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[14:50:07] <MattJ> Kev, any chance you could update the git repo with my second key here? https://launchpad.net/~mwild1/+sshkeys (replace is fine, I don't use the old one for much anymore)
[14:52:55] <Kev> I grabbed your second key out of your authorized_users. I assume it's the same one :)
[14:59:58] <MattJ> Sure :)
[15:00:31] <MattJ> Works, thanks
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[15:01:43] <Kev> MAM?
[15:04:49] <MattJ> It maaay be related
[15:05:13] <MattJ> /me sighs at git not being hg
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[15:12:41] <ralphm> MattJ: agreed
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[15:21:34] <Kev> I think it's more annoying going the other way.
[15:22:12] <Kev> When I'm forced to use hg I keep trying to do something I do often in Git, failing to work out how, and either asking someone or Googling to find out that it can't be done in hg.
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[15:44:05] <MattJ> Kev, you would think that
[15:45:04] <Kev> Well, when Tobias asks how to do something in Git for Swift, I can usually tell him a way of doing it. When I ask him how to do stuff in HG for xmppench, it doesn't go as well.
[15:45:15] <Kev> Therefore HG is more annoying than Git.
[15:45:22] <MattJ> Ask me instead
[15:45:30] <Kev> You're hiding.
[15:45:32] <MattJ> No offence to Tobias :P
[15:45:44] <MattJ> Valid point
[15:45:59] <Tobias> MattJ, none taken :D
[15:47:57] <Tobias> maybe i just suck at general version control support ^^
[15:49:06] <MattJ> How much do you use it?
[15:49:38] <Tobias> git?
[15:49:41] <Tobias> or hg?
[15:49:47] <MattJ> Either
[15:50:22] <Tobias> git mostly via GUI, until the GUI screws something up and i have to ask kev ^^
[15:50:31] <MattJ> I have hundreds of projects in hg, and I use it practically every day in Prosody
[15:50:33] <Tobias> hg i used from console
[15:50:44] <MattJ> I have about 10 projects in git
[15:50:54] <Tobias> but haven't much time to code on hg related projects recently
[15:51:37] <MattJ> If my git encounters actually made any sense to me, I'd probably use it more - but I rarely, if ever, need to read docs or ask for help with hg - it just makes sense to me
[15:51:52] <Kev> MattJ: Git makes sense to me ;)
[15:51:57] <Kev> No, I can't say that with a straight face.
[15:52:12] <Kev> Git confuses me less than it used to.
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[17:18:25] <Tobias> does no xmlns imply an element inherits its parent's xmlns?
[17:18:40] <Kev> That's different to the question you asked me!
[17:19:06] <Kev> Yes, <a xmlns="blah"><b/></a> b is xmlns="blah" in this case.
[17:19:16] <Tobias> empty xmlns != no xmlns?
[17:19:51] <Kev> I don't know without checking, but <b xmlns=""/> /looks/ like it should be differente to <b/>.
[17:20:28] <Tobias> Kev, so does swiften create xmlns="" if you pass it empty strings as xmlns? :)
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[17:20:51] <Kev> What an excellent question.
[17:21:38] <Link Mauve> You are right, xmlns="" doesn’t inherit and is even invalid IIRC.
[17:21:50] <Tobias> "The empty string, though it is a legal URI reference, cannot be used as a namespace name."
[17:21:58] <Link Mauve> Yeah, that.
[17:21:59] <Tobias> from http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml-names/#concepts 2.2
[17:22:27] <Tobias> that hopefully answas all my questions...considering Swiften's devs knew that
[17:22:41] <Tobias> s/considering/if
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[18:59:33] <Florob> "The attribute value in a default namespace declaration MAY be empty. This has the same effect, within the scope of the declaration, of there being no default namespace."
[18:59:58] <Florob> (Still no good reason to produce it though)
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[22:27:52] <Tobias> psa, do you know if DANE most-likely be moved into resolver libraries (APIs have to be changed anyway to support DNSSEC alone, right?) or will each application need do the DANE logic itself?
[22:28:02] <Tobias> s/know/have an idea ;)
[22:28:48] <Zash> Hm
[22:28:48] <Zash> (woah, lag)
[22:29:23] <psa> Tobias: good question
[22:29:45] <Zash> I think DANE support would live in the TLS lib?
[22:30:25] <Tobias> Zash, right..that'd make sense
[22:31:07] <Tobias> i mean having it ready to use as an API in a library would definitly fasten adoption
[22:31:48] <Tobias> Zash, Chrome(ium) already has some DANE support i think..i wonder if they patched openssl or did it out of openssl
[22:32:11] <Tobias> they don't seem to use unbound though
[22:32:14] <Zash> The TLS lib would either need to depend on some DNS(SEC) lib itself, or rely on you to feed it the data...
[22:33:04] <psa> Tobias: I think it will not be the case that every application needs to develop support for DANE -- basically you'd get the key from your DNS library and then pass that key to the TLS library as the expected credential -- or so it seems to me
[22:33:06] <Tobias> Zash, i bet they go with the "feed in the data"-way, if at all
[22:33:52] <Zash> All this should be handled by The Networking Library, along with SRV resolution and weighting etc.
[22:34:20] <Zash> Sadly, I've not heard of any such lib :/
[22:34:53] <Tobias> psa, hmm.. yeah..that makes sense
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