Tuesday, November 7, 2006< ^ >
TobiasFar has set the subject to: Jabber Development - Visit http://www.xmpp.org/
for further information on the XMPP and the XEPs
Room title: "jdev"
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[07:35:02] <vicky> Do anybody know wher i swaqas
[07:35:14] <vicky> i need him
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[10:12:26] <stpeter> hi Alex!
[10:13:22] <Alex> hi Peter, what's going on today? pretty quiet the last days in jdev ;-)
[10:13:31] <stpeter> yeah
[10:13:48] <stpeter> the only activity yesterday came from some crazy Russians who I had to ban :-)
[10:14:23] <Alex> ya, i have seen that.
[10:14:27] <stpeter> heh
[10:15:02] <Alex> i wonder why this guys come to 90% from russia
[10:15:23] <stpeter> probably some teenagers from Irkutsk with nothing better to do :-)
[10:15:27] <Alex> is jabber there more popular than in other countries
[10:15:49] <Alex> all teenies use icq here :(
[10:15:53] <stpeter> heh
[10:16:12] <Alex> they advertise it on TV on several channels
[10:19:03] <stpeter> I keep finding Thunderbird bugs
[10:19:08] <stpeter> maybe I'm a heavy user :-)
[10:19:21] <Alex> and i have firefox problems :)
[10:19:34] <stpeter> have you tried Songbird?
[10:19:42] <stpeter> Mozilla-based music player
[10:19:49] <Alex> cpu randomly goes up to 100%
[10:19:51] <Alex> no
[10:19:58] <Alex> is it good?
[10:20:00] <stpeter> Songbird is a real memory hog
[10:20:05] <stpeter> it's only at v 0.2
[10:20:16] <Alex> there are so many plugins, i think i have only 5 installed
[10:20:23] <stpeter> I think it will be good eventually
[10:20:39] <stpeter> http://www.songbirdnest.com/
[10:20:56] <Alex> Scrapbook is my favorite, and foxmarks for my booksmarks
[10:20:57] <stpeter> the Songbird folks are dedicated to open standards
[10:21:10] <stpeter> I don't use bookmarks
[10:21:33] <Alex> what are you using instead of bookmarks?
[10:21:54] <Alex> private storage in XMPP ;-)
[10:21:57] <stpeter> hehe
[10:22:09] <stpeter> I have a "start page" containing most of the links I use regularly
[10:22:25] <Alex> ya, thats a good idea too
[10:22:37] <stpeter> other than that I write about things in my blog and if I need something I can find it there :-)
[10:22:39] <Alex> i also use the personalized google start page
[10:23:19] <stpeter> I don't like other people to know what's on my start page :-)
[10:23:31] <stpeter> I've never liked to use Yahoo and Google and so on for that kind of thing
[10:23:48] <stpeter> but I like to run my own stuff, not use Gmail or whatever either
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[10:26:01] <Alex> ya, do I. Problem is the time to manage and update the server all the time.
[10:26:08] <stpeter> yeah
[10:26:33] <stpeter> I stopped using Linux on the desktop (for me, laptop) for that reason -- it was taking too much time
[10:26:38] <Alex> Google apps for your domain look interesting, but there are rumours that the even log deleted mails and chats. So better stay away from it
[10:28:45] <Alex> btw, was there any progress with XEP-0116
[10:30:25] <Alex> does songbird also support webradio?
[10:31:09] <stpeter> I haven't played with Songbird too much yet, just downloaded it yesterday
[10:31:24] <Alex> looks intersting
[10:31:38] <stpeter> the Songbird team wants to build a "media browser" that would find things out on the web for you
[10:33:11] <stpeter> regarding 116, we really need to figure out our encryption and digital signature story :-)
[10:33:35] <stpeter> I've been looking into W3C XML encryption and XML digital signatures
[10:35:02] <stpeter> I mean, XMPP is pure XML, no? :-)
[10:35:09] <stpeter> and there are existing libraries for that
[10:35:25] <stpeter> granted, it doesn't give you perfect forward secrecy
[10:35:39] <stpeter> so if someone gets your keys, they can read your messages
[10:35:49] <stpeter> if they are archived on your machine
[10:36:00] <stpeter> but the solution to that is to encrypt your filesystem
[10:36:04] <Alex> i talked to Ian about that. .NET has good support for encrypted XML and there are other libs. No idea if they are compatible.
[10:36:06] <stpeter> our job is to encrypt the wire protocol
[10:36:57] <stpeter> and even with off-the-record messaging, the client on the other end is probably going to log the conversation because people like conversation logs, and that's probably going to be plaintext
[10:37:09] <stpeter> (or XHTML or whatever)
[10:37:15] <Alex> ya
[10:37:21] <stpeter> so your perfect forward secrecy doesn't help at all at that point
[10:38:02] <Alex> but it's not a protocol issue if client log the stuff unencrypted
[10:38:04] <stpeter> plus XML encryption and XML digital signatures would probably be acceptable to the IETF so we could get rid of RFC 3923
[10:38:11] <stpeter> Alex: exactly
[10:38:23] <stpeter> and I hate RFC 3923
[10:38:38] <stpeter> even though I use S/MIME for email signing :-)
[10:40:06] <Alex> as a programmer i hate all encryption stuff. But it's important. It's hard to create a extension which is user friendly and secure
[10:40:32] <Alex> this is the reason why nobody on windows is using PGP or signing messages
[10:41:08] <stpeter> yeah
[10:41:16] <stpeter> it's pretty easy in Thunderbird
[10:41:20] <Alex> 1% == nobody here ;-)
[10:41:28] <stpeter> but it's not easy to get the right certificate
[10:41:28] <Alex> ya, i used it for a long time
[10:41:42] <stpeter> I mean, even longtime IETF weenies don't use S/MIME
[10:41:44] <stpeter> it's sad
[10:42:13] <Alex> currently im using outlook again because the good groupware features
[10:43:04] <stpeter> yeah :(
[10:50:09] <stpeter> woot, got down below 1500 emails in my inbox :-)
[10:50:45] <Alex> geez, thats way to much email
[10:50:55] <stpeter> yeah
[10:52:09] <stpeter> brb
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[11:10:02] <stpeter> BTW, if anyone would like an invite to http://me.dium.com/ please let me know
[11:10:15] stpeter blogs it
[11:12:22] <mog> what is medium?
[11:15:28] <mog> ?
[11:21:25] <stpeter> it's a kind of co-browsing application
[11:21:28] <stpeter> firefox plugin
[11:21:42] <stpeter> so you surf around the 'net and it makes this dynamic buddy list of sorts
[11:21:52] <stpeter> YABL
[11:21:55] <stpeter> yet another buddy list
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[12:09:59] <stpeter> http://users.design.ucla.edu/~akoblin/work/faa/index.html is cool
[12:20:08] <Solarius> Cool!
[12:22:00] <stpeter> yeah
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[12:29:29] <stpeter> http://www.saint-andre.com/blog/2006-11.html#2006-11-07T11:23
[12:33:21] <Ryan> hi.. could anyone recommend on a jabber client for a website.
[12:33:54] <Ryan> ive checked out jwchat, but it doesnt look scalable enough
[12:34:08] <Ryan> ive also seen xiffian but it looks too premature yet
[12:34:15] <stpeter> jwchat is probably your best bet
[12:34:24] <stpeter> isn't it running at mabber.de etc.?
[12:34:32] <stpeter> how scalable do you need?
[12:34:55] <Ryan> well, i just need it to handle potentially ~1000 users simultaneously
[12:35:11] <Ryan> ive seen it somewhere that it doesnt scale well after a couple hundred or so users
[12:35:12] <stpeter> you want something free, I take it
[12:35:28] <TobiasFar> stpeter: there are some nice java clients too
[12:35:34] <TobiasFar> like jeti
[12:35:35] <Ryan> anyone else out there with other opinions
[12:35:43] <stpeter> http://www.clientside.co.uk/ has a pure HTML client
[12:35:44] <TobiasFar> s/stpeter/Ryan
[12:35:46] <stpeter> but it's payware
[12:35:55] <stpeter> TobiasFar: sure, true
[12:35:57] <Ryan> jeti looked pretty nice..
[12:36:15] <Ryan> jeti is payware?
[12:36:20] <stpeter> no
[12:36:23] <Ryan> oo
[12:36:26] <stpeter> Chatterbox is payware
[12:36:32] <Ryan> im not against paying for something
[12:36:41] <TobiasFar> i'm using jeti on my page http://ayena.de like meebome...if someone knows meebome :)
[12:36:44] <Ryan> but want to exhaust the free options first :)
[12:38:03] <Ryan> ahh i see. that's cool.
[12:38:51] <Ryan> im curious do you know if it supports voice chat, image upload, and file transfer?
[12:39:10] <stpeter> it = ?
[12:39:24] <TobiasFar> jeti supports file transfer
[12:39:30] <Ryan> sorry, jeti. wondering how close the chat client is to some of the commercial products.
[12:39:56] <TobiasFar> and i don't know of any other jabber client than gtalk does voip in a stable manner
[12:40:08] <TobiasFar> +that
[12:40:53] <Ryan> ah ok. the gtalk jabber client is standalone, or website embeddable?
[12:41:06] <stpeter> well
[12:41:09] <TobiasFar> it's standalone and closed source
[12:41:11] <stpeter> they have their own client
[12:41:15] <stpeter> they also have a web client
[12:41:20] <stpeter> but it's integrated into Gmail
[12:41:21] <stpeter> naturally
[12:41:36] <Ryan> ah ok
[12:42:59] <Ryan> i see.. hmm so i think i will explore JWChat and Jeti. they look like widely used (and more stable) and also are web based.
[12:43:26] <Ryan> anyone know of any mature XIFF clients?
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[12:43:52] <Ryan> i found one implementation of XIFF called XIFFIAN but it is very new and has little functionality
[12:45:19] <stpeter> open source is great, isn't it?
[12:45:31] <stpeter> so much available, but if you really want it to work you may need to contribute :-)
[12:45:47] <Ryan> yes indeed
[12:47:25] <Ryan> ok, well i will look into these options further. thanks for the information folks.
[12:47:31] <stpeter> sure thing!
[12:47:36] <stpeter> stop back by if you need more :-)
[12:47:49] <Ryan> sure will. thanks. have a good day. :)
[12:47:53] <stpeter> ciao!
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[15:41:13] <Light Lan> good night
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[16:16:04] <mog> so
[16:16:14] <mog> im having trouble with openssl and sasl/tls negotiation with jabber
[16:16:18] <mog> anyone familiar with this?
[16:28:26] <TobiasFar> what kind of trouble?
[16:34:37] <TobiasFar> mog: what is your exact problem? what kind of error do you get?
[16:36:52] <mog> X509_V_ERR_UNABLE_TO_GET_ISSUER_CERT_LOCALLY
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