[00:02:22] <sadeesh> hi
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[02:51:28] <mono2> ello?
[02:52:04] <mono2> anyone alive here?
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[04:10:26] <labo311> :)
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[05:35:55] <ChatBot> [sparks]: hacker that beat trillian into submission.... (ouch)
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[08:59:23] <Christoph> hi
[08:59:31] <Christoph> ChatBot: hi
[08:59:31] <ChatBot> Christoph: Tell me more about that.
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[09:14:19] <ChatBot> [pgmillard]: My client could whoop your client any day
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[09:21:52] <lepekk> hi @ll
[09:25:05] <lepekk> <tańczę>
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[10:16:26] --- zeank materializes out of thin air
[10:16:46] <zeank> hi, is there a way to disable offline messages with jabberd14?
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[10:36:43] <sander> zeank: probably you can do that by removing <mod_offline> in the config file
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[10:50:33] <zeank> sander: that's what i thought too - but unfortunately if I do this no messages get delivered at all anymore
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[10:57:26] <sander> zeank: I see, well then try ejabberd ;)
[10:58:11] <zeank> lol
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[11:40:36] --- scm materializes out of thin air
[11:41:16] <scm> zeank: you can disable offline messages with a patch to jabberd2 - see http://www.marquard.net/jabber/
[11:41:49] <zeank> scm: I'm not using jabberd2
[11:42:24] <scm> i know that :-) but as it seems you're stuck with jabberd 1.x, it's an option...
[11:44:08] <zeank> changing server is not an option :)
[11:44:12] <scm> also you want to be careful about only disabling offline messages not subscription requests which can also get stored offline
[11:45:12] <scm> i imagine that would be fairly easy to hack in jabberd 14 source though
[11:46:07] <zeank> storing subscription requests is no problem
[11:46:07] <scm> but why do people stick with j1 when j2 and ejabberd are both more xmpp client and more actively developed ?
[11:46:16] <scm> s/client/compliant/
[11:46:33] <zeank> scm: it's about jwchat and WebClientServices which are only available for jabberd14
[11:47:14] <scm> zeank: hmm yes good point. i wonder what it would take to make those work for any server ? i think the solution is probably http binding support in servers and for jwchat to use that...
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[11:47:37] <zeank> scm: sure - support for this is on its way but not ready yet
[11:48:00] <zeank> scm: and by the way jabberd2 can't support any of these add-ons
[11:48:26] <zeank> as it's not possible to do authentication from within a component
[11:50:10] <scm> well if there were more clients supporting http binding then j2 might support it as well; chicken & egg problem as with a number of good JEPs...
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[11:52:13] <zeank> I'm implementing a standalone implementation of http binding atm
[11:52:45] <zeank> which will work with any jabber server
[11:53:02] <scm> zeank: will it work with j2 or will it need j2 to do something that it currently doesn't ?
[11:53:16] <zeank> it will work with any server
[11:53:30] <zeank> as it's talking client proto with servers
[11:53:56] <zeank> but those standalone solutions won't be as fast as built in components
[11:54:46] <scm> oh ok not a component more like a proxy ?
[11:55:05] <zeank> exactly
[11:55:20] <scm> zeank, what are you coding it in ?
[11:55:30] <zeank> its a java servlet
[11:56:45] <sander> scm: but why do people stick with j1 when j2 and ejabberd are both more xmpp client and more actively developed ?<--probably because the transports included in distributions are made to work only with Jabberd14 and because jabber.org *still* promotes Jabberd14 (and ejabberd is even not mentioned in the admin section! :-o )
[11:57:25] <scm> sander: aren't there transport for everything now that will run either with jcr or standalone ?
[11:58:13] <sander> yes, but they are not usable yet: some examples:
[11:59:00] <sander> 1) py*t transports have problems with ejabberd and aren't included in any distribution AFAIK
[11:59:08] <zeank> ejabberd doesn't support mysql e.g. ...
[11:59:35] <zeank> i didn't manage to get any transport working reliable with ejabberd
[12:00:39] <zeank> jabberd14 is being actively developed anyway
[12:01:20] <sander> 2) debian packages of transports aren't made to run at every server (it can be easily done stabilty (JCR has sometimes problems) if they create a separate package with the Jabberd binary and the xdb-file library and some extra lines to the config)
[12:02:09] <sander> zeank: I'm running all old (I need a testserver first for the new ones) transports under ejabberd :)
[12:03:59] <sander> zeank: age of Changelog in cvs of ejabberd: 18 hours and 15 minutes<->age of Changelog in cvs of jabberd14: 2 months...
[12:04:26] <zeank> sander, my problem was that every transport i tried worked fine right after registration but not once logged out. so just didn't come online again ...
[12:04:29] <sander> zeank: and pqsl-support in ejabberd is being developped ;)
[12:04:52] <sander> you probably forget to read the docs :p
[12:05:13] <zeank> sander, last time I asked aleksey he told me that support for mysql is not on his todo ...
[12:05:18] <sander> see also my statement about the transport packages in Debian
[12:05:36] <sander> you *need* xdb and log entries in the transport configs if you are running ejabberd
[12:05:44] <sander> otherwise it won't work
[12:05:52] <sander> same true for Jabberd2
[12:05:59] <zeank> i had those entries in the transports config
[12:06:11] <sander> zeank: mysql not but pqsl is :)
[12:06:16] <zeank> k
[12:06:31] <zeank> but why not make it db-independent at this point?
[12:06:38] <sander> http://jabberstudio.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/ejabberd/ChangeLog?r1=1.207&r2=1.208
[12:06:49] <sander> first code for pqsl ;)
[12:07:01] --- kataz_ina materializes out of thin air
[12:07:23] <kataz_ina> hello everyone :)
[12:07:39] <sander> these configs are working for me: http://jabberstudio.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/ejabberd/examples/transport-configs/
[12:08:17] <sander> hi kataz_ina
[12:08:30] <scm> zeank & sander: so if all those j1 admins & coders chose either j2 or ejabberd and helped sort out packaging, transport, component, documentation etc. issues the jabber world would be a better place :-)
[12:08:50] <zeank> scm, what's so bad about jabberd14?
[12:08:50] <kataz_ina> :]
[12:09:51] <sander> zeank: but why not make it db-independent at this point?<--probably he will make it easier to support more db's; I even thaught it will use xdb_sql :)
[12:10:20] <scm> zeank: well i'm a relative newcomer but i understood j2 was developed from the ground up to be more architecturally sound etc.etc. and it certainly has better xmpp compliance than j1, so i don't quite get why j1 & j2 coexist in parallel rather than everyone moving on (or moving to architectures like ejabberd which have advantages for certain requirements like redundancy, etc.) or is it like apache1 & apache2 where people can't agree whether v2 is better or not ?
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[12:10:41] <zeank> sander, yes, it looks like he's trying to be ODBC compliant which _could_ mean that within some period almost any DB is being supported
[12:10:49] <zeank> *gnar* gossip sucks
[12:10:59] <sander> scm: well, yes, although I prefer that they use ejabberd of course ;)
[12:11:30] <sander> zeank: it made me switching to ejabberd ;)
[12:11:45] <zeank> scm, jabberd14 has proven to be rock solid and reliable ...
[12:12:18] <scm> sander: of course :-) and erlang has lots of nice features as an underlying platform, but for jabber it's healthy to have > 1 server anyway because there's a greater pool of people who can contribute. erlang hackers/ejabberd fanatics contribute to ejabberd, C hackers who are too lazy to go through the erlang learning curve :-) contribute to j2, java hackers contribute to jive, etc.
[12:12:28] <zeank> scm, mawis is working on getting j1 xmpp compliant - so this not really that problem
[12:12:32] <scm> zeank: j2 is practically there too now...
[12:12:47] <sander> zeank: I even now see many problems with servers running the s2s component of J14 :(
[12:13:10] <scm> and by all accounts ejabberd is also reliable. and i second that re s2s - almost all the weird s2s connection probs seem to be caused by j1 servers.
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[12:14:21] <zeank> if ejabberd would support mysql i'd switch immediately - no doubt
[12:14:21] <sander> maybe that's also why jabber.org is using the s2s component of Jabber Inc
[12:14:38] <sander> zeank: I'll say Alexey ;)
[12:14:49] <zeank> sander, I already did some time ago :)
[12:14:55] <sander> but why do you need mysql support that hard?
[12:15:03] <scm> zeank: why would you switch to ejabberd instead of j2 ? just curious :-)
[12:15:14] <sander> and why is pqsl not good enough? :)
[12:15:15] <zeank> do be able to integrate jabber with a web site
[12:15:33] <zeank> and to not being stuck at one jabber server
[12:15:57] <scm> zeank: integrate as in ejabberd's http polling ?
[12:15:57] <zeank> j2 has no option to implement http binding or polling natively
[12:16:24] <sander> integration should be done via XMPP and JEP protocols IMO
[12:16:42] <scm> is there a future in http polling ? seems inefficient to me though i know yahoo etc. use it
[12:17:34] <sander> with the second point I agree, though I don't see any point to do that ;)
[12:17:40] <zeank> sander, this is really hard to accomplish
[12:18:01] <sander> you already have libs to make this easier
[12:18:09] <sander> I thaught
[12:18:35] <zeank> sander, the problem is: a web application is a one-shot application whereas xmpp as a streaming protocol
[12:19:52] <zeank> you'd have to use something like http polling or binding again for communicating with the jabber server
[12:20:01] <zeank> and most of the time this is just overhead
[12:20:23] <sander> using XMPP instead of a database also will make it safer to run the web app on another server I guess
[12:20:29] <zeank> I'm just talking about things like have same account data for jabber and web
[12:21:41] <sander> ah
[12:23:05] <scm> sander: a lot of small sites seem to go for j2 because the db backends and the way storage works makes it very flexible. ejabberd isn't as useful in those environments because it uses mnesia which isn't as well known or widely used, but then again is much better for large scaleable deployments like ISPs... I think ejabberd should market itself to large infrastructure providers and set up ejabberd Inc to sell consulting & support :-)
[12:25:39] <sander> ejabberd also has some good points to be used in small and big companies IMO
[12:26:47] --- Baccus materializes out of thin air
[12:26:48] <ChatBot> [Baccus]: My deadlines are too short, that's why I use VB
[12:26:51] <Baccus> hi ppl
[12:28:02] <sander> hi Baccus
[12:28:16] <Baccus> i'm trying to implement ejabberd for 1M users
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[12:28:31] <scm> sander,yes but there's definitely a complexity vs features tradeoff - at smaller sizes ejabberd's erlang/mnesia = greater complexity so slight disadvantage (from a perception/new user point of view) but for bigger sites complexity is not so much an issue but scaleability/redundancy is very nb. so it has a natural market for big installations whereas the small jabber server space is more crowded with options...
[12:29:17] <scm> Baccus: wow that should be a record. what sort of customer ?
[12:29:29] <Baccus> both kind
[12:29:39] <Baccus> pay and free
[12:30:00] <scm> baccus: sounds like a fun project :-)
[12:30:10] <Baccus> it's interesting yeah
[12:30:13] <Baccus> i'm also developing the clint
[12:30:16] <Baccus> client
[12:31:02] <Baccus> it uses Jabber + SOAP
[12:31:44] <sander> scm: smaller companies mostly use Windows...and installing ejabberd and Erlang is very easy (for sure if you compare to J2 or J14) under Windows
[12:31:45] * Baccus loves XML
[12:32:17] <sander> Baccus: 1M users? :-o
[12:32:30] <Baccus> sander: anyway ejabberd in linux is the way to go
[12:32:35] <Baccus> yeah that's the goal
[12:33:25] <sander> Baccus: you also can set up an ejabberd cluster with machines running Windows, Linux, FreeBSD,... to get the best protection against worms etc ;)
[12:33:47] <Baccus> worms in linux :) ?
[12:33:49] <sander> for which company is that?
[12:33:54] <sander> or is it just a test?
[12:34:18] <Baccus> it's for a company
[12:34:21] <sander> well I thaught very long time ago Apache was plagued by a worm ;)
[12:34:22] <Baccus> but i have a NDA :(
[12:34:33] <sander> NDA??
[12:34:41] <Baccus> non disclosure agreement
[12:34:50] <sander> ok
[12:35:49] <sander> starts its name with an A?
[12:35:51] <Baccus> sander: about the worm, it's a good idea to let a worm in
[12:35:55] <sander> or a B, or...? :D
[12:36:01] <Baccus> lol
[12:36:21] <sander> which country? or MNO? :D
[12:36:27] <Baccus> it's ridiculous to think in a sistem that can't be transgred
[12:36:43] --- scm disappears in a puff of smoke
[12:36:57] <Baccus> the way to go is to have a quick rebuild safe state, not to think that you have a secure network
[12:37:04] <Baccus> under any circunstances ;)
[12:37:24] <Baccus> same thing that happened to the USA
[12:37:43] <Baccus> they thought they had a secure country, and then bum! two buildings go down
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[12:59:50] <mefio> :]
[12:59:54] <mefio> :d
[13:00:51] <mefio> elo
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[13:39:10] <kevin> heloo
[13:39:34] <kevin> can I help yuo
[13:40:33] <kevin> super
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[14:24:43] <ChatBot> [sparks]: hacker that beat trillian into submission.... (ouch)
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[16:38:18] --- carlb materializes out of thin air
[16:38:19] <ChatBot> [carlb]: "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. " - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
[16:38:32] <carlb> anyone speak/chat german?
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[23:28:41] <ChatBot> [jer]: Go not to the elves for counsel, for they will say both yes and no
[23:29:22] --- ed materializes out of thin air
[23:29:45] <ed> Write Here aloha
[23:29:53] <ed> from hawaii
[23:30:28] --- ed disappears in a puff of smoke
[23:30:29] <jer> jabber.org is gunna go down for a while
[23:30:38] <jer> ChatBot: buh bye
[23:30:38] <ChatBot> jer: That is interesting. Please continue.
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[23:31:39] <gttest_599> hi
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[23:32:10] <jer> gay
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