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[11:16:14] <> Hi! I would like to get the yaxim name (all lowercase) and url (http://yaxim.org/) updated on http://xmpp.org/xmpp-software/clients/ - thanks :D
[11:18:50] <> Ge0rG: I think we currently have some trouble updating that list, but I'm not sure of the details.
[11:19:39] <> Ge0rG: hold on, I check
[11:26:31] <> ya, this table is broken in wordpress for some reason :(
[11:33:02] <> Ge0rG: fixed, please check
[11:33:53] <> Alex: thanks very much
[11:34:01] <> it's perfect now :)
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[17:51:05] <> are there any standalone muc service software components?
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[17:53:10] <> Flow: Prosody's MUC can be used as a standalone component.
[17:53:23] <> waqas: thanks, will have a look
[17:53:41] <> Flow: There's a list of MUC implementations somewhere
[17:54:06] <> Flow: http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/technology-overview/muc/#impl
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[18:15:53] <> waqas: I am unable to find some info/documentation about using prosody's MUC component in a standalone configuration
[18:16:05] <> waqas:
[18:16:28] <> Flow: you might want to ask in the prosody chatroom
[18:16:30] <> Flow: You need to have at least one VirtualHost.
[18:16:39] <> localhost for example
[18:16:41] <> Zash: VirtualHost as in?
[18:17:12] <> waqas: Or do you mean as really a component?
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[18:17:36] <> Ah, sorry, should have described how. Prosody can act as a component using this plugin: https://code.google.com/p/prosody-modules/source/browse/mod_component_client/mod_component_client.lua
[18:18:13] <> waqas: I have a faint memory of MattJ writing code that allowed a prosody plugin to live outside of prosody
[18:18:15] <> I wrote it for a use-case where we had some Prosody plugins which we wanted to fork out as components for scalability/upgradeablity
[18:18:44] <> Zash: I wrote mod_component_client for that. It's working out quite nicely. We have it up in production right now.
[18:20:05] <> Flow: Also, do you actually need a component? A server can be configured for example.com, and a separate server can be configured for muc.example.com (this is true for Prosody, as well as other XMPP servers). So muc.example.com would just talk s2s with example.com, they don't need to be the same server.
[18:20:26] <> waqas: IIRC that was something like running prosody plugins in riddim
[18:20:34] <> err, verse*
[18:20:52] <> Zash: Ah, no, that's separate. We actually got rid of verse code (mod_component_client replaced it)
[18:21:03] <> Can you put a MUC in your roster?
[18:21:16] <> waqas: not sure if a need *only* a component, but I need only a muc service :)
[18:21:18] <> graham: You can put JIDs in your roster. MUCs have JIDs.
[18:21:42] <> But subscriptions ...
[18:22:01] <> Wouldn't that jid get sent presence when you login, causing you to autojoin?
[18:22:04] <> Flow: Configure Prosody by adding these lines to the config: VirtualHost "dummy" Component "muc.example.com" "muc"
[18:22:52] <> graham: Whether that JID is capable of accepting your subscription is a separate issue. The MUC spec says nothing about it, various implementations allow it. I think Prosody and ejabberd both allow it (by just returning presence, they don't maintain state)
[18:23:28] <> Zash: When someone subscribes, just tell them they are subscribed, and not do anything else. That's also how you can add normal hosts in Prosody in your roster.
[18:23:30] <> waqas: I don't think mod_presence is loaded on components
[18:24:36] <> Ah, no, I misremembered, Prosody MUC doesn't allow subscription (returns an error). Easy to fix, I thought I already had.
[18:25:17] <> Flow: So you add those lines, restart Prosody, and you should have a MUC running on muc.example.com (you need to configure DNS to point to Prosody of course)
[18:25:33] <> waqas: Thanks!
[18:25:36] <> Remove the other VirtualHosts that you don't need from the config. The dummy one is needed because Prosody needs one.
[18:25:44] <> And I didn't even realise this isn't the Prosody room :D
[18:26:02] <> waqas: DNS A or SRV records? or both?
[18:26:30] <> Florob: Remote servers trying to connect will first check SRV, and if missing will use A.
[18:26:40] <> So adding either one would work
[18:26:45] <> waqas, no
[18:26:52] <> stahp
[18:26:57] <> bad waqas
[18:27:02] <> Some docs: http://prosody.im/doc/dns
[18:27:16] <> the prosody community invades!
[18:27:42] <> wait, what?
[18:33:21] <> But even if you have a MUC in your roster and send it presence, you're still going to be joining with GC rather than MUC, with all the baggage and brokenness that brings.
[18:33:53] <> So you just don't want to do this, use bookmarks with auto-join set instead.
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[18:41:34] <> Kev: Thanks, I'd missed the fact that it would be a GC join.
[18:41:57] <> But the MUC wouldn't subscribe to your presence?
[18:42:14] <> Zash: A hacked MUC component could. That's what waqas was proposing doing, I think.
[18:42:25] <> Missed that
[18:42:42] <> If we're hacking MUC to do that, we might as well re-do MUC from scratch IMO :)
[18:43:03] <> I don't think there's much need. Bookmarks+autojoin will work well enough for almost all cases.
[18:43:33] <> Users do try adding chatrooms to their roster by the way. We get someone like that every now and then in the Prosody room.
[18:43:52] <> Yes.
[18:44:06] <> But then users also add "Kev" to their roster, without a hostname :)
[18:44:14] <> Right.
[18:44:21] <> I think client UI helps here.
[18:44:26] <> Yeah
[18:44:50] <> https://www.dropbox.com/s/waifkw9crjn3ert/Screenshot%202013-10-24%2019.44.47.png makes this less likely (although not foolproof)
[18:45:17] <> Yeah, that looks nice
[18:46:14] <> https://www.dropbox.com/s/i11cqxnz6hspk6q/Screenshot%202013-10-24%2019.46.20.png is cool, too (Tobias's work)
[18:46:31] <> That text edit in the middle is auto-completing.
[18:47:00] <> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hbgu86md2dxvinu/Screenshot%202013-10-24%2019.47.12.png
[18:47:14] <> Nice
[18:47:37] <> I'm a fan of auto-completion and other helpful non-modal assistance fwiw
[18:47:42] <> And if you select multiple people, it'll start a MUC, but it's hidden from the user that it's a MUC (imperfectly hidden at the moment), so it just looks like a chat with multiple people.
[18:48:14] <> And it shoves an extra payload in the invite, so the other clients know to autoaccept it.
[18:48:56] <> (Only works for people you have a presence sub to, otherwise it's treated like a normal invite and presented to the user)
[18:49:11] <> (So you don't get autojoined to MUCs by strangers)
[18:49:33] <> So, is that a bug or a feature? :)
[18:49:40] <> Feature.
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[18:52:48] <> why would you think that's a bug?
[18:54:34] <> It isn't
[18:54:59] <> Hmm, I met a lot of XMPP folks for the first time at the Summit this week.
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[18:55:18] <> Well, technically I hadn't met any XMPP folks in person before. It was interesting. All the arguments.
[19:01:06] <> Yea, sucks that I missed it.
[19:03:08] <> waqas: :-)
[19:03:21] <> waqas: actually we don't argue all the vehemently
[19:03:42] <> stpeter: I know :)
[19:04:04] <> waqas: but it was great to meet you in person!
[19:04:26] <> Likewise!
[19:04:28] <> waqas: and you got to meet some interesting people, like Fritzy ;-)
[19:04:38] <> Yes… :)
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[19:28:25] <> And I got to try talky across borders \o/
[19:28:39] <> (and see waqas in the process)
[19:29:48] <> Hi Florob
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[19:32:04] <> hmm, what's a "GC join"?
[19:32:23] <> The unspecified pre-MUC protocol.
[19:32:56] <> GroupChat
[19:33:02] <> ahh, k
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[19:43:08] <> interesting ... http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2013-October/018366.html ... "randomness from friends"
[19:43:13] <> another use for the buddy list
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[20:06:47] <> Isn't there a problem with that "randomness from friends", where you need the prng for the crypto, to communicate with them
[20:07:16] <> graham: did you read the post?
[20:07:16] <> It reads to me like the intention is that it could be unencrypted
[20:07:39] <> stpeter: Yes. "except that after the first time, you can use secure connections"
[20:07:50] <> which seemed to me to beg the question
[20:07:51] <> in essence, you'd need to bootstrap of course, but over time you might have stronger sources by asking people for some bits
[20:08:04] <> yeah that makes sense
[20:08:05] <> well, they're talking about hardware
[20:08:10] <> the flood idea is neat too
[20:08:11] <> e.g., a server machine
[20:08:33] <> I proposed using the buddy list for even more randomness
[20:08:39] <> or something like the buddy list
[20:08:55] <> I do like the idea of forcing an attacker to monitor multiple channels
[20:09:00] <> So if you have no friends...
[20:09:03] <> defense in depth
[20:09:09] <> waqas: :-)
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[20:36:19] <> could someone please update the latest release for Smack on xmpp.org→libraries? http://community.igniterealtime.org/blogs/ignite/2013/10/07/smack-331-is-released
[20:47:17] <> Oh and any dialback experts here? There http://community.igniterealtime.org/message/231666#231666 is a pretty good analysis of dialback between openfire and microsoft lync. I'd like to hear further opinions if the starttls send by lync is allowed as per specification.
[20:49:08] <> I really need to read up on lynx-xmpp interaction
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[20:53:57] <> We have been trying to set up Lync to test out s2s, but it's really painful to set up. They possibly rewrote it in Lync 2013.
[20:55:17] <> It wants three machines, one of which needs two network interfaces
[20:56:11] <> And there are fun things like parts refusing to install unless you have a lot of RAM and disk space (I think it was SQL server which refused to install with <1TB disk, even when you weren't using much disk at all)
[21:00:28] <> my company is using OWA with Lync
[21:01:02] <> even though we should know better, I seem to be the only one who cares about storing company secrets on US-american hardware.
[21:03:58] <> Indeed
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[21:07:50] <> Still looking for opinions if Lync's behavior as described in http://community.igniterealtime.org/message/231666#231666 complies with the specifications :)
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[21:21:17] <> I'm far too tired to think about 220 failures at the moment.
[21:21:53] <> But I don't understand what the comment about starttls was talking about, there's no starttls going on here.
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[21:24:24] <> Wait. Why is openfire sending stream features for no obvious reason?
[21:25:19] <> Someone who isn't on their way to bed can confirm, but that looks like Openfire doing strange things.
[21:25:59] <> And just that instead of cutting the stream, Lync is then replying with more strange things back.
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[22:17:55] <> Kev: there is a starttls in the Lync to openfire case send by lync
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[22:37:10] <> Now I know that gajim has decent RTL support ;)
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