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[01:34:24] <chaotickjg> I can't talk to GTalk from Jabber.org. Does anyone know if this is related to the encryption test, or possibly something else?
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[01:48:40] <spikey360> Are we having some issues talking to Google.com accounts? Because I can't seem to be able to send anything to any gtalk account.
[01:50:08] <chaotickjg> spikey360: i'm experiencing the same issue. It *might* be related to the encryption test (http://www.jabber.org/security.html), not 100% and still awaiting confirmation from someone else
[01:51:02] <chaotickjg> 100% sure*
[01:53:33] <spikey360> Ok, thanks for the confirmation :-)
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[01:58:02] <spikey360> Well, I tested with other xmpp services and gtalk, and I can say with reasonable confidence that it's not a Google-XMPP issue, well, not yet atleast. So, its gotta be a jabber.org-google issue.
[01:58:42] <spikey360> So yeah, perhaps related to encryption test
[01:59:39] <chaotickjg> How about between Jabber.org and the other non-Google XMPP services? (I can't test myself, I have only Google and Jabber.org)
[02:02:26] <spikey360> That works too
[02:03:38] <spikey360> So it's, perhaps a Google - jabber.org issue. Could some admins kindly clarify?
[02:07:20] <chaotickjg> Could be a Google-specific issue, I've had trouble with their Gtalk -> Outside communication in the past, though usually it's trouble connecting to MUC servers, not a complete d/c like this one
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[02:11:30] <chaotickjg> By the way, wasn't Google supposed to ditch XMPP because of some new feature on their Google+ site?
[02:11:34] <spikey360> It could well be a Google specific issue. Agreed that we have been having some downtime recently for encryption testing, but never this sort of specific issues.
[02:12:22] <spikey360> Yes, Google is supposed to do that on may 15 this year.
[02:12:39] <spikey360> Officially, at least.
[02:12:56] <spikey360> Google sucks nowadays.
[02:14:21] <chaotickjg> Okay, so it's not that. It's really stupid: it's bad enough they ruined Gmail, now their cutting us off from the rest of the world because they're too lazy to develop their own internal XMPP extension (like they did with Jingle for the video chat a few years ago)
[02:15:59] <spikey360> Yes. Very unfortunate. The reason they gave was pretty lame.
[02:16:33] <spikey360> Google was supposed to be this champion of sorts for open standards.
[02:17:16] <spikey360> And now, they are walking away from their own victories. Sigh.
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[02:19:39] <chaotickjg> That's typical of big-time corporations: they frequently abandon what is "good and holy" in the eyes of the public when they become too powerful for their own good
[02:20:19] <chaotickjg> Anyways, I'm in the discuss@conference.jabber.org channel if you want to continue this rant, I don't want to get us kicked out of this channel :-)
[02:21:17] <chaotickjg> (dunno if "channel" is the correct lingo here, i'm used to speaking in terms of IRC :-) )
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[05:53:16] <maikel> Hello everybody. I just tried to connect via ssl to conference.jabber.org (login) and got a certificate warning. Following the FAQ I installed the certificate from startssl.com. But it doesn't work. The certificate I downloaded is newer than the one used by jabber.org. Got it revoked?
[06:01:15] <maikel> okay, this happens with empathy but pidgin accepts the connection.
[06:10:06] <maikel> hm, since its working with pidgin, empathy is not supporting otr and nobody is answering here, I will stop using empathy and leave you alone. Have a nice day.
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[06:54:25] <spikey360> use TLS maikel
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[09:46:29] <Link Mauve> Kev, jabber.org is sending iq:ping to an unauthenticated connection if it stays inactive for a long time, but it returns a not-authorized stream:error if I answer to it.
[09:46:41] <Link Mauve> I think it’s a M-Link bug.
[09:48:07] <Kev> Bug in the sense of "you shouldn't be doing that' :)
[09:48:42] <Link Mauve> Hey, I can keep my netcat session open all day long if I want. :p
[09:49:06] <Kev> I'd consider it abuse against j.org to have unauthenticated sessions held open.
[09:49:38] <Link Mauve> Btw when I send an iq:register despite it not being offered in the stream features, I receive a bad-namespace-prefix stream error.
[09:49:56] <Link Mauve> Pidgin apparently doesn’t care about stream features and tries to register nonetheless.
[09:50:34] <Link Mauve> I’m sure it’s a bug in Pidgin, but M-Link could also return a text element describing the error so that the user won’t be lost.
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[10:20:00] <Kev> Link Mauve: You'd like support added for a feature we don't support, and which we don't say we support, so that clients that don't listen to what the server says will be able to pay attention to the error we send when it tries to use a feature we don't support.
[10:20:24] <Link Mauve> Exactly. :D
[10:20:37] <Kev> Can't say it's top of my team's priorities.
[10:20:41] <Link Mauve> Of course.
[10:23:10] <Link Mauve> I will report a bug to Pidgin at least, it shouldn’t be doing that.
[10:32:04] <Neustradamus> I think that xmpp.net always bugs, look here: https://xmpp.net/list.php
[10:33:10] <Kev> Yes, I think that's probably true. Looks like the observatory isn't compatible with the latest PHP, so the system upgrade yesterday broke it.
[10:34:03] <Neustradamus> :/
[10:34:45] <Kev> I imagine Thijs will fix it when he has time - I spent a lot of time on this yesterday, I got it at least as far as it is now (it originally was much more broken).
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[15:16:44] <chaotickjg> Anybody else still having issues talking to GTalk?
[15:18:39] <PaulFertser> Yep
[15:18:55] <PaulFertser> Google decided to not enable security for s2s links.
[15:19:08] <PaulFertser> http://xmpp.org/2014/02/second-security-test-day/
[15:19:53] <chaotickjg> I thought the test was supposed to be yesterday?
[15:23:17] <PaulFertser> I do not see the timezone mentioned there. And anyway apparently Google decided to betray their users, so for proper xmpp service one should better switch to some saner server, I think.
[15:24:01] <chaotickjg> I am on a saner server: jabber.org ;-)
[15:24:07] <Kev> You're right, we enabled yesterday and didn't disable. I've now disabled that setting.
[15:25:06] <chaotickjg> Unfortunately, until I can convince all my contacts to switch, I still need to connect to GTalk
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[15:26:32] <chaotickjg> O.o
[15:27:14] <spikey360> Not getting Gtalk presence either.
[15:27:50] <Kev> GTalk is known to blacklist servers for a while if it can't S2S to them. I expect this will have happened to j.org. I imagine it'll fix itself soon enough.
[15:31:32] <chaotickjg> Seems GTalk is working correctly now
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[15:37:58] <spikey360> oh well, it is working now, I can see Gtalk users' presence data, I can send/receive IMs correctly, and can also Audio Call the contact.
[15:38:52] <spikey360> Although this whole episode has left me even more unsatisfied about Google, why won't they encrypt S2S? :|
[15:39:31] <chaotickjg> spikey360: audio calling to GTalk? From Jabber.org?
[15:39:57] <spikey360> Oh, yes. I use empathy, and my contact uses that Gtalk app on Android.
[15:40:10] <chaotickjg> I think it's obvious why they won't encrypt: they're eventually abandoning XMPP
[15:40:26] <chaotickjg> Empathy?
[15:40:44] <spikey360> Yeah, Empathy. The IM client.
[15:41:53] <chaotickjg> Never heard of it. Using Psi+ here, it supports voice/video calling, but haven't figured out how to use it with GTalk
[15:43:34] <spikey360> I see. Well, I've not heard of Psi+. But if you want to talk to a Gtalk contact, your IM client has to implement libjingle
[15:43:49] <spikey360> the XMPP extension from Google
[15:43:56] <chaotickjg> It does support libjingle
[15:45:25] <spikey360> I see. Well ask in Psi+ community, perhaps. When I used Empathy and logged in using my gmail credentials, voice chat didn't work either
[15:45:47] <spikey360> but since I switched to jabber.org login, it works
[15:45:53] <spikey360> strangely enough.
[15:46:20] <chaotickjg> Psi+ is basically Psi plus some of the features from their development branch which have stabilized but haven't made it to the official Psi client
[15:51:21] <spikey360> Hey chaotickjg, you wouldn't happen to know about any open source Android app which implements libjingle, would you? (Save for the Gtalk app)
[15:51:37] <Kev> Do you mean libjingle or Jingle? These are two confusingly named but different things.
[15:52:13] <spikey360> Kev, well the XMPP extension from google which allows voice chat, that one :p
[15:52:26] <Kev> Right, that is, of itself, confused :)
[15:52:40] <chaotickjg> spikey360: i'm probably one of the worst people to ask about Android, I *hate* smart phones and tablets
[15:53:59] <spikey360> Ah, chaotickjg. I don't like them much either. Mainly because they are overhyped, and you can't build one yourself.
[15:54:18] <spikey360> Well, at least I can't :p
[15:54:29] <chaotickjg> Usually anything prefixed with "lib" refers to a library used by software
[15:55:04] <chaotickjg> So using that logic, Jingle would be a service, and libjingle is a library which allows connecting to Jingle
[15:55:16] <Kev> Except it's a bit more confusing than that :)
[15:55:25] <spikey360> Alright then, yes, Jingle.
[15:56:01] <Kev> Libjingle didn't originally implement Jingle. I think it now does.
[15:56:11] <Kev> And I think at least most of the GTalk stuff got upgraded to Jingle as well.
[15:56:35] <spikey360> O.o
[15:56:47] <spikey360> That's confusing. Agreed :)
[15:57:18] <chaotickjg> spikey360: have you heard of Android-x86? It's a version of Anroid compatible with x86-based CPUs, so technically you can build your own Android device :-)
[15:58:29] <chaotickjg> Kev: if libjingle wasn't for jingle, what was it for? O.o
[16:00:01] <spikey360> ok, android_x86, but that's only the software part, that's the least of my worries. Suppose I want to assemble my own smartphone, like my PC, we can't do that, not yet.
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[16:00:15] <spikey360> i've heard about Raspberry Pi, though.
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[16:01:22] <chaotickjg> Dumb question: what's Raspberry Pi? I've heard of it, but I don't know what it is
[16:01:33] <Kev> A small ARM-based PC from the UK.
[16:02:03] <spikey360> Basically a motherboard, crudely speaking.
[16:02:31] <Kev> Well, it's CPU, memory, vidc too.
[16:02:44] <Kev> Put an SD card in, and it's a PC.
[16:03:15] <chaotickjg> Sounds like a semi-complete computer
[16:03:32] <Kev> And they're about £20.
[16:03:35] <spikey360> See, that's what I meant previously, there is still no way to interchange CPU or add on memory modules (unless you are a hardware guru)
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[16:06:05] <chaotickjg> Seems rather cheap, and cheap isn't always good when it comes to hardware
[16:07:09] <Link Mauve> I chose this one instead, a bit more expensive (I paid 50€) but it’s much more powerful: https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/A10/A10-OLinuXino-LIME/
[16:07:27] <Kev> It's meant to be something for learning to code with. Something cheap so there's no chance of kids breaking anything important.
[16:07:48] <Link Mauve> Much more powerful and based on a free design.
[16:07:50] <Kev> Although they're also tremendously useful for doing odd things about the house, like hosting DHCP or DNS or whatever.
[16:08:22] <chaotickjg> I can learn to code with a laptop, or my open source network router :-)
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[16:39:58] <PaulFertser> Cubieboard is a very interesting rpi competitor too.
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[20:55:08] <jan> hi, just a short test for my ejabberd connection
[20:55:23] <jan> ?OTRv2? Your contact is requesting to start an encrypted chat. Please install ChatSecure (aka Gibberbot; Android/iOS), Pidgin (Win/Linux), Adium (Mac) or other encryption-enabled app. Learn more at: http://otr.cypherpunks.ca
[20:55:23] <jan> ?OTR:AAICAAAAxDUE0CRaR6zk8mnDMk3VkBl5ByaS9U/agd9hZ6j7AUpEbf4Ro9k7ARkqJvcsnJUlDsRGQGf15Yu0u1PQ3GNHlw6m8nLfAMhOFWiat0iUvikRcs0LYl5t2gUD7Amo3tlN2lrA4qJEuSZFA5xnw7P7pSquU6v8dFwuRq7RxDwPQJhh9YGO52U1hL5hv+ITxYn8KRQ39R+zp6Y6MtmZmU1eyMf1tl8FFesJfKc6wqpJ3ObFkR4BT8McfpY83SAW1v1haMAHZOwAAAAg2NSjcnb6tXkUoVSmtJ7izOW5z+gh/kFhJ9LDU5L/8FQ=.
[20:56:13] <jan> test
[20:57:00] <jan> ?OTRv2? Your contact is requesting to start an encrypted chat. Please install ChatSecure (aka Gibberbot; Android/iOS), Pidgin (Win/Linux), Adium (Mac) or other encryption-enabled app. Learn more at: http://otr.cypherpunks.ca
[20:57:00] <jan> ?OTR:AAICAAAAxISvY9W+HfBgGAaYwLb4C3C0E8pyiFt2QCa9t4maRBh9WEstNiBYD6BXRD3OzhzByTLLswYY3vNvVWv6gU6HvCUD4rEX7barEdq23G2zLXaeMWmNUGfK5KQ+l8Nsb2TAfHm+pH1UdPrXkiV3Y4LT5Jdt/h5rrSUn4Dg0VVjZdbux24kgAT+Yf+KnWfamsw4oJrDL1O3OKqGwPyq+qccM177/RIOtC56k/LOiEpeN+qASjeihdtWZTXbllCHSElBdsMpZHi0AAAAgg7DyqWCtPOqHfYsddnfSHytrNy5jwK2CR8wpPCUeF/w=.
[20:57:38] <chaotickjg> While your testing, you might want to read http://www.jabber.org/security.html . That will explain the server-to-server encryption plan, so you're not caught off guard if your ejabberd install suddenly stops connecting to the outside :-)
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