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[09:22:22] <seckindurgay> hi, which jabber server do you advice?
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[16:52:44] <MattJ> Muahahahahaa
[16:52:49] <MattJ> Looks like I'm coming to the summit
[16:54:10] <Tobias> oh noes
[16:54:11] <Tobias> ;)
[16:54:52] <MattJ> First time I've attended one in the US, so now I can compare the difference
[16:56:11] <Tobias> hopefully they'll play on equal fields with regard to weather :)
[16:57:39] <psa> MattJ: excellent!!
[16:58:08] <psa> MattJ: BTW, I have a protoXEP ready for ad-hoc commands + multi-user chat
[16:59:22] <MattJ> Exciting! Happy to review that when it's ready
[17:00:28] <psa> I think we first talked about that a few years ago -- I might even work on "hats" before long, too
[17:00:51] <Tobias> ah...i remember the "hats" discussion
[17:01:19] <MattJ> The main problem with commands on MUCs was being able to distinguish commands on the room (e.g. "clear history") from commands on occupants ("e.g. report this user as a spammer")
[17:01:49] <psa> oh, clear history, another good example :)
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[17:19:41] <psa> MattJ: I envision that we'd be able to use this for commands across the whole service, too (e.g., ban user from all rooms)
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[17:24:47] <MattJ> psa, right
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[17:49:08] <psa> well, there's an initial version
[17:49:16] <psa> let the bashing begin ;-)
[17:49:45] <psa> brb
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[18:59:52] <tamwyn> is anyone here who can tell me a good gpl/apache lezensed java xmpp web client for muc?
[19:00:59] <psa> yowza
[19:01:34] <psa> tamwyn: you want to run this on the server?
[19:01:47] <psa> tamwyn: most web clients are using javascript these days, not java
[19:02:32] <tamwyn> yes
[19:02:40] <tamwyn> but the background ist java
[19:04:20] <tamwyn> the idea is an xmpp based chat for a website with some more tools. so i an open source code to write some tools by myself
[19:04:50] <tamwyn> but i want to have an main construction already developed and working
[19:05:48] <tamwyn> i watched sparkweb but it doesn't worked right. I watched the code but i don't prefer flash
[19:06:28] <psa> yeah, stay away from Flash :)
[19:06:43] <tamwyn> it's much to expensive
[19:08:52] <psa> the best approach might be to try updating sparkweb
[19:12:04] <tamwyn> i downloaed the newest version
[19:12:44] <tamwyn> im thinking about using pjirc an make it xmpp ready
[19:13:15] <tamwyn> but it will be very elaborate
[19:24:12] <tamwyn> how could a js working with xmpp musn't there any software (the server an something other) in the background to work right. otherwise everybody can see my code an try to destroy the chat
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[19:25:22] <tamwyn> <applet name="applet" code=IRCApplet.class archive="irc.jar,pixx.jar" width=640 height=400> that is a port from pjirc
[19:26:24] <tamwyn> when i remove the jar files an the names and take my own jar applet than it coukd work
[19:26:28] <tamwyn> maybe
[19:28:51] <psa> hmm
[19:29:03] <psa> I haven't played with any of that code in a long time, if ever...
[19:29:04] <psa> brb
[19:30:04] <deryni> js chat clients are just xmpp clients like any other xmpp client and they talk to an xmpp server the way other xmpp clients do.
[19:32:05] <tamwyn> so in theory i can take the code from an java xmpp client in my client use some own codes and than use an js for the website?
[19:36:35] <tamwyn> it only must be working with muc
[19:37:32] <psa> bbiab
[19:37:52] <deryni> I'm not sure why you would want both a java and a js client.
[19:38:46] <tamwyn> because of i think taht there must be a client loaded from the js
[19:39:13] <tamwyn> if that is wrong itwould be nice an i only mut use java script but i don't think so
[19:40:35] <tamwyn> I watched the code from pjirc an there is like this way. Maybe in xmpp it is other but anywhere must be the code to load everythink etc. an js can't do that. Than it will be php too
[19:41:15] <tamwyn> and when i code everythink in a website everybody can see my code an maybe find a way how to break in my system
[19:42:04] <deryni> The entire client can be written in javascript.
[19:42:08] <deryni> A number of such clients exist.
[19:42:32] <deryni> And if access to a client allowed break-ins then no clients would ever be able to exist.
[19:42:41] <deryni> No open source clients that is.
[19:43:04] <deryni> The js client doesn't even have to be written specifically for your server if you don't need a special purpose client.
[19:45:20] <tamwyn> there mus be a connection between the xmpp server ( i think openfire) an my client. An everythink in js an php?
[19:45:44] <tamwyn> *everything
[19:48:23] <deryni> Yes, there is a connection between js and your server. A normal xmpp (in this case bosh) connection.
[19:48:30] <deryni> The js code is just an xmpp client.
[19:48:40] <deryni> It sends xmpp stanzas and receives xmpp stanzas.
[19:50:20] <tamwyn> ok are there already js' like that
[19:54:14] <deryni> There are a number of js clients, yes.
[19:54:28] <deryni> I believe candy is one of the newer muc-focused ones though I don't know much more than that about it.
[19:55:24] <tamwyn> ok thanls but candy has an strange license
[19:57:56] <MattJ> Really? I thought it was MIT
[19:58:46] <psa> maybe some people think that MIT is strange :)
[19:58:47] <MattJ> It is MIT: https://github.com/candy-chat/candy/blob/master/LICENSE
[19:58:52] <tamwyn> yes i think mit is strange
[19:58:55] <MattJ> Ok :D
[19:58:57] <psa> heh
[19:59:02] <MattJ> It's a great licence
[19:59:11] <tamwyn> apache or gpl
[19:59:13] <psa> yeah, MIT rocks
[20:00:57] <deryni> MIT may be not ideal but it definitely isn't strange.
[20:01:02] <deryni> Though I personally love it.
[20:01:22] <tamwyn> i prefer gpl
[20:02:26] <psa> tamwyn: to each his own
[20:02:27] <tamwyn> but i allowed to use the code and work on it right?
[20:02:33] <MattJ> tamwyn, absolutely
[20:02:39] <MattJ> You're allowed to do anything you like with it
[20:02:45] <MattJ> unlike GPL ;)
[20:02:48] <psa> heehee
[20:02:57] <psa> software freedom!
[20:03:16] <tamwyn> delete ;-)
[20:03:42] <MattJ> The dual meaning of freedom as it applies to GPL and MIT-style licences intrigues me
[20:04:05] <psa> MattJ: what we need is a frithful license ;-)
[20:04:12] <MattJ> Besides the perfect fuel for an internet flamewar spanning decades, it's quite interesting
[20:04:22] <psa> MattJ: indeed
[20:06:20] <tamwyn> ok i will work with candy im already searching the login part and the connection part.
[20:12:25] <tamwyn> what is a better server application enjabberd or openfire openfire has an better administrtion tool i think
[20:14:12] <deryni> They both have their issues but beyond its admin tool I don't know of a strength of openfire.
[20:14:22] <psa> deryni: it's in Java!
[20:14:48] <tamwyn> ok i try both and than i choose the one i will use
[20:14:55] <psa> tamwyn: what are your requirements? 1 million concurrent users? easy administration? runs on Windows? etc.?
[20:15:01] <psa> tamwyn: personally I like Prosody :)
[20:15:10] <psa> that's what I run for my personal server
[20:15:23] <deryni> Yeah. I was going to suggest that but the 'web admin' seeming to be a plus made me hesitate.
[20:15:28] <psa> :)
[20:16:46] <MattJ> Openfire definitely has the nicest web admin (Prosody will be there one day soon!)
[20:16:52] <MattJ> Just make sure you run it behind a firewall
[20:17:02] <MattJ> The number of security exploits found in it over the years is scary
[20:17:07] <tamwyn> i don't know how many users there will be. but there is the muc website client. It will be used the most
[20:17:26] <tamwyn> there os of the server ill be debian i think wheezy
[20:17:53] <tamwyn> i believe in iptables
[20:18:07] <psa> "in iptables we trust" ;-)
[20:18:49] <deryni> iptables doesn't help when the exploits come over the channel you are explicitely allowing.
[20:21:18] <tamwyn> and when i set it so that only users with the jid name @example.com can use the muc channel and example is my domain
[20:21:35] <tamwyn> i will look for a firewall i had to go to bed
[20:22:27] <psa> tamwyn: ok, thanks for visiting!
[20:23:22] <deryni> That doesn't help if the server exploit is pre-auth/etc. (I don't know if they were I don't pay much attention to openfire).
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[20:32:24] <tamwyn> someday i will come back i saved the direction in pidgin
[20:33:00] <tamwyn> and im looking for a good server tool primary i had to work with candy
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