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[17:35:00] <> .
[17:35:14] <> ,
[17:35:36] <> /me determines to solve the "unreliable remote MUC" problem somehow soon
[17:36:44] <> MattJ_: PSA? :)
[17:37:07] <> That would help if the unreliable server ran my code ;)
[17:37:23] <> I need to know when I'm disconnected from the MUC
[17:37:39] <> Yes, that's what PSA does.
[17:37:42] <> How?
[17:38:03] <> It's just annotations, it doesn't "do" anything as such
[17:38:04] <> Telling you when the remote server becomes unreachable.
[17:38:22] <> So all occupant presence would be repeated with annotations?
[17:38:45] <> The annotation's done by your server, but yes.
[17:38:53] <> I'm not entirely sure this is the right approach, FWIW.
[17:40:32] <> what is PSA (in that context)?
[17:40:58] <> because I want that problem solved as well :s
[17:42:34] <> Presence State Annotations.
[17:42:34] <> louiz’, you and your users, I saw the proposed ping hack... I think this is the server's responsibility though
[17:43:07] <> ok thanks
[17:44:00] <> MattJ_: If you have a better solution to this than PSA, please do share. Solving this seems very desirable to me.
[17:44:42] <> Kev, I'm going to experiment with detecting unclean s2s drops
[17:44:55] <> Isn't this back into PSA territory?
[17:45:08] <> A variation on the theme, anyway.
[17:45:26] <> I think I'd just send unavailable presence once I'm pretty sure the remote server is down/restarted
[17:46:23] <> Or just unreachable for a moment, in which case the person might still be an occupant?
[17:48:23] <> I always get confused about PSA because those are my initials ;-)
[17:48:25] <> Yes, differentiating the two is the hard part :)
[17:48:41] <> stpeter, I hear it wasn't a total accident :)
[17:48:45] <> stpeter: Oh, there's a coincidence. You'd think I would have noticed before submitting the XEP :)
[17:48:45] <> erk
[17:49:36] <> I don't remember if that was Dave or mine, but it wasn't accidental.
[17:49:48] <> I blame Mr. Cridland
[17:49:54] <> That's always a sound policy.
[17:49:57] <> heh
[17:50:13] <> Although I may have been guilty of silly names too. I may have accidentally named one of the heuristics in my PhD "SAMOSA".
[17:50:56] * Tobias left the chat.
[17:52:45] <> All other naming silliness pales in comparison to this conference: http://www.thei3p.org/events/sausage2011.html .
[17:53:35] <> deryni: I think LEMONADE was a close contender.
[17:54:31] <> I don't know that one.
[17:54:43] <> Email WG.
[17:55:14] <> https://tools.ietf.org/wg/lemonade/charters
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[17:58:38] <> Ah. Does that name have a reason?
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[18:47:00] <> People like silly names?
[18:49:00] <> Heh.
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[19:50:32] <> ;
[19:50:35] <> .
[19:50:45] <> :
[19:51:00] <> /me sorry was testing something :P
[19:51:06] <> of interest: http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/4/5173726/you-have-too-many-chat-apps-can-layer-connect-them
[19:51:24] <> subtitle: "The people behind Jabber and Grand Central want to reinvent how we chat"
[19:53:28] <> /me thinks that M-Link doesn't rewrite ids on reflected message stanzas, it just removes id attributes >_>
[19:53:40] <> ... which is not pretty.
[19:57:08] <> reminds me of http://xkcd.com/927/
[19:57:41] <> yes, that's a classic :-)
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[19:59:16] <> oh, its even down there in the comments.
[19:59:31] <> /me is back to writing radio intercom apps
[20:00:11] <> nice :-)
[20:03:42] <> I think Maranda is referring to the Last Message Correction bug of Gajim against M-Link.
[20:04:00] <> test1
[20:04:02] <> test2
[20:04:04] <> That is, after he implied so to me :-)
[20:04:07] <> Here it works.
[20:04:16] <> Not for me.
[20:04:19] <> From poezio.
[20:04:21] <> Not for me. correction.
[20:04:22] <> Oh, really?
[20:04:32] <> Did you see my correction?
[20:04:32] <> Not in Gajim.
[20:04:39] <> Strange.
[20:04:49] <> I see two messages.
[20:04:49] <> The correction with M-link will never work, it cannot.
[20:04:57] <> oh cool - that works in swift
[20:05:05] <> "edited"
[20:05:11] <> Link Mauve, that's cause M-Link just plainly removes the id attribute on reflected stanzas
[20:05:12] <> bear, then the implementation is wrong :D
[20:05:29] <> why - because it shows a change?
[20:05:37] <> :|
[20:05:38] <> because the ids are not the same
[20:05:47] <> which is not right in *my opinion* anyways
[20:05:54] <> m-link broadcasts each message with a different id for each recipient
[20:06:05] <> mathieui, why do I see my message as corrected?
[20:06:07] <> Not really, it doesn't at all here.
[20:06:16] <> From Swift group chat: [19:52:08] Darlan: Should M-Link treat to last message correction stanzas differently? [19:52:29] Kev: I think it's possible we need to change the LMC spec.
[20:06:22] <>  <message xmlns="jabber:client" to="jdev@conference.jabber.org" type="groupchat" id="68"> <body>;</body> </message>  <message type='groupchat' to='maranda@lightwitch.org/Aero' from='jdev@conference.jabber.org/Maranda'> <body>;</body> </message> <r xmlns='urn:xmpp:sm:2'/>
[20:06:29] <> Maranda, oO
[20:06:34] <> that behavior is unspecified in XEP-0045, unfortunately (whether to retain the id or write a new one on each message that does out)
[20:06:36] <> last time I checked, there were still ids
[20:06:37] <> /me questions where is the id.
[20:07:10] <> test
[20:07:13] <> test2
[20:07:21] <> I see two messages
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[20:08:25] <> Link Mauve, it is corrected on poezio because we correct the message with the id of the last of our message we received
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[20:08:36] <> so it is indeed corrected according to the spec, but only on your client
[20:09:21] <> I see.
[20:09:35] <> You get the message id back on your own stanza?
[20:10:12] <> deryni, yeah, at the beginning we didn’t check for the received message, so the messages weren’t corrected anywhere
[20:10:15] <> No, but we store the out stanza.
[20:10:19] <> Link Mauve, no
[20:10:23] <> Oh?
[20:10:30] <> that is what we did at first
[20:10:34] <> I'm not sure on Gajim's code, but I think that if M-Link just rewrited the id there wouldn't be a problem.
[20:10:51] <> then I changed that to take into account the received stanza, but that didn’t improve things much
[20:11:37] <> It is interesting that M-Link would send it back to you but strip it before sending to anyone else.
[20:14:05] <> deryni, jabber.org doesn’t strip, I just checked
[20:14:14] <> Maranda, does your client send ids at all?
[20:14:19] <> ...
[20:14:29] <>  <message xmlns="jabber:client" to="jdev@conference.jabber.org" type="groupchat" id="68"> <body>;</body> </message>
[20:15:41] <> As long as I'm not having some strange allucinatory event caused by my left heel's injury, I think so.
[20:16:14] <>  <message xmlns="jabber:client" to="jdev@conference.jabber.org" type="groupchat" id="113"> <body>As long as I'm not having some strange allucinatory event caused by my left heel's injury, I think so.</body> </message>  <message type='groupchat' to='maranda@lightwitch.org/Aero' from='jdev@conference.jabber.org/Maranda'> <body>As long as I'm not having some strange allucinatory event caused by my left heel's injury, I think so.</body> </message>
[20:16:17] <> :) brb
[20:17:28] <> 21:16:14 --> <message to="mathieui@mathieui.net/srv" type="groupchat" id="a435ef5d-5503-4092-b270-3f7da9decd5d-CD8C" from="jdev@conference.jabber.org/Maranda"><body> <message xmlns="jabber:client" to="jdev@conference.jabber.org" type="groupchat" id="113"> <body>As long as I'm not having some strange allucinatory event caused by my left heel's injury, I think so.</body> </message>  <message type='groupchat' to='maranda@lightwitch.org/Aero' from='jdev@conference.jabber.org/Maranda'> <body>As long as I&apos;m not having some strange allucinatory event caused by my left heel&apos;s injury, I think so.</body> </message></body></message>
[20:17:33] <> (sorry for the formatting)
[20:17:59] <> To you, but not to me.
[20:18:11] <> that’s really weird
[20:18:16] <> I don’t have this issue
[20:18:37] <> Darlan maybe could fire the console and check if he's experiencing the same.
[20:19:31] <> Maranda, what do you want me to do?
[20:19:53] <> Open the XML console and send a message here, see if the reflected message stanza has an id or not?
[20:19:55] <> I have gajim -v set so I can just look at output.txt.
[20:20:09] <> /me thinks the xml console would be easier.
[20:20:32] <> test xml message
[20:21:32] <> No ID in In stanza:  <message xmlns="jabber:client" to="jdev@conference.jabber.org" type="groupchat" id="941"> <body>test xml message</body> </message>  <message type='groupchat' to='darlan@gajim.org/Gajim' from='jdev@conference.jabber.org/Darlan'> <body>test xml message</body> </message>
[20:23:18] <> /me .
[20:23:55] <> Dec 04 20:23:18 s2sin283c190 debug Handled incoming stanzas: 277 Dec 04 20:23:18 s2sin283c190 debug Received[s2sin]: <message type='groupchat' to='maranda@lightwitch.org/Aero' from='jdev@conference.jabber.org/Maranda'>
[20:24:02] <> definitely it's being stripped.
[20:24:33] <> Why would a server strip an ID for?
[20:27:39] <> /me has no idea ^^.
[20:36:04] <> It could be related to SM on the s2s stream in my case, but then I don't think gajim.org would be affected also.
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[20:38:16] <> I hope this issue will not delay next Gajim 0.16 release, which, I guess, should have been released already.
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[20:39:03] <> .
[20:41:19] <> I don't seem to receive any id at all on any of the occupants groupchat message stanzas, even on a different client.
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[20:42:16] <> Darlan, I don't think the issue is related to Gajim itself you should try from an account on a server different from gajim.org
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[20:45:35] <> mathieui, Link Mauve - the only conjecture I can make is that M-Link behaves differently with you guys because you have an affiliation.
[20:45:51] <> Darlan and I don't.
[20:46:13] <> Darlan and I, don't.
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[22:49:31] <> Cat, meet pigeons.
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