy: get none either right now
[15:38:09] <Fritzy> too bad
[15:38:17] <melo> chatstates work
[15:38:18] <Alex> must be busy or shut down
[15:38:25] <Alex> or we crashed it ;-)
[15:38:43] <Fritzy> Hmm... where is that Kev?
[15:38:47] <TobiasFar> i can still telnet, from my server :)
[15:39:03] <Alex> he's away right now
[15:39:03] <Fritzy> ah, it's hanging on a socket connection for me.
[15:39:06] <melo> no avatars yet
[15:39:16] <melo> or at least not vcard-based ones
[15:39:23] <TobiasFar> does someone know if the already logged in icq gets signed out?
[15:39:37] <TobiasFar> or is it now multiresource capable their system
[15:39:39] <melo> tobias: the transport users get a logout
[15:39:48] <TobiasFar> ah..then not :)
[15:39:58] <hanzz> only one resource is supported :)
[15:40:04] <melo> seems so
[15:40:18] <TobiasFar> like it has been always
[15:42:13] <Spike> How did the Psi users find out, then? :)
Gotta find out...
[15:42:22] <TobiasFar> yay
[15:42:24] <TobiasFar> works
[15:43:37] <melo> .Mac accounts cannot login
[15:43:42] <melo> at least not yet
[15:43:53] <melo> but ICQ accounts can talk to them fine
[15:44:10] <TobiasFar> i get a not authorized :)
[15:44:18] <Alex> Spike: join the Psi room and ask them
[15:44:20] <melo> @aol.com?
[15:44:27] <TobiasFar> yeah
[15:44:29] <hanzz> /xmpp :)
[15:44:29] machekku joins the room
[15:44:35] <Alex> and tell us then ;-)
[15:45:03] <Fritzy> yeah, it's not authing me either
[15:45:06] <Fritzy> what's the trick?
[15:45:38] <Fritzy> ah, and it's down again
[15:45:56] <Alex> i use teh_crazy:number@aol.com, and my password
[15:46:02] <TobiasFar> nope...still responding
[15:46:08] <TobiasFar> Alex: does it still work for you?
[15:46:21] <Fritzy> TobiasFar: it was responding for just a minute
[15:46:22] <melo> I'm online
[15:46:28] <melo> scratch that
[15:46:31] <melo> not anynmore
[15:46:38] <Alex> get no connect at all right now
[15:46:38] <Fritzy> do you guys mind if I spam the XML stream in here?
[15:46:39] <TobiasFar> noW
[15:46:39] <TobiasFar> !!
[15:46:40] <TobiasFar> :)
[15:46:45] <TobiasFar> not anymore
[15:46:47] <TobiasFar> :P
[15:46:54] <Fritzy> w00t!
[15:46:55] <Fritzy> I'm in
[15:46:57] <TobiasFar> now again..really stable
[15:46:59] <Alex> http://logs.jabber.org/jdev@conference.jabber.org/
[15:47:11] <Alex> there is my xml stream
[15:47:12] <Fritzy> Works with SleekXMPP without any changes. :)
[15:48:11] <melo> back again...
[15:48:15] <hanzz> yes
[15:48:16] maxi joins the room
[15:48:17] <melo> I think we can call this alpha
[15:48:25] <melo> I think its fair
[15:48:35] <melo> but its an excellent first step
[15:48:36] <TobiasFar> yeah
[15:48:41] <TobiasFar> of course
[15:48:46] <melo> at least now we can connect with an open protocol
[15:49:06] <melo> s2s would be awesome, but as peter said, gtalk took 6 months before opening s2s
[15:49:36] <melo> /idles
[15:50:04] <Fritzy> silly thing spams offline presence.
[15:50:16] <hanzz> aol isn't what it used to be...
[15:50:20] <hanzz> :'(
[15:51:31] <TobiasFar> i hope that they change their Terms Of Usage if they switch to XMPP :)
[15:51:41] <Fritzy> haha
[15:52:42] <niekie> Alex, does it federate?
[15:52:53] <Alex> niekie: no
[15:53:04] <Fritzy> haha, someone set up a FAQ. ;)
[15:53:46] <Alex> niekie: must be a early alpha version of thier server
[15:53:50] <TobiasFar> where?
[15:53:52] <niekie> Heh.
[15:54:09] <Fritzy> in ummm... Peter's blog?
[15:54:13] <Alex> but the 1st step i the right direction ;-)
[15:55:47] ermine leaves the room
[15:56:22] <TobiasFar> Fritzy: or @ wiki.jabber.org :)
[15:56:33] <Fritzy> oh, right... thaaat
[15:57:15] pavlix joins the room
[15:57:45] <Fritzy> http://digg.com/software/AOL_ICQ_are_adopting_the_open_source_technology_Jabber <-- if you want to digg it
[15:58:00] <TobiasFar> i don't have digg
[15:58:04] <niekie> We need more Diggs :P
[15:58:47] <pavlix> hello
[15:58:47] <pavlix> hi Alex
[15:59:33] <Alex> hi pavlix
[15:59:40] <Spike> Oh, I dugg this one already http://digg.com/tech_news/AOL_adopting_XMPP_aka_Jabber
[15:59:43] <pavlix> Alex: niekie told me you could login to ICQ
[15:59:51] <pavlix> Alex: I cannot
[16:00:19] <Alex> yes, you can find my xml log here in the chat log
[16:00:32] <Alex> many others here were able to login as well
[16:01:09] <TobiasFar> http://wiki.jabber.org/index.php/AOL_Alpha <-- if it's wrong there just delete it :)
[16:01:27] <pavlix> Alex: I have Gajim
[16:01:31] <Fritzy> pavlix: works for me. TLS with PLAIN
[16:01:48] <Alex> TobiasFar: StartTLS is required
[16:01:57] <TobiasFar> right
[16:01:59] <Alex> so turn it on
[16:01:59] <TobiasFar> sorry
[16:02:16] <pavlix> Fritzy: you have gajim?
[16:02:23] <pavlix> and did you try ICQ or AOL?
[16:02:32] <Spike> AIM
[16:02:35] <Alex> pavlix: I'm not able to login at the moment
[16:02:38] <Fritzy> pavlix: I'm using SleekXMPP (my own lib) and used ICQ
[16:02:51] <hanzz> Alex: i'm not able to login with kopete too :)
[16:02:57] <pavlix> Alex: ok
[16:03:02] <Alex> I think the servr is down rigtht now, or we broke it ;-)
[16:03:13] <Fritzy> my connection is still up
[16:03:19] <Fritzy> but that doesn't mean it's currently accepting new ones.
[16:03:27] <Alex> Fritzy: ya
[16:03:31] <hanzz> well... gn
[16:03:32] <Spike> hanzz: Kopete can't do TLS.
[16:03:43] <Spike> It it's still using old iris library.
[16:03:43] <Kev> melo, Fritzy, don't often see you here :)
[16:03:46] <niekie> There's probably 20 more diggs needed.
[16:03:51] <niekie> On that one article.
[16:03:55] <Fritzy> Kev: only when things are happening. :)
[16:04:00] <niekie> To frontpage it.
[16:04:08] <Fritzy> Kev: so how did /YOU/ find out about the XMPP server?
[16:04:16] <hanzz> Spike: i'm speaking about 'native' icq :) not through xmpp :)
[16:04:25] <Kev> Fritzy: that's for me to know, and you to wonder
[16:04:25] <Spike> Oh, I see! :)
[16:04:26] <Alex> Just just created a diigg account to dig it ;-)
[16:04:36] <Kev> also: someone tipped us off in the Psi muc ;)
[16:04:38] <niekie> Alex, great.
[16:04:50] <Fritzy> Kev: ah, I had traced it back to you
[16:05:24] <Fritzy> Kev: Sleek just worked. Pretty cool.
[16:05:45] <Fritzy> didn't have to do anything special
[16:06:26] Kiwi joins the room
[16:06:27] <Fritzy> Why does the wiki say to never encrypt?
[16:06:36] <Fritzy> Seems to require TLS before it gives you an auth option
[16:06:37] <TobiasFar> Fritzy: i just tested it
[16:07:26] grutten41213 leaves the room
[16:07:31] <TobiasFar> encrypt when available doesn't work
[16:07:44] <Fritzy> hm, it is advertising it, and advertising it as required
[16:07:46] <Fritzy> <stream:features><starttls xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-tls"><required/></starttls><mechanisms xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl"><mechanism>PLAIN</mechanism></mechanisms></stream:features>
[16:08:12] grutten leaves the room
[16:09:20] <TobiasFar> Fritzy: have you tested it with psi? :)
[16:10:02] <Fritzy> TobiasFar: Sorry, I'm sure you're right. I haven't tested with Psi yet. Still, looking at the XML, I don't see why Psi would behave that way. :)
[16:10:25] <TobiasFar> i guess because of iris :)
[16:11:38] <Fritzy> TobiasFar: Probably because it advertises PLAIN as well, even though it really doesn't mean it.
[16:12:28] <TobiasFar> i see if it works with gloox
[16:14:42] <pavlix> btw...
[16:14:48] <pavlix> does it work for anyone?
[16:15:27] <TobiasFar> yeah
[16:15:38] <Fritzy> pavlix: you bet
[16:15:56] <pavlix> I don't bet... it doesn't work for me in Gajim
[16:16:02] <pavlix> Fritzy: what should I try?
[16:16:23] machekku leaves the room
[16:16:25] <pavlix> I will not beliebe it before I am connected :D
[16:16:27] <TobiasFar> works with gloox too
[16:16:30] <Fritzy> pavlix: Psi works with http://wiki.jabber.org/index.php/AOL_Alpha I'm told.
[16:16:40] <Fritzy> pavlix: My SleekXMPP lib works.
[16:16:43] <TobiasFar> Fritzy: for gloox even with encryption
[16:16:45] <TobiasFar> like you said
[16:16:53] <Fritzy> TobiasFar: gravy
[16:16:57] <Fritzy> sounds like a Psi bug then
[16:17:16] <Fritzy> or that setting doesn't mean what we think it means
[16:17:17] <TobiasFar> oc
[16:17:46] <TobiasFar> well...gloox is pretty much RFCish and XEPish :)
[16:19:13] jjk leaves the room
[16:19:28] grutten joins the room
[16:20:15] <pavlix> hmm
[16:20:22] <pavlix> even netcat doesn't work
[16:20:24] <TobiasFar> Alex: Exodus works too right?
[16:20:28] <Alex> yes
[16:20:34] <pavlix> hey.... people.... it's not 1st april, is it?
[16:20:40] <TobiasFar> just making a list on the wiki page
[16:21:06] <TobiasFar> any other?
[16:21:13] <Fritzy> pavlix: We're not trying to fool you. But their server has been up and down and sometimes not accepting connections.
[16:21:13] <TobiasFar> Alex: agsxmpp too? :)
[16:21:29] <Alex> every xmpp compliant client or lib will work
[16:21:54] <Fritzy> has anyone tried iChat yet?
[16:21:56] <Alex> its TLS and SASL plain, both required by the rfc
[16:22:05] <TobiasFar> well...you see there are some clients which need to be treated specially :P
[16:22:46] smoku leaves the room
[16:23:05] <Fritzy> All code has bugs, and a new server sometimes shakes them out of a client. :)
[16:23:33] <pavlix> Fritzy: now i see something in psi's xml console
[16:23:47] <TobiasFar> Fritzy: ejabberd has some strage behaviour sometime too :) and they don't even consider it to be a bug :)
[16:24:12] <steve-e> hey
[16:24:14] <pavlix> but there's no such option in psi
[16:24:18] <steve-e> What is meant by AOL name?
[16:24:26] <steve-e> is this my ICQ UIN?
[16:24:39] <Alex> or your aol screenname
[16:25:08] <TobiasFar> screenname of AIM or icq #
[16:25:14] <TobiasFar> either will work afaik
[16:25:21] <steve-e> :-/ so its my client
[16:25:38] <TobiasFar> steve-e: what client?
[16:25:42] <steve-e> gajim
[16:27:10] <TobiasFar> i think we are already giving the aol devs a nice base user load for their test server :P
[16:27:14] <sq89> any chance that xmpp.oscar.aol.com is what gmail uses?
[16:27:35] <TobiasFar> sq89: maybe
[16:27:59] <steve-e> would be cool if they just make all there ICQ users become normal jabber contacts
[16:28:26] <Fritzy> steve-e: right, federation. Maybe some day, but we don't even have official word on what /this/ is.
[16:28:28] <TobiasFar> yeah...push out a new icq client which uses xmpp during the year :)
[16:30:33] <TobiasFar> but i heard that icq users see HTML code if you send them messages
[16:30:34] <TobiasFar> :)
[16:31:03] <Fritzy> TobiasFar: at least if they're using a Jabber transport they do.
[16:31:08] <Fritzy> Not sure what the official Jabber client does.
[16:31:11] <Fritzy> err
[16:31:11] <Alex> this server is funny
[16:31:15] <Fritzy> I mean the official ICQ client.
[16:31:18] <TobiasFar> Fritzy: there too
[16:31:19] <Fritzy> Alex: what'd you find?
[16:31:26] <Alex> i connected with telnet and it floods me with precences
[16:31:27] <TobiasFar> send a message to a classmate
[16:31:33] <TobiasFar> Alex: hehe :)
[16:31:34] <Asterix> I can connect with Gajim
[16:31:37] <Alex> I send no char at all ;-)
[16:31:56] <Asterix> just need to set use custom host and port and it works
[16:31:58] <Fritzy> uh... neat
[16:32:17] <pavlix> Asterix: nice
[16:32:23] <Fritzy> Asterix: ah, yup. They don't have the right DNS entries to make it automatic.
[16:32:25] <pavlix> Asterix: doesn't work for me
[16:32:42] <Fritzy> pavlix thinks we're all playing some sort of elaborate prank on him. :)
[16:32:43] <Asterix> pavlix: Gajim svn ?
[16:32:51] <TobiasFar> and the hostname resolves to some IPs
[16:33:00] <pavlix> Asterix: no
[16:33:13] <pavlix> 0.11.1
[16:33:34] <pavlix> Fritzy: psi 0.10 doesn't connect for me... but I saw once some xml stuff
[16:33:37] <Asterix> ok old one ... but I don't see why it wouldn't work ...
[16:33:40] <TobiasFar> xmpp.oscar.aol.com. 3534 IN A 205.188.104.130
xmpp.oscar.aol.com. 3534 IN A 64.12.91.163
[16:33:59] <pavlix> loool
[16:34:02] <pavlix> tofu: interesting
[16:34:05] <Asterix> pavlix: try running gajim -v to see some messages
[16:34:26] <Fritzy> pavlix: I don't remember of 0.10 is actually XMPP compliant.
[16:34:53] <pavlix> \
[16:34:55] Xificurk joins the room
[16:35:11] <pavlix> I don't have 0.11 in gentoo
[16:36:21] <pavlix> huh
[16:36:25] <pavlix> maybe it's just random
[16:36:34] <pavlix> but it looks like connected with icq
[16:36:37] <pavlix> with psi
[16:36:48] <pavlix> but no roster
[16:37:21] <pavlix> can I write anybody on ICQ?
[16:37:33] <Alex> 22370502
[16:37:50] <pavlix> Alex: thanks, do I add it as 22370502@aol.com?
[16:37:57] vorner leaves the room
[16:38:05] <Alex> pavlix: i think so
[16:39:12] <niekie> pavlix, also: It's not wildcard DNS, the record actually exists ;)
[16:39:21] <niekie> moo.oscar.aol.com does not.
[16:39:30] <pavlix> niekie: lol :)
[16:39:46] <stpeter> OMG, it would so rock if AOL supported the MOO protocol!!!!
[16:40:04] <pavlix> mine is 190617207
[16:40:44] <niekie> stpeter, MOO is a protocol? :)
[16:41:00] <niekie> I thought MOO's where played over Telnet :-)
[16:41:25] <niekie> Well, of course, sane persons use a client, but it's mostly just raw data.
[16:41:54] <stpeter> niekie: j/k
[16:42:08] <niekie> stpeter, hehe, I thought so :-)
[16:42:22] Kiwi leaves the room
[16:42:38] <Fritzy> Aw, AOL just booted me. :(
[16:42:54] <Fritzy> rudely too. No </stream:stream>
[16:42:57] TobiasFar 2
[16:43:04] <Alex> same here ;-)
[16:43:12] steve-e leaves the room: Disconnected
[16:43:15] <TobiasFar> they could at least have broadcasted a message :P
[16:43:21] <TobiasFar> to all xmpp connected users
[16:43:23] <TobiasFar> ;)
[16:43:27] <pavlix> :)
[16:43:52] <pavlix> I could never connect
[16:44:34] <Fritzy> "Attention all XMPP stowaways: We hate you and we're going to disconnect you."
[16:44:37] steve-e joins the room
[16:45:08] <TobiasFar> Fritzy: yeah..something like that would have been nice
[16:45:19] <steve-e> so game is over now? :-O
[16:46:07] <maxi> It's still working here after a reconnect
[16:46:19] <Fritzy> ah yup
[16:46:22] <Fritzy> it's letting me reconnect
[16:46:33] <Fritzy> pavlix: try one of the IP addresses instead of server names
[16:46:46] <Fritzy> pavlix: and then switch it to the other one if the first doesn't work
[16:46:55] <stpeter> it's probably some kind of alpha service that wasn't build for the load of all you jabber hackers trying to connect at once ;-)
[16:47:05] <pavlix> steve-e: true
[16:47:15] <pavlix> Fritzy: ok
[16:47:28] <TobiasFar> stpeter: and with all the different client and xmpp implementations :P
[16:47:38] <stpeter> TobiasFar: yeah
[16:47:59] <pavlix> Fritzy: one if them kicks me immediately
[16:48:04] <pavlix> Fritzy: the other lets me wait
[16:48:22] <Fritzy> stpeter: It's a service designed to find out which of their traitorous users are XMPP freaks so they can ban them.
[16:48:40] <stpeter> hehe
[16:49:20] wilawantuk joins the room
[16:49:25] maxi leaves the room: Disconnected
[16:49:38] <TobiasFar> Fritzy: i think they already know they can't ban unwanted people (like spammers) :)
[16:49:52] maxi joins the room
[16:49:54] queltos leaves the room
[16:50:31] <pavlix> Fritzy: which one worked for you?
[16:50:52] <Fritzy> lemme check and see which one I'm connected to
[16:51:27] <Fritzy> pavlix: 64.12.91.163
[16:51:32] wilawantuk leaves the room
[16:51:49] <pavlix> yep
[16:52:20] <pavlix> that one kicks me immediately
[16:52:32] <Fritzy> It knows your type.
[16:52:44] <Fritzy> pavlix: most of the time it doesn't let me connect
[16:52:53] <Fritzy> but occasionally it answers my knock
[16:52:57] matt@jivesoftware.com joins the room
[16:53:24] <Alex> hi matt
[16:53:29] <matt@jivesoftware.com> aol -- that is pretty sweet :)
[16:53:47] <Alex> ya it is
[16:53:53] <pavlix> Fritzy: but if it answers....
[16:53:54] <niekie> matt@jivesoftware.com, you == MattJ?
[16:53:59] <TobiasFar> niekie: NO
[16:54:00] <pavlix> Fritzy: it doesn't let me in...
[16:54:04] <niekie> Oh, ok :-)
[16:54:08] <Fritzy> pavlix: sorry mate
[16:54:19] <TobiasFar> niekie: it's one of the jive guys
[16:54:23] <pavlix> Fritzy: and the settings on the wiki are not in psi :D
[16:54:28] <niekie> Ah, awesome.
[16:54:29] <matt@jivesoftware.com> yess, i'm matt from jive :)
[16:54:31] <TobiasFar> s/it's/he's
[16:54:32] <TobiasFar> :)
[16:54:41] <Spike> pavlix: They are - in Psi 0.11.
[16:54:47] niekie reminds people to digg http://digg.com/software/AOL_ICQ_are_adopting_the_open_source_technology_Jabber/
[16:54:51] <pavlix> Spike: hmm
[16:54:58] <niekie> We probably need quite some more diggs.
[16:55:06] <pavlix> Spike: I will have to find an ebuild for psi 0.11
[16:55:07] tofu dugg it
[16:55:07] <steve-e> argh, I cannot conect due to some openssl "Unexpected EOF" errors
[16:55:08] <niekie> Well, florian does.. I did not submit it :P
[16:57:08] <TobiasFar> i've added the digs to the wiki page
[16:57:15] <niekie> Nice :-)
[16:57:28] <steve-e> when was this server discovered and how?
[16:57:43] <niekie> Get more people to digg it, I assume it needs somewhat like 13 more diggs.
[16:57:50] Kiwi joins the room
[16:57:58] <niekie> ;-)
[17:00:19] <TobiasFar> niekie: could you add a link to the wiki page as a comment at the digg? :)
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[17:10:30] <Fritzy> SEND: <message xmlns="jabber:client" to="[me@myjabberserver]" from="[myicqnumber]@aol.com/xmpp" type="chat"><body>Hi</body></message>
RECV: <message from="[me@myjabberserver]" to="[myicqnumber]@aol.com/xmpp" type="chat" xml:lang="en"><subject xml:lang="en">Send Error</subject><body xml:lang="en">[User is offline and will receive your IMs when signing back in.]</body></message>
[17:11:22] <TobiasFar> aha
[17:11:43] <Fritzy> A bloody shame.
[17:13:40] sander joins the room
[17:14:10] <steve-e> how could you discover that server?
[17:14:25] sander added instructions for Coccinella and some screenshot to the wiki :)
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[17:15:14] <Jadestorm> so y'all are having success connecting from Psi? hrm
[17:15:23] <sander> pavlix: hope you see now that's it's not a dream ;-)
[17:15:31] <TobiasFar> Jadestorm: yeah
[17:15:44] <Jadestorm> huh.
[17:15:47] <TobiasFar> see wiki page for more detailed instructions ;)
[17:15:56] <Jadestorm> looking at it ;D
[17:16:42] <sander> btw: the service is only a gateway
[17:16:42] <pavlix> sander: :D
[17:16:43] <Jadestorm> if i end up having to retire the im gateway plugin and/or my former pyaimt and pyicqt need to be retired, it will be a glorious glorious day ;)
[17:16:50] Kiwi leaves the room
[17:16:50] <pavlix> anyway.....
[17:16:59] <pavlix> who of you will I meet in Brussels?
[17:17:12] stpeter raises his hand
[17:17:32] <Fritzy> Jadestorm: Ah, so you're the author of pyaimt/icqt. Much appreciated!
[17:17:40] Alex raises his hand too
[17:17:52] Kiwi joins the room
[17:18:07] Fritzy will go if someone pays his way.
[17:18:08] <Fritzy> ;)
[17:18:17] <Jadestorm> aha i had to pick a specific one of their servers
[17:18:46] <sander> I found out that it's a gateway as file transfer between 2 Jabber clients connected to 2 different ICQ accounts does not work
[17:18:50] <Jadestorm> fritzy: don't thank me too much ;) i've severed myself from those projects. but i think i found some good heirs
[17:18:53] <sander> same for Coccinella's whiteboard
[17:19:25] <TobiasFar> sander: well..can be an underdeveloped server too
[17:19:46] <sander> don't think so
[17:19:58] <Jadestorm> wow just wow this is some fun news to be ending the week with
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[17:20:42] <Jadestorm> smack/spark work with it it seems
[17:20:46] <Jadestorm> i'll update the wiki page
[17:20:46] <TobiasFar> well..gn8 guys
[17:20:52] steve-e joins the room
[17:21:13] <sander> this is also what I heard from some reliable source btw :-)
[17:21:22] <Kev> pavlix: I'm there too
[17:21:31] <sander> they want to allow Jabber clients to connect to their service
[17:21:34] <sander> in the first place
[17:21:40] <sander> and no real federation
[17:22:08] <Fritzy> sander: Ah. When are they going to make a public statement?
[17:22:09] <Jadestorm> well
[17:22:18] <Jadestorm> hell that would make an OSCAR transport trivial at least
[17:22:24] <Jadestorm> "just support XMPP for AIM/ICQ"
[17:22:36] <pavlix> Kev: looking forward
[17:23:06] <TobiasFar> Jadestorm: if it's a gateway i wonder if it has the same problems as pyicq-t :P
[17:23:15] <Jadestorm> hehe maybe =)
[17:23:28] <Fritzy> maybe it's /using/ pyicq-t.
[17:23:29] TobiasFar leaves the room
[17:23:30] <Fritzy> ;)
[17:23:33] <Jadestorm> LOL
[17:23:34] <niekie> :O
[17:23:42] <niekie> :shock:
[17:24:13] <sander> Fritzy: no idea, my resource is not at AOL :-)
[17:24:26] <sander> /resource/source
[17:24:37] <pavlix> I'm there
[17:24:38] <mcepl> Fritzy: or they fixed jit ;-)
[17:24:43] <Fritzy> Ah, your source is a source of a source.
[17:24:58] <sander> Jadestorm: it's makes a Jabber transport even more interesting! ;-)
[17:24:59] <pavlix> I'm connected to aol's xmpp
[17:25:00] <pavlix> with gajim
[17:25:08] <Fritzy> pavlix: congrats!
[17:25:16] <Fritzy> See we haven't been lying to you! It's not an elaborate prank!
[17:25:23] <niekie> :D
[17:25:43] <Jadestorm> sander: Indeed! =)
[17:25:47] <niekie> Hrmm.. I guess 11 more diggs are needed on that article to frontpage it.
[17:25:57] <Alex> pavlix: congrats, took only 3 hours now :D
[17:26:04] <niekie> For anyone interested/using Digg: http://digg.com/software/AOL_ICQ_are_adopting_the_open_source_technology_Jabber
[17:26:43] <sander> Jadestorm: people need a real server with PEP and server side message archiving ;-)
[17:28:03] <sander> did someone already submitted this story to /. ?
[17:28:05] <steve-e> pavlix, what was the problem?
[17:28:22] <niekie> sander, no.
[17:28:26] <Jadestorm> dugg =)
[17:28:27] <niekie> Not that I know of.
[17:28:38] <sander> steve-e: pavlix, what was the problem? <-- pavlix was the problem probably :D
[17:28:47] voffk joins the room
[17:28:47] sander will do
[17:28:51] <niekie> sander, imagine how Florian's bandwidth will go through the roof.
[17:28:54] <pavlix> I guess gajim is only trying one IP address
[17:28:57] <pavlix> and not both
[17:29:02] <niekie> Being both digged and /.ed :D
[17:29:11] <sander> florian has enough bandwidth :-)
[17:29:17] <niekie> Heh.
[17:29:17] <sander> he's a hoster ;-)
[17:29:25] <Jadestorm> lol "why is my bill $83,912,212?!!?!?!?"
[17:29:36] <niekie> :O
[17:29:53] <niekie> 84 million dollars! THANK YOU DIGG! @&!(*!#$
[17:29:54] <niekie> :P
[17:30:03] <steve-e> ha
[17:30:05] <Alex> gn8 guys
[17:30:05] <steve-e> got it :-)
[17:30:15] <Alex> don't stress the AOL server that much ;-)
[17:30:47] <steve-e> try_connecting_for_foo_seconds has done the trick for gajim
[17:31:11] Alex leaves the room: Logged out
[17:31:47] sander leaves the room
[17:31:50] <Fritzy> ok, I'm done too
[17:31:54] Fritzy leaves the room
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[17:32:34] <steve-e> good night
[17:32:38] steve-e leaves the room
[17:32:43] sander joins the room
[17:33:26] <voffk> it was very fun to connect to xmpp.oscar.aol.com from mobile phone :-D
[17:33:40] <pavlix> :D
[17:34:02] <voffk> it really works ;)
[17:36:02] sander added the story to /.
[17:36:11] <sander> the Firehose is here: http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl
[17:39:45] Arafangion joins the room
[17:41:36] voffk leaves the room
[17:45:12] <niekie> sander, ++'d it :-)
[17:45:25] niekie is a /. subscriber, maybe that'll count extra :-)
[17:45:27] Xificurk leaves the room: Replaced by new connection
[17:46:53] <niekie> You have paid for a total of 2000 pages and so far 809 have been used up (6 today). Thank you for supporting Slashdot! We appreciate your contribution very much.
[17:47:07] <niekie> :-)
[17:47:58] <sander> this URL is probably easier: http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=473692
[17:48:13] <Jadestorm> well i need to get going but very cool news y'all take care!
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[18:14:53] <Xificurk> omg, they don't support multiple connections :D
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[18:22:44] <pavlix> something I half expected
[18:24:27] <Xificurk> and encoding is a little buggy too - it seems i can send out any unicode character, but when somebody with icq client writes to me... well it's not good.
[18:26:03] Jadestorm leaves the room
[18:27:16] <mcepl> Xificurk: actually, it seems to work for me (and yes, the other side has the official ICQ client -- not known whcih version)
[18:27:29] Kiwi joins the room
[18:28:53] <pavlix> mcepl: I can confirm
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[18:33:48] <Xificurk> mcepl: hm, maybe it depends on clients on both sides... I have experience Psi - ICQ 5.1 (at least I think it was 5.1)
[18:34:45] <pavlix> Xificurk: most icq people write ascii :)
[18:34:57] <pavlix> Xificurk: they know it's broken :D
[18:35:12] <pavlix> or... maybe not most.. :)
[18:35:28] <Arafangion> Worse, they tend to think it's /normal/ to refer to people as 1234125
[18:36:16] <bct> we
[18:36:41] <bct> it's strange, i haven't used ICQ in years but i still remember my number
[18:36:51] <bct> and yet it takes me a while to recall my phone number
[18:36:56] <pavlix> :D
[18:37:04] <pavlix> anyway....
[18:37:14] <pavlix> it seems to be more broken than working, still....
[18:37:22] <pavlix> but at least they're trying :D
[18:37:54] <pavlix> roster doesn't work well for me
[18:38:04] <pavlix> good night, people
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[19:01:29] <ajagucki> join me in jdev@conference.aol.com
[19:01:37] <ajagucki> haha
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[19:08:14] <ajagucki> not surprisingly, AOL's MUC service doesn't have history or room configuration
[19:09:27] <Arafangion> Few protocols keep history.
[19:09:58] <ajagucki> I'm referring to their muc service on xmpp.oscar.aol.com
[19:10:23] <ajagucki> to me it just confirms they're using some homebrew implementation
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