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[11:50:13] <Bartek> Hi
[11:51:13] <Bartek> Is somewhere list of all known CAPS of clients?
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[13:55:38] <naw> Bartek: there is a registrar of the xmpp features and identities, but not of capabilities, at least as far I know
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[14:31:10] <Bartek> naw: I just want to identify clients and show icon in roster
[14:36:15] <Asterix> We have a plugin for that in Gajim. There is the code: http://trac-plugins.gajim.org/browser/clients_icons/clients_icons.py and the icons: http://trac-plugins.gajim.org/browser/clients_icons/icons
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[14:53:16] <naw> Bartek: also, there is a software version XEP, with it you can ask clinets, servers, and so on, which software, version and OS do they use
[14:54:12] <psa> I've thought about creating a caps registry, because it would provide another way to check the results
[14:54:18] <Asterix> if client haven't disab;ed that option ...
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[14:56:05] <naw> yes, some clients don't give all the info
[14:56:37] <psa> it seems that some clients don't advertise support for disco, either ;-)
[14:56:59] <naw> and also, to use the software version xep means that you will generate more network traffic
[14:57:06] <ralphm> When using internationalized domain names in combination with Digest MD5, do you have punycode the domain labels before creating a realm and digest_uri from the domain?
[14:57:09] <psa> naw: true
[14:57:37] <psa> ralphm: that's probably unspecified along with so many other things in Digest MD5 :(
[14:58:04] <ralphm> psa: I was afraid of this answer.
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[14:59:15] <psa> /me checks some relevant specs
[15:00:21] <psa> /me notes that http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2831 has been obsoleted by http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6331 "Moving DIGEST-MD5 to Historic"
[15:00:55] <Bartek> psa: caps registry is great idea
[15:01:45] <ralphm> psa: yeah, well, somebody filed a ticket to Twisted, which fails if you have a non-ascii username or password
[15:02:30] <ralphm> psa: it has a patch attached that I'm reviewing, and it turns out that /they/ are encoded, but the realm and digest_uri are not.
[15:02:48] <ralphm> psa: so the patch is probably wrong when just encoding the realm
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[15:05:01] <psa> ralphm: looking at RFC 2831, I see that a realm is basically a sequence of octets, where "OCTET" is defined as <any 8-bit sequence of data>
[15:05:20] <ralphm> yeah, I saw that
[15:05:38] <psa> however: The TEXT rule is only used for descriptive field contents and values that are not intended to be interpreted by the message parser. Words of *TEXT MAY contain characters from character sets other than ISO-8859-1 [ISO 8859] only when encoded according to the rules of RFC 2047 [RFC 2047].
[15:06:02] <psa> so UTF-8 isn't really possible here
[15:06:19] <psa> because I haven't seen anything about charsets in digest-md5
[15:06:34] <psa> well
[15:06:35] <psa> never mind
[15:06:42] <ralphm> you can specify a charset
[15:06:45] <psa> yes
[15:06:47] <psa> I see that now
[15:06:47] <ralphm> so yeah, you can
[15:07:13] <psa> messy stuff
[15:07:17] <ralphm> I'm just wondering if one should just encode to the charset or not
[15:08:06] <psa> but yes, it seems that you *could* include U-labels if you specified UTF-8, however there's more to i18n than UTF-8 for sure, and I think punycode is probably safer here
[15:08:26] <psa> e.g., it wouldn't surprise me if there are interop issues with charsets in digest-md5
[15:09:28] <ralphm> very likely
[15:09:46] <ralphm> I was hoping to find some client and/or server devs in here
[15:09:53] <ralphm> like Kev
[15:10:50] <psa> I think Kev is probably taking a well-deserved break
[15:11:06] <psa> he did quite a bit on the jabber.org DDoS earlier this week
[15:11:10] <deryni> What's the question/issue? (I'm probably not going to be much help without spending time I don't have at the moment refreshing my memory because digest-md5 is such a pain that I never remember the details for long after I look at it.)
[15:11:44] <psa> deryni: internationalized domain names in digest-md5, ick :)
[15:11:48] <psa> (for realms)
[15:12:03] <ralphm> deryni: do the realm and digest-md5 parameters in Digest MD-5 get encoded in punicode?
[15:12:07] <ralphm> puny
[15:12:35] <ralphm> or are they just encoded to whatever encoding is requested?
[15:12:42] <ralphm> (usually utf-8, I hope)
[15:13:20] <ralphm> I meant digest-uri, by the way. Part of it has the server host name.
[15:14:58] <Asterix> ralphm: is it what youre looking for? http://hg.gajim.org/gajim/file/2d08ef345ad2/src/common/xmpp/auth_nb.py#l475
[15:15:35] <Asterix> with http://hg.gajim.org/gajim/file/2d08ef345ad2/src/common/xmpp/auth_nb.py#l457
[15:15:47] <Tobias_> digest-md5 should be avoided if possible :)
[15:15:58] <psa> Tobias_: indeed
[15:17:04] <ralphm> Asterix: well, that's your implementation. You guys don't appear to use puny code. But I can't tell if you have issues with IDNs?
[15:17:14] <ralphm> Tobias_: oh I wish
[15:18:13] <Tobias_> psa, btw: in all those HTTP 2.0 discussion, have there ever come up the topic of reworking HTTP authenticaiton
[15:22:05] <Asterix> yep, only our implementation of course. It's relaed to this ticket: https://trac.gajim.org/ticket/5512 so it was not for IDNs but for non-ascii chars
[15:22:46] <ralphm> Asterix: you should fix that site's cert
[15:23:20] <ralphm> but yeah, the password and username are already encoded
[15:23:38] <ralphm> the trouble came in because of the concatenation of strings
[15:23:49] <Asterix> ha yep it expired some days ago :)
[15:24:26] <ralphm> That's some days to long, slacker :-D
[15:24:30] <ralphm> too
[15:26:15] <psa> Tobias_: for sure, but it seems that people might shunt that off to a different working group, in the security area
[15:26:52] <ralphm> psa: is that code for "we don't want to think about this"?
[15:27:05] <psa> ralphm: I'm afraid so
[15:27:43] <ralphm> given the whole development around OAuth 2.0, my hopes are not too high
[15:27:51] <psa> hmm
[15:28:20] <psa> well then perhaps your expectations will be exceeded :)
[15:29:06] <psa> /me wanders off for a short meeting
[15:33:17] <Asterix> ralphm: cert updated :)
[15:33:59] <ralphm> psa: that'd be awesome
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[15:39:29] <Kev> I think Kev is probably taking a well-deserved break psa @ 16:10
[15:39:30] <Kev> If only
[15:39:42] <Kev> Kev was up at 04:00 this morning and out of the house soon after.
[15:39:57] <psa> s/think/hope/ :)
[15:40:30] <Tobias_> 4:00....ouch
[15:41:06] <Kev> And yet I'm back in time for the GSoC meeting.
[15:41:11] <Kev> Wonders never cease.
[15:42:21] <Tobias_> Kev, while we're on the topic of wonders: jrtplib is integrated + tests are passing again
[15:42:22] <Tobias_> :)
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[15:43:12] <Kev> Oooh, nice.
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[16:42:29] <ralphm> Kev, if you're not on a break, please enlighten me about the Digest MD5 question?
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[16:43:09] <Kev> If it's anything to do with Digest MD5 I won't know the answer :)
[16:43:27] <Kev> Was it whether to punycode the domain first?
[16:43:30] <psa> heehee
[16:43:38] <ralphm> Kev: yeah
[16:43:46] <Tobias_> and what was the question?
[16:43:57] <Tobias_> ah..nvm
[16:44:19] <ralphm> I found this thread, but that doesn't quite help:
[16:44:19] <ralphm> http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/summit/2012-February/001054.html
[16:44:23] <Kev> I don't remember that being specified, although it's a while since I read the spec.
[16:45:01] <ralphm> seeing punycode in attribute values seems utterly wrong, though
[16:45:22] <Tobias_> yup
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[16:48:25] <psa> seeing punycode always feels wrong
[16:48:40] <Tobias_> prosody's sasl lib doesn't de-punycode it before passing it to prosody's auth api
[16:52:17] <Kev> I remember there being charset stuff in digest-md5, but not exactly what it was.
[16:52:31] <Kev> Although I do remember that you have to ignore what it says and do something different if you want to interoperate.
[16:53:44] <Tobias_> Kev, there is charset stuff, but a lot clients lie there
[16:53:44] <psa> digest-md5 in a nutshell :)
[16:54:05] <Tobias_> + the ignoring kev's mentioned
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[17:00:49] <ralphm> so just encoding and forget about punycode
[17:00:56] <ralphm> ok
[17:01:19] <Tobias_> yup
[17:01:42] <Tobias_> or are you having interop problems when ignoring punycode
[17:01:42] <Tobias_> ?
[17:02:35] <ralphm> http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ticket/5066#comment:6
[17:02:39] <ralphm> just reviewing that patch
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[17:22:49] <Tobias_> sadly no other-side implementation mentioned
[18:55:33] <ralphm> bah, just reread the section on parameters, especially how digest-uri should be formed out of serv-type, host and optionally serv-name
[18:56:17] <ralphm> basically it says that if you have an SRV record for example.com pointing to host1.example.com, the digest-uri you need to send it: xmpp/example.com/host1.example.com
[18:57:21] <Lance> digest-md5 is fun :/
[18:57:29] <ralphm> I wonder how many implementations (server side) actually check this
[18:57:45] <Lance> i know facebook's does
[18:58:11] <Lance> (I was accidentally sending the ip as serv-name for a bit)
[18:58:28] <ralphm> really? That'd mean that wokkel can't connect to facebook. It would send xmpp/chat.facebook.com
[18:58:39] <ralphm> without the serv-name part
[18:58:53] <deryni> Checking when you send one and not caring when you don't aren't exactly the same thing.
[18:59:12] <Lance> right, facebook didn't care if I didn't send one
[18:59:27] <Lance> but sending one that wasn't the expected value was rejected
[18:59:29] <ralphm> probably because most clients don't send it
[18:59:48] <ralphm> unfortunately, we don't have any examples in our RFCs
[18:59:56] <Lance> interestingly, jabber.org didn't mind getting an ip address as serv-name
[19:00:03] <ralphm> bar the one in 3920, that only shows xmpp/example.org
[19:00:11] <deryni> I know cyrus explicitely doesn't check.
[19:00:41] <deryni> And I believe dwd told me at one point that the digest-md5 experts he knows strongly recommend not checking as it caused all sorts of problems.
[19:00:51] <ralphm> right
[19:02:02] <deryni> ejabberd has weird behaviour with its checking that I don't think I ever fully understood.
[19:02:28] <ralphm> it is interesting how many times I read that
[19:02:32] <ralphm> on different features
[19:02:41] <deryni> Heh.
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