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[14:52:23] <Tobias> anybody know if jitsi devs have a chatroom?
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[15:00:32] <Zash> Tobias, yes, on IRC
[15:00:42] <Tobias> irk... ;)
[15:00:44] <Tobias> where?
[15:01:14] <Zash> freenode, #jitsi I think
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[15:17:59] <Tobias> thx
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[20:39:31] <pks> Are there XMPP servers that implement server-side, queryable log storage?
[20:40:42] <MattJ> Yes
[20:41:01] <MattJ> Either ejabberd through XEP-0136 or Prosody through XEP-0313
[20:41:26] <pks> MattJ: thank, I'll take a look.
[20:41:44] <MattJ> Both have it only via plugins
[20:41:53] <pks> Well, that was expected.
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[20:56:11] <xnyhps> Hey pks. :)
[20:58:53] <pks> xnyhps: 'morning ;)
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[21:19:18] <pks> MattJ: you know any client already supporting XEP-0313?
[21:19:40] <MattJ> No IM client, Zash has an implementation for Verse
[21:19:46] <MattJ> (Lua XMPP library)
[21:20:22] <pks> Okay.
[21:22:11] <Zash> I have some simple tool I used to test said implementation, if that qualifies as a client :)
[21:24:08] <pks> Well, I bet that's not something that can be categorized as 'usable' :P
[21:24:21] <pks> At least not for day-to-day chatting.
[21:24:32] <Zash> Heh, no :)
[21:25:42] <Zash> Swift will probably get it after this summers GSoC
[21:25:43] <pks> Guess I'll write a Pidgin/libpurple plugin then.
[21:26:08] <xnyhps> pks: The spec isn't really well-suited for synchronizing logs, in my opinion.
[21:26:24] <pks> xnyhps: why that?
[21:26:28] <Zash> > server-side, queryable log storage
[21:26:38] <Zash> 313 is *only* that
[21:26:46] <pks> And yes, that's what I initially wanted to have.
[21:26:53] <xnyhps> There's no way to say "I already have these messages, give me everything else"
[21:27:46] <pks> xnyhps: mhh... guess I don't want things like that. But I'll consider it.
[21:28:13] <xnyhps> So writing something that views *just* the logs on the server makes some sense.
[21:28:28] <pks> You mean something like a standalone-client?
[21:28:51] <Zash> Something like the cli test tool I made, but nice and shiny?
[21:29:02] <xnyhps> Dunno, web-interface, Zash's script, that sort of thing.
[21:29:34] <Zash> I was planning to write a bosh based thingy
[21:31:03] <pks> xnyhps: but I think for primitive cases it might even be possible to use 313 for syncing. At least you can filter by time, so just specify from time of last message received until now.
[21:31:23] <pks> But sure, could be better.
[21:32:00] <Zash> There's nothing in the spec that says that it has to be the server that does the logging and storage :)
[21:32:53] <MattJ> xnyhps, considering one of 313's stated primary use-cases is history sync... what do you think it could do better?
[21:32:56] <Zash> You could have a bot that uses Carbons to get all your conversations and expose 313 to you
[21:35:28] <pks> Zash: I'd even want to go in a similar direction: keep all accounts online 24/7 and log everything. Guess that'd be a great feature combined with gateways.
[21:37:30] <xnyhps> MattJ: It would help if a client could find out the ID of the message it just sent.
[21:39:18] <MattJ> xnyhps, that's just about the only thing that it can't do, so you get some duplicates - you can easily discard messages you don't have an id for when you sync
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[21:39:44] <MattJ> In practice that's going to be 0-(a few) messages that are unnecessarily duplicated
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[21:41:28] <pks> G2g now. Thanks for the info.
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[21:48:35] <xnyhps> Hmm. I suppose that would work.
[21:48:51] <xnyhps> You can of course re-sync every couple of minutes to get the correct IDs
[21:49:22] <MattJ> That's true, but then it would be preferable to push the IDs rather than have the client poll
[21:49:34] <MattJ> Are you on the standards list? I wrote a post about it
[21:49:46] <xnyhps> Yeah, I read it.
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[21:50:06] <MattJ> The only reason I left it at this because it just about works is because I can't come up with a solution that feels much cleaner
[21:50:27] <Tobias> MattJ, did normal tip url change?
[21:51:36] <Tobias> nvm..some gui playing trickssss on me
[21:51:41] <Tobias> nvm..some gui playing tricks on me
[21:52:34] <xnyhps> I guess the problem I have mostly comes down to: I want the client to log as much as possible itself. We log more then the server-side logs give us (status changes, disconnects), and if you start mixing those, you can get timestamps that are out of order.
[21:53:15] <MattJ> That indeed might be an issue
[21:54:14] <xnyhps> Suppose my clock is 5 minutes off. If we log everything from the other party directly (with the ID we have), and throw away our local logs, and then get our own messages from the server, then we can't put the conversation back together the way it was.
[21:54:55] <Zash> There is a XEP for asking someone what their clock is, that might help
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