Tuesday, August 28, 2007< ^ >
TobiasFar has set the subject to: Jabber Development
Room Configuration

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[06:35:33] <vorner> Hello, I can't find in the RFCs if JIDs are case sensitive or insensitive - I would like to make sure (as I remember, it was bare JID insensitive and resource sensitive, right?)
[06:36:05] <MattJ> umm
[06:36:37] <MattJ> I always thought nodes were sensitive
[06:36:40] <MattJ> domains not
[06:36:43] <MattJ> resources are
[06:36:50] <MattJ> But that's only what someone told me :)
[06:37:39] <vorner> Hm, probably should be clarified :D
[06:37:54] <vorner> Does anybody know, where in the spec it is?
[06:38:08] <MattJ> I'm trying to load it
[06:38:20] <MattJ> Except Firefox decided it doesn't want to
[06:48:12] <vorner> Hm, nodes use mapping tables B.1 and B.2. B.2 is case folding, as far as I read the stringprep thing, so it seems to be case insensitive. And the server node - its DNS name and it is case insensitive becauso of that, right?
[06:48:47] <ralphm> node and host parts are case insensitive
[06:49:52] <MattJ> .
[06:50:06] MattJ heads to change all his code -->
[06:50:17] <ralphm> well, in theory because you need to apply the nameprep profile. I don't think DNS in itself is case insensitive, just names that represent a host name (you can use DNS for other things, too)
[06:51:02] <ralphm> MattJ: you should basically always apply the stringprepping for every JID when you use them for comparison (that includes e.g. storing them in a dictionary)
[06:51:27] <ralphm> note that the mapping does more than case folding
[06:52:53] <vorner> Hm, I guess it will be hard to put into mcabber, all the tables...
[06:53:13] <ralphm> can't you use a library?
[06:54:22] <vorner> mcabber is kind of.. minimal. It has only curses, glib and gnutls, I would have to look if there is something in it. I don't think another lib is a good idea
[06:55:16] <vorner> Anyway, its little mess inside the code, I just found there are sometimes strcmp, sometimes strcasecmp, so I wanted to do something about them
[06:58:31] <ralphm> strncmp, I hope?
[06:59:15] <vorner> ralphm: Why not limit the length of compare? Will it help anything?
[06:59:57] <vorner> s/Why not limit/Why limit/
[07:00:09] <ralphm> to guard against buffer overflows
[07:00:35] <vorner> Ah, no, I have them both loaded in memory and null-terminated already
[07:01:45] <vorner> and yes, if the JID would be translated by the tables, then it is OK. But I'm not sure it is
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[07:41:12] <45664> Matt are u the bots guy?
[07:45:10] <Kev> xepbot is matt's, sleekbot is mine
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[07:45:43] <Kev> well, the instance here is mine, the project belongs to Fritzy
[07:45:50] <45664> Serious lev?
[07:45:52] <xepbot> May battle commence...!
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[07:46:18] <Kev> what do you mean by "Serious lev?"?
[07:47:04] <MattJ> He's on a mobile :)
[07:47:29] <Kev> oh, right, Kev :)
[07:47:52] <MattJ> However I'm not aiding him in what he is asking, until he makes clear what it is
[07:48:39] <45664> Any IM bot
[07:50:51] <45664> Help pls
[07:51:16] <Kev> I think you need to explain what it is you want, before anyone can give you help
[07:52:49] <45664> I need to write a jabber bot for my IM the bot must act as a jabber contact. And send random messages at command
[07:53:19] <Kev> what do you mean by random messages?
[07:53:30] <Kev> that seems somewhat pointless
[07:53:39] <Kev> oauf.ngm.gua.89*47098370498#&$)*urculaocruw
[07:54:13] <vorner> 45664: look for neutron bot, for example, and write a plugin for it
[07:54:27] <45664> Like when u send a blank message to the jabber contact it returns random messages
[07:55:00] <Kev> well, I'd just grab a copy of sleekbot if I wanted to do that
[07:55:07] <vorner> 45664: Yes. Write a plugin so it will do so
[07:55:30] <45664> Whats sleek bot
[07:56:13] <45664> I'm running an IM at my town it has about 20 000 users
[07:56:13] <Kev> googlejuice time :)
[07:58:36] <45664> Hello?
[07:59:23] <Kev> hello
[08:01:19] <45664> What should i do?
[08:02:38] <Kev> do you mean that you want a bot which pretends to be another user, in order to talk on their behalf?
[08:03:01] <45664> Exactly :-)
[08:03:10] <Kev> then I think you're out of luck here :)
[08:03:29] <45664> Y?
[08:03:51] <Kev> because impersonating users doesn't sound like an entirely legitimate idea
[08:04:12] <45664> Y not?
[08:04:44] <45664> Its a joke service that i'm gonna be offering.
[08:05:48] <vorner> 45664: Like I said. Get one of the bots already there, like neutron, write it a plugin to do what you want and you are done
[08:06:34] <45664> Where can i get neutron?
[08:07:18] <Kev> google
[08:07:21] <Kev> same as sleekbot
[08:07:26] <Kev> and probably xepbot too
[08:07:28] <vorner> 45664: Have you ever heard of uncle google?
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[08:09:05] <45664> Dont you have one that are already written?
[08:09:28] <Kev> yes, sleekbot, neutron and xepbot
[08:09:43] <vorner> 45664: These bots _are_ already written. You just need to write the functionality - the sending messages you want
[08:10:30] <45664> Thanks
[08:11:09] <Kev> !fact questions
[08:11:09] <sleekbot> facts for questions
questions: Please read the following document on how to ask smart questions: http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
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[08:11:47] <45664> Nah i'll pass
[08:12:00] <TobiasFar> hi
[08:12:03] <MattJ> lol
[08:12:04] <Kev> Then please don't expect help from us
[08:12:07] <MattJ> Hi TobiasFar
[08:12:08] <Kev> good bye
[08:12:11] <Kev> hey TobiasFar
[08:13:55] <45664> I thought this was a public community whereby we get help and also help others but unfortunately it seems as if kev owns this. :-(
[08:14:21] <Kev> if you read that document, you will understand
[08:15:00] <MattJ> 45664: Kev doesn't own anything, and this is a public community
[08:15:48] <Kev> MattJ: I own many things :)
[08:15:55] <TobiasFar> yeah
[08:16:04] <TobiasFar> including a new camera
[08:16:07] <TobiasFar> hehe
[08:16:16] <TobiasFar> how is the camera?
[08:16:18] <MattJ> and too many MacBooks
[08:16:19] <Kev> that is true, it's very nice :)
[08:16:24] <Kev> MattJ: I own no MacBooks, sadly
[08:16:32] <MattJ> .
[08:16:51] <Kev> I have an MBP at work though, which is pretty close :)
[08:17:07] <45664> How much is a brand new macbook?
[08:17:23] <Kev> I think around 700GBP
[08:18:18] <45664> Flip i'm in South Africa
[08:18:47] <TobiasFar> i got my mac crashed at least 4 times already :)
[08:19:29] <Kev> 45664: at the bottom of the apple store, there's a link to change the country; you should be able to choose one appropriate to you :)
[08:19:36] <TobiasFar> and two of them by VLC Media Player
[08:19:51] <Kev> oh, VCS was buggy for me when I tried it
[08:19:55] <Kev> *VLC
[08:20:14] <Kev> and I think it brought my mac down, too :)
[08:20:24] <MattJ> ^^
[08:20:26] <TobiasFar> buggy is one thing...but crashing the whole system
[08:20:39] MattJ pats his Ubuntu
[08:20:42] <Kev> well, that's a bug in the OS, really :)
[08:20:50] <Kev> the app crashing is the app's fault
[08:20:57] <Kev> the OS crashing is the OS's fault :)
[08:21:19] <TobiasFar> what's if the app crahses the os :P
[08:21:24] <TobiasFar> too many faults? ;)
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[08:21:35] <Kev> if the app can crash the OS, there's a bug in the OS
[08:21:49] <Kev> (unless we're talking about injecting code into the kernel or such)
[08:21:55] <MattJ> What about if the user can crash the app/OS? :P
[08:22:04] <TobiasFar> maybe VLC is more stable through parallels :P
[08:22:07] <Kev> MattJ: pebkac
[08:22:38] <TobiasFar> peblac?
[08:22:47] <TobiasFar> *pebkac
[08:22:47] <Kev> problem exists betweer keyboard and chair
[08:22:53] <Kev> s/betweer/between/
[08:23:01] <TobiasFar> ahh
[08:23:22] <TobiasFar> i'm laying on my bed with a mbp ;)
[08:23:35] <TobiasFar> so it doesn't fit for me luckily :P
[08:25:58] <TobiasFar> MattJ: read about the updates on JabberHTTPBind by stefan?
[08:26:41] <MattJ> I did
[08:26:56] <MattJ> It fixes one problem I had, and I will check it out again
[08:27:12] <TobiasFar> nice
[08:32:05] <MattJ> !slang pebkac
[08:32:05] <xepbot> 'pebkac' means 'problem exists between keyboard and chair'
[08:32:09] <MattJ> :D
[08:33:20] <Kev> battle of the bots :)
[08:33:45] <MattJ> It's an arms race :P
[08:34:15] <Kev> anyway, sleekbot can do something that I'm quite sure xepbot can't, and you're unlikely to ever want to code (unless you're insane)
[08:34:25] <MattJ> Run Python? :D
[08:34:26] <Kev> sleekbot can run eggdrop scripts :)
[08:34:36] <MattJ> Aha
[08:34:37] <Kev> not all of them, I haven't implemented the full interface
[08:34:44] <Kev> but an increasing number of them :)
[08:34:54] <MattJ> You spent some time on those scripts, no?
[08:35:28] <Kev> well, I was once (slightly, I didn't do much code) involved in the bmotion project
[08:35:42] <Kev> which is a set of scripts for eggdrop that give a bot a 'personality'
[08:35:51] <Kev> eggdrop is the dominant irc bot
[08:36:16] <Kev> there are huge numbers of eggdrop scripts available, so I thought it'd be interesting to be able to run them in muc as well :)
[08:36:31] <smoku> !help
[08:36:31] <xepbot> You won't find any help here :)
[08:36:31] <sleekbot> Commands:
help -- Help Command
ping -- Ping Command
fact -- Factoid Command
xep -- Xep Command
Help Command
Usage: /help [topic]
Returns this list of help commands if no topic is specified. Otherwise returns help on the specific topic.
[08:36:39] <smoku> :)
[08:36:46] <TobiasFar> !todo
[08:36:55] <MattJ> !TODO
[08:36:55] <xepbot> Reminders, birthdays, weather, source posting, RSS monitoring, karma
[08:37:13] <Kev> (this sleekbot has lots of the plugins not loaded; the eggdrop stuff being a notable example)
[08:37:14] MattJ wonders where some of these came from
[08:37:26] <smoku> no help on the TODO...
[08:37:29] <Kev> MattJ: I might code sleekbot to not reply if xepbot is in the room sometime :)
[08:37:38] <TobiasFar> !TODO += ,full text xep search, protoxep search
[08:37:38] <xepbot> Reminders, birthdays, weather, source posting, RSS monitoring, karma
[08:38:04] <MattJ> It would be !do TODO += ..., except there is no += operator in Lua :)
[08:38:31] <TobiasFar> MattJ: i guess you could easily add it to lua :P
[08:39:20] <MattJ> Sure ^^
[08:40:11] <TobiasFar> RSS monitoring would be ugly...for the hoster at least ;)
[08:40:24] <MattJ> Not really
[08:40:33] <MattJ> I don't intend him to do the monitoring part :)
[08:40:42] <TobiasFar> lol
[08:40:59] <TobiasFar> !xep atom
[08:40:59] <sleekbot> The XEP you specified ("atom") could not be found
[08:41:01] <xepbot> Error: utils.lua:113: Unable to connect to xmpp.org
It can only be attributable to human error.
[08:41:10] <MattJ> TobiasFar: ??
[08:41:13] <TobiasFar> MattJ: ??
[08:41:28] <MattJ> PING xmpp.org ( 56 data bytes
64 bytes from icmp_seq=0 ttl=45 time=119.764 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=1 ttl=45 time=119.476 ms
[08:41:31] <MattJ> Odd
[08:41:43] <Kev> caching the old response?
[08:42:47] <TobiasFar> srv01# ping xmpp.org
PING xmpp.org ( 56 data bytes
64 bytes from icmp_seq=0 ttl=45 time=119.945 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=1 ttl=45 time=119.635 ms
[08:42:57] <TobiasFar> my server reaches xmpp.org
[08:43:04] <TobiasFar> MattJ: so it's your faut :P
[08:43:29] <MattJ> !reload
[08:43:29] <xepbot> Reloaded ok
[08:43:32] <MattJ> !xep atom
[08:43:32] <sleekbot> The XEP you specified ("atom") could not be found
[08:43:33] <xepbot> No match found
[08:44:19] <TobiasFar> what's with that atom over xmpp xep?
[08:44:29] <MattJ> !xep .*atom.*
[08:44:29] <xepbot> No match found
[08:44:29] <sleekbot> The XEP you specified (".*atom.*") could not be found
[08:44:29] <TobiasFar> or was it atom over pubsub?
[08:44:39] MattJ is confused
[08:44:56] <MattJ> There is no such XEP :)
[08:45:19] <legoscia> it's an internet-draft
[08:45:43] <legoscia> http://www.xmpp.org/internet-drafts/draft-saintandre-atompub-notify-05.html
[08:45:56] <TobiasFar> ahh
[08:45:59] <TobiasFar> thank
[08:46:02] <TobiasFar> s
[08:46:03] <MattJ> !slap TobiasFar
[08:46:03] xepbot slaps TobiasFar around a bit with a large trout.
[08:46:26] <legoscia> it needs implementations, i think
[08:46:29] <TobiasFar> !ietf-draft .*atom.*
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[08:46:35] <MattJ> :D
[08:46:37] <TobiasFar> !slap MattJ
[08:46:37] xepbot slaps MattJ around a bit with a large trout.
[08:46:49] xeus leaves the room: Goodbye
[08:47:06] vorner is reminded of now-dead bot called vybliz
[08:48:13] <MattJ> :(
[08:48:35] <vorner> MattJ: Don't tell me you knew him.
[08:48:51] <MattJ> No
[08:49:10] <MattJ> I just have a soft spot for dead bots
[08:49:23] <vorner> The author denyes running it again. But it used to make slap wars with everyone in the room :D
[08:49:35] <MattJ> :P
[08:49:44] <TobiasFar> MattJ: what parts of xepbot use ANN?
[08:53:15] <MattJ> None yet
[08:53:22] <Kev> ANN?
[08:53:31] <Kev> in the sense that a computer scientist means? o_O
[08:53:38] <TobiasFar> artificial neuronal networks
[08:53:49] <Kev> neural ;)
[08:54:01] <TobiasFar> yeah
[08:54:17] <Kev> and that's interesting, what're you going to use anns for?
[08:55:22] <TobiasFar> MattJ: ?
[08:59:35] <MattJ> Nothing
[08:59:58] <MattJ> I think TobiasFar is referring to my hatred of AIML, for which I am writing my own AI
[09:03:43] <TobiasFar> MattJ: i guess you could use the ANN for detecting rude participants in channels ;)
[09:03:45] <Kev> I don't know aiml
[09:03:58] <MattJ> Kev: You don't want to :)
[09:04:06] <Kev> yes, I've just looked it up
[09:04:09] <TobiasFar> Artificial Intelligence Markup Language
[09:04:13] <TobiasFar> ;)
[09:04:18] <Kev> it's simply a challenge/response set isn't it?
[09:04:23] <MattJ> Exactly
[09:04:26] <Kev> at least, that's what the page makes it look like
[09:05:01] <MattJ> Its only useful feature is recursion, so a message can be parsed by more than one rule
[09:05:58] <Kev> ah, right
[09:06:25] <MattJ> I'm interested more in NLP
[09:06:30] <Kev> which one?
[09:06:41] <Kev> Neuro-lingustic programming, or natural language processing?
[09:06:47] <Kev> presumably the latter, nvm
[09:06:51] <MattJ> latter
[09:07:07] <MattJ> or feigning intelligence with the least effort required :)
[09:07:07] <Kev> you should look at bmotion sometime
[09:07:10] <Kev> it might amuse you :)
[09:07:27] <MattJ> I have been looking at the source
[09:07:31] <Kev> sadly, my eggdrop layer isn't sophisticated enough to support it yet, although it's getting closer
[09:07:49] <Kev> oh, the source does it no justice
[09:07:52] <Kev> really
[09:07:56] <MattJ> No
[09:08:13] <MattJ> I'm just wondering how much a Tcl->Lua parser would take :)
[09:08:14] <Kev> you need to see one running in an active channel to see just how often, by pure dumb luck, it says something amusing or relevant
[09:08:46] <Kev> well, if you can do that, I've got all my eggdrop layer written in tcl, with just a couple of hook points
[09:08:58] <Kev> so you could quite easily plug my layer into your bot
[09:09:16] <Kev> (much easier than writing an eggdrop layer yourself, which is, frankly, a nuisance :))
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[09:25:30] <Kev> oh, wait, you don't need a tcl->lua parser, you can just link against tcl, can't you? The base is c/c++, right?
[09:25:49] <MattJ> Yes
[09:26:06] <MattJ> But I'm a Lua addict :)
[09:26:18] <MattJ> Anyhow, there is no logic in the C/C++ base
[09:26:45] <MattJ> It depends how complicated the interface is
[09:27:45] <Kev> the eggdrop interface, or the tcl api?
[09:27:54] <MattJ> Both
[09:28:07] <Kev> the eggdrop interface is pretty simple atm
[09:28:20] <Kev> or rather, the interface with my tcl implementations of the eggdrop functions
[09:28:35] <Kev> maybe I should just look at how eggdrop themselves do it, and see if I could steal that
[09:28:38] <Kev> but I suspect not, sadly
[09:29:11] <deryni> The tcl<->C api is pretty simple from the little I've seen of it.
[09:32:33] solvideoproductions joins the room
[09:35:24] <solvideoproductions> Hello everyone
[09:35:29] <Kev> hello
[09:35:54] <vorner> Hm, is there a length limit for MUC nicks?
[09:36:21] <solvideoproductions> Not a lot of talking going on l see
[09:36:24] <Kev> I'm not referring to the xep, but I don't believe so
[09:36:36] <MattJ> Probably a limit on the server
[09:37:00] <vorner> Hm, so only the 1023 for a resource, or how it was. Would be a long line :D
[09:37:14] <MattJ> True :)
[09:37:28] <solvideoproductions> I see. So is each one of you on the tablet?
[09:37:38] <vorner> Which tablet?
[09:37:39] <Kev> solvideoproductions: 'on the tablet'? o_O
[09:38:02] <MattJ> I believe he is using a Nokia
[09:38:08] <MattJ> It uses Telepathy
[09:38:30] <solvideoproductions> That's correct. It's the n800
[09:38:52] <Kev> you're the only person here on a mobile client, I believe
[09:39:36] <solvideoproductions> Oh. Works flawlessly i see
[09:40:35] <vorner> Hm, again. All the day people are talking about things I have no clue what they are
[09:40:44] <Kev> welcome to my world
[09:41:04] <vorner> It just the today weather
[09:41:10] <solvideoproductions> Lol
[09:41:45] vorner just noticed his sentence no werb. Happens...
[09:41:56] <solvideoproductions> The room is supposed to be about programming
[09:42:23] <solvideoproductions> Maybe that's what they're talking about
[09:43:04] <MattJ> 1024 char limit on nicks it seems :)
[09:43:16] sleekbot leaves the room: Replaced by new connection
[09:43:16] <MattJ> JID malformed errors when I try over that
[09:43:17] sleekbot joins the room
[09:43:34] <vorner> I know it. But what works flawlesly? What tablet?
[09:44:09] <Kev> the n800 phone by Nokia
[09:44:12] <solvideoproductions> The nokia n800 internet tablet
[09:44:14] <Kev> it has a Jabber client built in :)
[09:44:51] <vorner> Ok. One of the todays misteries getting clearer :-)
[09:44:55] <solvideoproductions> That's what i'm using. Wherever there's wifi i can chat
[09:45:45] <solvideoproductions> Yeah, the new update comes with jabber and google talk
[09:46:02] <solvideoproductions> Pretty cool
[09:47:55] <solvideoproductions> I'm trying to get msn messenger to work as well
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[09:48:19] <solvideoproductions> Not much luck yet
[09:49:30] <solvideoproductions> Is anyone familiar with the VNC viewer app. for the 800?
[09:50:13] <solvideoproductions> I can't seem to make it work even after reading all the posts
[09:55:11] <solvideoproductions> No help :S
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[09:56:10] <smoku> another soul lost
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[11:43:09] <aconbere> I'm working on some python tools to allow a simplified use of xmpp for managing and storing friends, but I was wondering if any of you might have some comments on how someone might accomplish deligated authentication (I would like to allow users to authenticate not through my service so they aren't passing that kind of information to me)
[11:43:49] <jeti> there are some python xmpp libraries
[11:43:58] <aconbere> yes, I realize this
[11:43:59] <aconbere> :)
[11:44:08] <aconbere> but they aren't as simple as I want them to be
[11:44:17] <jeti> ah
[11:44:30] <aconbere> (what I'm writing is leveraging those libraries, to create a simplified toolset)
[11:45:06] <Kev> have you looked at sleek? I'ts pretty simple
[11:45:59] <Kev> I think I don't understand the question though; what exactly are you trying to achieve with auth?
[11:47:40] aconbere struggles on where to start
[11:48:37] <smoku> guys. I'm implementing stream compression for jabberd2. but... how would I test it? is there any client supporting it?
[11:48:58] <Kev> Psi should do stream compression
[11:50:57] <smoku> which version?
[11:51:25] <jeti> aconbere you can look into sasl external for that
[11:52:00] <smoku> aconbere, or GSSAPI
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[11:53:13] <smoku> Kev, which version?
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[11:54:36] <aconbere> essentially I'm working on a prototype to show that a simple solution to portable social graphs/networking is to repurpose the xmpp protocol. Solving things like roster subscription and request were of course stupidly simple, however I'm stumped on a solution for safe authentication.
[11:54:42] <Kev> 0.11, smoku
[11:54:47] <aconbere> That is, I certainly wouldn't feel safe handing my jabber credentials to a myspace, so what I would like to do is find some way to hand off authentication to a client that I trust (either a webservice running on a server that I trust or a local client).
[11:55:03] <Kev> aconbere: oh, you can use openid
[11:55:19] <Kev> openid with jabber will do almost exactly what you describe
[11:55:37] <aconbere> hmmm... is there a good way to translate openids to jabber ids?
[11:55:49] <aconbere> since as I understand it openids are just urls
[11:56:00] <smoku> smoku@wing:~$ apt-cache showpkg psi
Package: psi
[11:56:01] <Kev> I've googled it before, I know
[11:56:08] <smoku> hmm... I guess no luck.
[11:56:12] <smoku> any other client?
[11:56:14] <aconbere> (I was speaking with Scott Kveton one of the founders of janrain, and he seemed to think that the translation would be an issue)
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[11:56:27] <Kev> smoku: you could use the 0.11test2 linux binary thing
[11:56:59] <smoku> Kev, wher will I get it?
[11:57:24] <Kev> it should still be the top blog entry at http://kismith.co.uk I think
[11:58:24] <Kev> otherwise I'll have a look in a moment
[11:59:55] <aconbere> I thought that I had read something about dropping authentication tokeins
[12:00:27] <aconbere> which I think is one solution, though less awesome than simply using a web delegate a la openid
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[12:00:44] <Kev> xmpp for openid definitely has been done
[12:01:11] <smoku> on a side note - is there a client that enables TLS compression?
[12:01:48] <vorner> smoku: Don't know, it depends on the libs used.
[12:02:43] <smoku> Kev, OK. Got it. :)
[12:03:07] <Kev> cool
[12:03:37] <smoku> Kev, xmpp for openid has been done, but the other way. authenticating OpenId logins via XMPP...
[12:03:56] <Kev> I thought this was what was requested?
[12:04:01] vorner tried writing something ala xmpp lib (and failed), but has no idea, what the ssl lib did, it was enough the data got out of it
[12:04:11] <Kev> if facebook had openid support, it could be handled over xmpp
[12:05:12] <vorner> aconbere, Kev: Jabbim client is said will have openID support (XEP-70, i guess?)
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[12:05:46] <Kev> isn't Jabbim a rebadged Psi?
[12:05:52] <Kev> and yes, Psi supports xep-70
[12:06:15] <aconbere> Kev: I'm actually looking to log into an xmpp server with a non related jabberid. Say for instance I have aconbere@facebook.com, but want to migrate to myspace, I would login to myspace and provide my facebook id (aconbere@facebook.com), which if I give it my password is then easy to request my roster, and allow me to make changes to my friends list from any service that supports this kind xmpp protocal mashup.
[12:07:01] <vorner> Kev: No, it is jabbin, jabbim is pyqt based, brand new, at the moment something like 0.half beta
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[12:07:56] <Kev> I certainly know what Jabbin is ;)
[12:08:11] <Kev> but Jabbin have Psi as the image on the front page, and they used to talk about using Psi
[12:08:25] <Kev> but now you mention it, yes, I had been told they were using some new pyqt based thing
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[12:09:13] <vorner> I say they are different clients. Jabbin is fork of Ψ. Jabbim is unrelated to psi and just few weeks ago got to the state when it can join MUC.
[12:09:38] <Kev> yes, my second 'Jabbin' was a typo of 'Jabbinm'
[12:10:05] <Kev> and I say, yes, I know what you're talking about, and I know what Jabbin is very clearly, and am also aware of the Jabbim service
[12:11:22] <smoku> aconbere, there is this jabber2jabber gateway for ejabber, that does what jou've described
[12:12:29] <aconbere> smoku: do you know where I can find documentation or learn more? (a simple google search hasn't turned up terribly interesting links)
[12:13:43] <smoku> try talking to koralgol@jabber.autokom.pl
[12:13:54] <smoku> he has this gateway on his server
[12:13:58] <aconbere> awesome thanks
[12:14:40] <smoku> urm. it is koralgol@jabber.autocom.pl
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[12:19:26] <MattJ> !j2j
[12:19:26] <xepbot> http://wiki.jrudevels.org/index.php/Eng:J2J
[12:19:33] <MattJ> Another possibility for aconbere
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[13:42:57] <Alex> hi @all
[13:45:19] <Solarius> Hi Alex!
[13:45:25] <Solarius> How are you?
[13:46:06] <Alex> I'm doing OK, thanks
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[14:12:18] <stpeter> la la la
[14:13:04] <Alex> which song is this?
[14:13:16] <stpeter> not sure :)
[14:13:16] xepbot looks at stpeter
[14:20:47] jeti wonders if he should be happy companies use his client or angry because they do so without mentioning it's opensource or created by me
[14:21:11] <stpeter> hmm
[14:21:15] <stpeter> good question
[14:22:06] <Alex> jeti, you client is GPL?
[14:22:13] <jeti> yes it is
[14:22:32] <Alex> then they have to mention on thier webpages that the software is GPL
[14:22:40] <jeti> anyone know the world gaming center?
[14:22:46] <jeti> no they don't
[14:23:26] <Alex> then tell them that they have to
[14:23:32] <vorner> jeti: So mail them
[14:23:55] <TobiasFar> hi all
[14:24:09] <MattJ> rehi TobiasFar
[14:24:09] <stpeter> hi TobiasFar
[14:24:45] <Solarius> Hi TobiasFar!
[14:24:48] <Alex> problem is that the most windows programmers don't know the GPL
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[14:24:54] <Alex> i have problems with that all day
[14:25:04] <TobiasFar> Alex: why that?
[14:25:46] <Alex> because they all think the GPL is like the MIT, Apache or what ever licence
[14:26:12] <Alex> if they read open source they think its free to use in commercial closed source projects
[14:26:28] <TobiasFar> Alex: lol
[14:26:40] <vorner> Alex: If they are just the kind of programers they need to be told and fix it, then it's quite ok
[14:27:04] <vorner> the ones which need to be threated by a lawsuite are worse, I guess
[14:27:29] <jeti> I don't really mind people using my client if they're not getting much money from it and mention I created it
[14:27:47] <Alex> ya, in many countries you have chance at the court
[14:28:01] <TobiasFar> jeti: define much so i can start my business ;)
[14:28:03] <legoscia> by the GPL, they are required to give people the source code too… might be an interesting fight ☺
[14:28:28] <Alex> in germany you have, and many people wich violated the GPL got sued here
[14:28:36] <jeti> TobiasFar you may if you give me 90% :P
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[14:29:07] <Alex> legoscia: Im currently fighting with one company which us using GPL software and does not offer the source
[14:29:10] <jeti> most news about gpl court cases are from germany yes
[14:29:13] <TobiasFar> legoscia: netgear at least violates GPL in their betatests...and the betas contain still a lot bugs :/
[14:29:16] <vorner> jeti: Well, I think I could make money with it and not violate GPL anyway ;-)
[14:29:48] <Alex> http://www.gpl-violations.org/
[14:29:52] <jeti> yes I know you cluld
[14:30:25] <TobiasFar> vorner: no you couldn'T not...i think you can only sell good jabber clients ;)
[14:30:36] <TobiasFar> *could
[14:30:54] <45664> Any free .jar jabber clients
[14:30:55] <jeti> http://wgcenter.com/ thinks it's a good client :P
[14:31:10] <MattJ> 45664: Bombus
[14:31:11] <jeti> so did reuters in south africa
[14:31:21] <TobiasFar> Alex: any news on your client? <-- knowing the answer just asking to being polite :P
[14:31:24] <vorner> TobiasFar: That's not in the GPL ;-)
[14:31:39] <Alex> TobiasFar: no, busy with other stuff
[14:31:39] <jeti> and a swedish company uses it with the security suite
[14:31:41] <MattJ> TobiasFar: and while we're at it, how is yours? :)
[14:31:42] <vorner> TobiasFar: And people are dumb
[14:31:50] <45664> Do u guys know MXit?
[14:32:03] <TobiasFar> MattJ: which of my clients?
[14:32:11] <TobiasFar> vorner: yeah..we know that since m$ :P
[14:32:11] <MattJ> TobiasFar: Exactly!
[14:32:46] <jeti> jeti is a free .jar client :P
[14:33:08] <jeti> he probalby wants one to run on phones though
[14:33:12] <TobiasFar> MattJ: i don't code on a client named Exactly!...but that'll be the name of my next try
[14:33:36] <MattJ> TobiasFar: More != better :)
[14:34:21] <TobiasFar> but i learn stuff from each try..and writing a new one is faster than refactoring the existing ones
[14:35:04] vorner had 2 tries like this, the last one failed on C++ monstrosity, so now tries to help mcabber :-)
[14:35:18] <MattJ> mcabber is good :)
[14:35:36] <TobiasFar> google haven't change their source submitting guideline for days...is their system broke? :P
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[14:35:44] <TobiasFar> *changed
[14:36:09] <vorner> MattJ: Yes, and is getting colored now :D
[14:36:19] <MattJ> vorner: :o
[14:36:29] <MattJ> TobiasFar: Why does that mean it's broken?
[14:36:55] <TobiasFar> google usually changes stuff in GSoC every three days ;)
[14:37:11] <TobiasFar> it's an GSoC '07 joke, dude
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[14:37:24] <vorner> (Have to start exploring the code from the easier parts)
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[14:37:48] <MattJ> TobiasFar: Your sense of humour is out of control tonight :)
[14:37:57] <TobiasFar> MattJ: hehe
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[14:39:18] <TobiasFar> my school really sucks...i can ride 20km each friday for a 90 minutes course :P
[14:40:37] <45664> Who is currenty owning an IM server and client?
[14:41:09] <vorner> 45664: I guess there is no such person writing both at a time
[14:41:34] <45664> Cool
[14:41:39] <MattJ> 45664: What do you mean?
[14:41:54] <Alex> 45664: there are soem companies, but don't think individuals
[14:42:03] <jeti> don't the ejabberd guys have a client too?
[14:42:14] <Alex> yes tkabber
[14:42:20] <45664> Do u know of a place where i can get free hosting for my IM server?
[14:42:33] <jeti> and spark and openfire
[14:42:34] <Alex> and the new process one client
[14:42:52] <stpeter> hi 45664 :)
[14:43:06] <TobiasFar> Alex: which really looks like a MSN Messenger with the same lame feature set :P
[14:43:12] <45664> Hi stpeter
[14:43:36] <Alex> Tobias: you mean the One Team client?
[14:43:56] <TobiasFar> nono
[14:44:00] <TobiasFar> sorry
[14:44:14] <TobiasFar> i confused process-one with coversant ;)#
[14:44:21] <Alex> :D
[14:44:25] <45664> Where can i get free dedicated hosting?
[14:44:44] <jeti> probalby nowhere
[14:44:49] <vorner> 45664: Well, I think it is contradictionary
[14:44:57] <TobiasFar> 45664: there is a page on wiki.jabber.org
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[14:45:53] <45664> Tob whats the page about?
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[14:47:34] <jeti> I got a german host for a few euros a month I think that is as cheap as you can get
[14:48:01] <45664> Is it dedicated hosting?
[14:48:37] <jeti> virtual hosting
[14:48:53] <jeti> you get your own os but share the server with other people
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[14:52:11] <Alex> have to reboot, windows :s
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[14:52:18] <MattJ> :D
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[14:52:54] <stpeter> heh
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[15:00:47] <TobiasFar> MattJ: what happend to your bot?
[15:01:07] <MattJ> He was just killed
[15:01:18] <newmanbe> Good riddens!
[15:01:39] <TobiasFar> MattJ: not by me this time ;)
[15:03:32] <waqas> MattJ: Does TobiasFar have the badge? :)
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[15:04:55] <MattJ> Um
[15:05:12] <MattJ> No, he cheats
[15:05:22] <waqas> :P
[15:05:39] <TobiasFar> how could i cheat?
[15:05:50] <TobiasFar> i have no clue about lua yet
[15:06:09] <smoku> as for using SSL/TLS compression within jabber streams:
The TLS standard (or SSLv3) allows the integration of compression methods into the communication. The TLS RFC does however not specify compression methods or their corresponding identifiers, so there is currently no compatible way to integrate compression with unknown peers. It is therefore currently not recommended to integrate compression into applications. [...]
[15:06:12] <smoku> ROTFL
[15:07:03] <waqas> :)
[15:07:04] <MattJ> :D
[15:07:09] <waqas> How interesting :)
[15:07:29] <TobiasFar> and ejabberd doesn't provide stream compression over TLS c2s streams because they say TLS already compresses
[15:07:48] <newmanbe> Sounds like something waqas would design.
[15:07:54] <smoku> Gajim developers stay in the same position.
[15:08:16] <vorner> Hm, that's why I never got compression started, I got TLS first :D
[15:08:19] <smoku> no need for XEP-0138 'cause there is TLS compression
[15:08:31] <waqas> newmanbe: Wow, I designed that? Cool :)
[15:09:02] <newmanbe> No, just that particular aspect is something you would do.
[15:22:29] <MattJ> How would I escape ASCII char 128 for XML/XMPP?
[15:22:59] <waqas> Not &#128;?
[15:23:12] <MattJ> I'm not sure it is
[15:23:34] <waqas> &#x80;? :)
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[15:27:54] <TobiasFar> close the door!
[15:28:17] <newmanbe> Wipe your feet.
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[16:11:25] <TobiasFar> stpeter: why is atom ove xmpp/pubsub an ietf draft and not a xep?
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[16:47:21] <stpeter> TobiasFar: oops, sorry, wandered off :)
[16:47:24] <stpeter> TobiasFar: long story
[16:47:39] <stpeter> that dates back to when the Atom WG was active
[16:47:54] <bct> the WG's still active. ish.
[16:48:01] <stpeter> ish :)
[16:48:45] <elmex> can i build bombs with Atom?
[16:49:33] <bct> no, but you can get notified when new bombs have been built :)
[16:49:40] <stpeter> LOL
[16:49:40] <waqas> :)
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[17:01:08] <TobiasFar> stpeter: okay...thanks for that info.
[17:01:11] <TobiasFar> gn8
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[17:03:57] <stpeter> hi Asterix!
[17:19:28] <Asterix> Hi stpeter
[17:23:26] <stpeter> gosh, too much IM today :)
[17:23:37] <stpeter> I keep getting pulled into conversations
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[17:42:51] <Alex> new release is done, now its beer time
[17:43:11] <Alex> i hate doing new releases
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[17:59:36] <stpeter> Alex: :)
[17:59:40] <drleo> asterix hi
[17:59:42] <stpeter> train time for me, cya later
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[18:00:14] <drleo> Asterix are you cuban?
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[18:45:34] Asterix leaves the room: I'm going to sleep, see you tomorow
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[23:06:35] <45664> Which server is the ardu openfire or ejabbered
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