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[06:41:22] <buchanan42788> The register.jabber.org page is giving Error 102 (net::ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED): The server refused the connection.
[06:43:01] <Kev> http://www.jabber.org/2012/03/user-registration-problems/
[06:43:40] <buchanan42788> ah, thanks
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[12:11:13] <[rg24]michael> hi. do i remember correctly, arent reg problems on jabber org kind of regular occurence?
[12:11:39] <[rg24]michael> guess i saw that months ago already
[12:17:48] <[rg24]michael> A different topic - managing xmpp-rooms with lots of users. Are there things one needs to know, besides functions like kick, ban and voice moderation? I mean, something that only experience teaches, or bots?
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[12:18:44] <[rg24]michael> or in other words, "do things get ugly at some point of user count", i wonder...
[12:19:42] <[rg24]michael> i havent seen more than, lets say, 30-40 users in one room in xmpp, and those were more or less experienced/civilized people
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[12:25:09] <MattJ> [rg24]michael, no problems with registration since register.jabber.org was put up, as far as I know
[12:25:59] <MattJ> I have a ~50 user room, and it's ok
[12:26:06] <[rg24]michael> hmm. Sometimes the site wasnt available, too.
[12:26:08] <MattJ> But they are, as you say, mostly civilized :)
[12:26:27] <[rg24]michael> 50, ok. thats managable, if they behave
[12:26:28] <MattJ> Oh, there may have been a short downtime of the web server a while back, you're right
[12:27:12] <[rg24]michael> my concern was about telling someone about registering at jabber.org, and if its their first time, usually, arriving at a dead end will turn them away immediately
[12:27:32] <MattJ> Yes, that's why we posted the update last night
[12:27:33] <[rg24]michael> yesterdayi couldnt load j org for some time, one to three hours
[12:27:58] <[rg24]michael> MattJ, are you in their team?
[12:28:02] <MattJ> Yes
[12:28:04] <[rg24]michael> ok
[12:28:25] <MattJ> We're working on a second web server, so we can balance load and keep the site running when one fails
[12:28:53] <MattJ> The current issue hasn't been figured out yet, but it seems to be ok with register.jabber.org turned off, so it could have been some kind of attack against that
[12:29:23] <MattJ> Going to look through logs, and try turning it back on when I can
[12:29:43] <[rg24]michael> ok ok ok, no need for long explanations, MattJ ;)
[12:30:10] <[rg24]michael> other question - i wonder about so many empty rooms, that arent deleted.
[12:30:37] <MattJ> That's up to our server software, we've asked for the feature and I think they're working on it
[12:31:04] <[rg24]michael> i imagine it would be good if some script could track when an empty-room owner turned up last, ot something?
[12:31:24] <MattJ> Yes
[12:31:29] <[rg24]michael> i havesome corpses, too, because delting didnt work out
[12:31:45] <MattJ> The server should have this info, so it shouldn't be a problem to just delete rooms inactive for 30 days or so
[12:31:55] <[rg24]michael> also loading the list takes ages here, with all the unsued rooms, but im sure you know
[12:32:11] <[rg24]michael> hows "inactive" defined?
[12:33:29] <MattJ> It isn't yet, but probably no-one joins it for a period of time
[12:33:53] <[rg24]michael> but if someone joins jsut for a look, that would trigger prolonged existence
[12:34:13] <MattJ> Possibly
[12:34:34] <MattJ> The idea of recording when an owner was in the room is good, but it might not catch some cases
[12:34:47] <MattJ> In my room I'm generally never signed in with my owner account
[12:35:01] <[rg24]michael> yes, looks like some rather elaborate method is needed
[12:35:08] <[rg24]michael> i see
[12:35:14] <MattJ> But I'm probably in the minority, your idea would probably be fine for most rooms
[12:35:23] <MattJ> But yes, it's not trivial to get right
[12:35:46] <[rg24]michael> well, two or three months no owner, maybe, and recheck against user count in addition, or something like that
[12:35:52] <MattJ> Yeah
[12:35:53] <[rg24]michael> would kill lots of i guess
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[12:55:01] <[rg24]michael> It just took ten or more minutes to process the room list. How comes its so cpu intensive...?
[12:55:31] <MattJ> I don't know, most clients handle it quite poorly
[12:56:21] <[rg24]michael> in this case, indeed
[12:57:23] <MattJ> Few clients handle large contact lists, also
[12:57:49] <[rg24]michael> whats "large", 30+?
[12:57:57] <MattJ> More like 300+
[12:58:11] <[rg24]michael> how many humans can handle 100+?...
[12:58:24] <MattJ> I have 400-500 :)
[12:58:29] <[rg24]michael> oh no
[12:58:40] <MattJ> and that's nothing
[12:58:45] <[rg24]michael> uh uh
[12:58:50] <[rg24]michael> my ass
[12:59:02] <[rg24]michael> how can one handle that?
[12:59:24] <MattJ> https://stpeter.im/journal/1053.html
[13:01:40] <[rg24]michael> my my. but this is an indicator theres potential in this network, it seems.
[13:01:43] <[rg24]michael> "stpeter roster test"
[13:02:46] <[rg24]michael> this man must be stuck to his equipment
[13:02:48] <MattJ> Clients are improving - I use Gajim, and I and a couple of other people with large rosters helped them analyze the slow parts a while back, it's much better now
[13:03:03] <MattJ> Similar for large MUC rooms, etc.
[13:03:29] <MattJ> I develop both XMPP client and server code, and I know I'm always more relaxed about performance when working on client code
[13:03:54] <MattJ> I probably shouldn't be, but the server has to deal with *everyone's* data, so I always go mad on optimizing that
[13:04:06] <[rg24]michael> "Firefox with 10+ tabs" i can beat that at least :)
[13:04:11] <MattJ> Heh, same here
[13:04:22] <MattJ> This was 2007, I doubt his roster has shrunk
[13:04:38] <[rg24]michael> i recently eased my pain with opera, by turning off those annyoing icons in the tabs
[13:05:06] <[rg24]michael> i am really relieved gajim got an update
[13:05:31] <[rg24]michael> but still theres things missing on windows like encryption, audio and video
[13:07:05] <[rg24]michael> i got lets see...30 opera windows with 10-20 tabs each...
[13:07:15] <[rg24]michael> i know im sick
[13:07:26] <Link Mauve> oO
[13:07:40] <Link Mauve> How can you manage those two levels of indirection?
[13:08:17] <[rg24]michael> two levels?
[13:08:27] <Link Mauve> One for windows, and one other for tabs.
[13:08:42] <Link Mauve> I have only one Firefox window, with less than 800 tabs.
[13:08:45] <[rg24]michael> ah. well. its easy - i have lots ofunread pages :)
[13:08:54] <Link Mauve> Yeah, me too. :(
[13:09:01] <[rg24]michael> so its not managing, but rather its storing, for my rebirth :)
[13:09:06] <Link Mauve> And when I read one, it spawns ten more tabs. :(
[13:09:17] <[rg24]michael> right, its apest hahaha. oh my.
[13:09:22] <[rg24]michael> *cries
[13:09:29] <MattJ> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/662563/chrome_tabs.png
[13:09:32] <[rg24]michael> i cant miss lla those neat infos...
[13:10:22] <[rg24]michael> i misestimated, 30 windows 20-40 tabs each
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[13:10:34] <Link Mauve> MattJ, at least yours stay in the width of one window. :p
[13:12:07] <[rg24]michael> my last guess on the "elite" was that they have realized people get immersed in the neverending infoverse of the net, so they have no need of censoring it
[13:14:50] <[rg24]michael> well Matt, if you are in the center of attention, that explains lots of contacts at least
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[13:21:52] <[rg24]michael> are bots general scripts, exchangeable between different xmpp clients?
[13:22:24] <MattJ> Generally they're independent of clients
[13:22:43] <MattJ> There aren't many scriptable XMPP clients, bots are usually standalone processes
[13:22:57] <[rg24]michael> MattJ, nice, good. is bot there a resource page, maybe?
[13:23:07] <[rg24]michael> hm
[13:23:56] <MattJ> Depends, I'm not really up to date on what the good ones out there are
[13:24:02] <[rg24]michael> ok
[13:24:04] <MattJ> I run my own that I wrote from scratch
[13:24:23] <Link Mauve> For which use do you need a bot?
[13:24:45] <[rg24]michael> i jsut wanted to look what kind of are tehre for channel administration/moderation
[13:25:15] <[rg24]michael> spam detection, for example
[13:25:18] <[rg24]michael> and insults
[13:25:42] <Link Mauve> It’d be usually better to use the server for that, I think.
[13:26:04] <[rg24]michael> good point, if one has a server :)
[13:26:05] <Link Mauve> It can prevents those abusive uses before relaying it to the other participants.
[13:26:10] <Link Mauve> Oh, right. ^^
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[14:24:43] <vanburen64137> Hello, I would like to create a Jabber account but https://register.jabber.org page does not work, can you help me please.
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[15:09:39] <[rg24]michael> room user count on jabber.org server turned off - for maintenace?
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[17:00:27] <5had0ff> omg. is there any russian language rooms?))
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[17:45:17] <[rg24]michael> text?
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[17:51:43] <louiz’> text?
[17:53:27] <[rg24]michael> yes. no text for hours. now there's some.
[17:54:56] <[rg24]michael> anyone got channel suggestions?
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[18:28:43] <[rg24]michael> if one opens an account in the client, there is a server list. is this the full xmpp-server list, or a selection?
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[18:36:43] <Link Mauve> There is no way to know all the servers, so it has to be a selection.
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[19:35:55] <[rg24]michael> Link Mauve, so how would you look for interesting servers or channels?
[19:37:55] <ThurahT> that is actually a bit ironic. The protocol itself is decentralized and open but such a function would have to be centralized somewhere.
[19:38:45] <[rg24]michael> well, anyone who is inclined could publish a server or channel list on a forum or his page
[19:38:53] <ThurahT> sure
[19:39:00] <[rg24]michael> did you see such, yet?
[19:39:06] <ThurahT> but the server and MUC gathering..
[19:39:12] <Link Mauve> There is http://search.wensley.org.uk/ for example.
[19:39:23] <ThurahT> that was the one I knew..
[19:42:00] <ThurahT> haha, really? the "stpeter roster test", that is fun.
[19:42:12] <ThurahT> /me is going through scroll back
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[20:19:35] <[rg24]michael> well THATS disappointing... entering 'porn' into that search machine doesnt even return ONE tiny user, only a few empty channels. of course, tehs not mcuh to talk about porn, but really. maybe i should try anal or gay...
[20:19:55] <[rg24]michael> theres not even one Hitelr channel, too.
[20:20:37] <ThurahT> ...
[20:21:30] <ThurahT> oh, you were being ironic
[20:21:45] <[rg24]michael> i did a search on emule net, anal webcam swallow sex fuck give most results
[20:21:57] <[rg24]michael> i guess xmpp wont give hardly any
[20:22:10] <[rg24]michael> no, iwas not ironic avbout hitler
[20:22:21] <[rg24]michael> enter hitler anywhere and you get tons of hits
[20:22:51] <[rg24]michael> not even one on xmpp. Oh, i see, that means i have to open one.
[20:22:57] <[rg24]michael> lol
[20:25:48] <[rg24]michael> i guess that would draw a few history experts, now and then...
[20:26:46] <ThurahT> I guess this explains you having 30 opera windows with 10-20 tabs each then..
[20:26:56] <[rg24]michael> 'anal' no channels.
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[20:27:27] <[rg24]michael> you mean, 30+20 hitler pages? or porn?
[20:27:37] <ThurahT> I don
[20:27:41] <[rg24]michael> anyway, your guess misssed. ;)
[20:27:43] <ThurahT> t even want to know
[20:27:49] <[rg24]michael> in both cases
[20:29:11] <[rg24]michael> 'bondage': 0
[20:30:07] <Link Mauve> Do you really think there would be rooms dedicated to such subjects?
[20:30:32] <Link Mauve> Discussions sometimes just happen to derivate to that.
[20:30:39] <[rg24]michael> i dont know. Do you think all those emüty rooms with random names are dedicated to anything?
[20:30:56] <[rg24]michael> obama, 0, putin, 0
[20:30:57] <Link Mauve> I am not on empty rooms.
[20:31:06] <[rg24]michael> of course not
[20:31:28] <Link Mauve> I’m on rooms where I’m interested in the subject.
[20:32:08] <[rg24]michael> cheamtrail, 0, death, 1
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[20:33:02] <[rg24]michael> well, talking honest, i think people are forced to enter rooms where users are present.
[20:33:30] <Link Mauve> No one is forced. :p
[20:33:39] <[rg24]michael> how many people are here because they are interested in somethign xmpp, or developing?
[20:33:49] <Link Mauve> But if you want to speak with people, go where people are.
[20:34:02] <Link Mauve> I think the majority.
[20:34:05] <[rg24]michael> the gajim server has 4 channels with users: 1,1,3,24(gajim channel)
[20:34:53] <[rg24]michael> well, broadly anyone who uses xmpp is interested, one could say
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[20:35:50] <[rg24]michael> i guess you know the direction, but another example, i am playing some game with small player base, cause its old. we all are forced onto servers where players are, not the servers we like.
[20:36:17] <[rg24]michael> so if one of them argues "if you donmt liek the server you can go elswhere" hes wrong.
[20:37:33] <[rg24]michael> if one opens a channel on jabber.org called Adolf Hitler, will someone come and say "nay, thats evil and forbidden"?
[20:37:39] <[rg24]michael> we live in stragne times
[20:38:02] <[rg24]michael> are there rules for channel names?
[20:38:19] <[rg24]michael> im not afraid of channels, some may be
[20:40:06] <Link Mauve> I don’t know, but I think you can create it if you think someone could be interested.
[20:40:57] <[rg24]michael> i guess i would attract 3 people per week :)
[20:41:33] <Link Mauve> Then do it.
[20:42:27] <[rg24]michael> does someone know why user count isnt shown on jabber.org? taking too long?
[20:42:39] <[rg24]michael> one cant pick channels from user count that way
[20:44:50] <[rg24]michael> is 'google talk' compatible with xmpp clients?
[20:46:12] <[rg24]michael> http://www.google.de/talk/intl/de/otherclients.html
[20:49:09] <[rg24]michael> i see, they don't reveal their server adress, unless one has gmail account
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[21:10:03] <johnson56708> is there a spec for channels and subscription of message that are transient?
[21:10:40] <johnson56708> in pubsub, you can add an item to a node and send events to subscribers but I don't need to save the item
[21:10:47] <johnson56708> just send the event
[21:26:17] <johnson56708> found pubsub#persist_items
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[23:35:55] <cheney20428> I cant
[23:36:11] <cheney20428> I cant creaste an acount
[23:36:17] <cheney20428> Create
[23:37:30] * grant3740 left the chat.
[23:39:39] * cheney20428 left the chat.
[23:40:03] * Z_God left the chat.
[23:41:55] * hoover17560 joined the chat.
[23:42:16] <hoover17560> I cant create an acount
[23:45:50] * hoover17560 left the chat.