Logs for jdev

Show join/part/nick changes:

[00:05:22] * deryni joined the chat.
[00:59:48] * MattJ left the chat.
[01:02:06] * Lance left the chat.
[01:05:46] * Tobias_ joined the chat.
[01:10:05] * Tobias left the chat.
[01:13:18] * scippio left the chat.
[01:15:01] * darkrain_ left the chat.
[01:16:31] * victor left the chat.
[01:16:31] * victor joined the chat.
[01:18:57] * victor left the chat.
[01:18:58] * victor joined the chat.
[01:46:10] * jcea left the chat.
[02:16:28] * victor left the chat.
[02:16:30] * victor joined the chat.
[02:16:36] * victor left the chat.
[02:16:38] * victor joined the chat.
[02:25:40] * evilotto left the chat.
[02:38:54] * kaki joined the chat.
[02:39:22] * kaki left the chat.
[02:49:47] * psa left the chat.
[02:50:09] * victor left the chat.
[02:50:09] * victor joined the chat.
[03:40:09] * victor left the chat.
[03:40:10] * victor joined the chat.
[05:02:34] * jtal joined the chat.
[05:03:16] <jtal> can two clients broadcast presence to the same muc?
[05:03:33] <jtal> I dont see it covered in the docs I'm reading
[05:06:35] <deryni> See http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#enter-conflict the paragraph after the example "However, if ...".
[05:10:57] <jtal> so in my case its same bare JID but different nicks
[05:11:13] <jtal> I guess this is saying its just up to the implementation maybe
[05:11:33] <deryni> Same jid different room nicks? That's perfectly fine.
[05:12:34] <deryni> That's not something the spec talks about explicitely because that isn't any different from the normal muc join case (the muc doesn't even need to know that the bare jid is already in the room if it doesn't go looking).
[05:13:35] <jtal> ok maybe the client or server I am using is broken; what I see is, when the 2nd instance broadcasts joining MUC, the first client (adium) no longer sees its nick in the MUC, only the 2nd instance
[05:14:53] <deryni> If both clients can still talk normally that sounds like a client bug (and vaguely like one I remember hearing about a while ago).
[05:15:06] <jtal> yeah both talk and recieve
[05:15:09] <deryni> Does it happen in rooms that are semi-anonymous or only non-anonymous rooms?
[05:15:25] <deryni> I'd bet it only happens in non-anonymous rooms.
[05:15:29] <jtal> sorry what is anonymous room?
[05:16:12] <deryni> non-anonymous rooms send real jids with presence updates/etc. so you know the person behind the nick. semi-anonymous rooms only send real jids to owners/admins/etc.
[05:16:12] <jtal> oh where you see JIDs
[05:16:16] <deryni> Yeah.
[05:25:05] <jtal> thanks
[05:25:12] * jtal left the chat.
[05:36:34] * Treebilou joined the chat.
[06:07:31] * Asterix joined the chat.
[06:30:25] * Asterix left the chat.
[06:51:53] * victor left the chat.
[06:51:57] * victor joined the chat.
[06:52:02] * victor left the chat.
[06:52:04] * victor joined the chat.
[07:25:43] * Treebilou left the chat.
[07:36:57] * Alex joined the chat.
[07:48:53] * guus joined the chat.
[08:17:54] <xnyhps> Yes, that's definitely an Adium bug.
[09:06:02] * Tobias_ left the chat.
[09:06:43] * victor left the chat.
[09:06:45] * victor joined the chat.
[09:12:59] * Tobias joined the chat.
[09:13:23] * Tobias left the chat.
[09:18:25] * harrykar left the chat.
[09:21:18] * luca tagliaferri joined the chat.
[09:28:48] * harrykar joined the chat.
[09:33:46] * Treebilou joined the chat.
[09:40:42] * Tobias joined the chat.
[10:08:06] * Alex_MatriXClient joined the chat.
[10:08:59] * Alex_MatriXClient left the chat.
[10:10:51] * victor left the chat.
[10:10:52] * victor joined the chat.
[10:11:16] * victor left the chat.
[10:11:17] * victor joined the chat.
[10:11:17] * victor left the chat.
[10:11:18] * victor joined the chat.
[10:13:14] * Tobias left the chat.
[10:13:50] * Tobias joined the chat.
[10:41:09] * victor left the chat.
[10:41:12] * victor joined the chat.
[10:41:20] * victor left the chat.
[10:41:20] * victor joined the chat.
[10:51:02] * Alex left the chat.
[10:51:02] * Alex joined the chat.
[11:43:25] * Hermitifier left the chat.
[11:49:02] * Hermitifier joined the chat.
[12:10:09] * Tobias left the chat.
[12:23:18] * Tobias joined the chat.
[12:31:24] * Hermitifier left the chat.
[12:34:21] * Hermitifier joined the chat.
[12:40:11] * Hermitifier left the chat.
[12:40:22] * Hermitifier joined the chat.
[13:04:32] * victor left the chat.
[13:04:41] * victor joined the chat.
[13:23:43] * scippio joined the chat.
[13:24:02] * MattJ joined the chat.
[13:28:53] * Zash joined the chat.
[13:35:17] * victor left the chat.
[13:35:18] * victor joined the chat.
[13:35:19] * victor left the chat.
[13:35:20] * victor joined the chat.
[13:39:48] * naw joined the chat.
[13:55:55] * victor left the chat.
[13:55:58] * victor joined the chat.
[14:06:02] * xnyhps left the chat.
[14:14:05] * xnyhps joined the chat.
[14:14:06] * Neustradamus left the chat.
[14:18:14] * victor left the chat.
[14:18:14] * victor joined the chat.
[14:18:15] * victor left the chat.
[14:18:16] * victor joined the chat.
[14:34:30] * victor left the chat.
[14:34:33] * victor joined the chat.
[14:38:03] * deryni left the chat.
[14:38:43] * naw left the chat.
[14:42:54] * victor left the chat.
[14:42:54] * victor joined the chat.
[14:42:54] * victor left the chat.
[14:42:56] * victor joined the chat.
[14:58:48] * victor left the chat.
[14:59:10] * Neustradamus joined the chat.
[14:59:11] * victor joined the chat.
[15:02:40] * Neustradamus left the chat.
[15:04:16] * Neustradamus joined the chat.
[15:07:34] * Tobias left the chat.
[15:16:42] * Alex left the chat.
[15:27:10] * christian joined the chat.
[15:28:04] * christian left the chat.
[15:29:09] * deryni joined the chat.
[15:32:25] * lastsky joined the chat.
[15:33:25] * lastsky left the chat.
[15:45:03] * darkrain_ joined the chat.
[15:47:03] * Kev_ left the chat.
[15:47:23] * Kev joined the chat.
[15:51:12] * victor left the chat.
[15:52:32] * dimickh@jabber.org joined the chat.
[15:52:41] * dimickh@jabber.org left the chat.
[15:52:47] * victor joined the chat.
[15:59:16] * harrykar left the chat.
[16:05:40] * guus left the chat.
[16:10:22] * psa joined the chat.
[16:10:52] <psa> good morning, jabberites! :)
[16:11:16] * stpeter joined the chat.
[16:11:17] <Minos> _o/
[16:11:47] <Zash> o/
[16:12:56] * Alex joined the chat.
[16:14:53] <psa> /me preps for his antepenultimate formal telechat
[16:19:18] * Alex left the chat.
[16:19:28] * Alex joined the chat.
[16:21:34] * victor left the chat.
[16:21:34] * victor joined the chat.
[16:21:37] * victor left the chat.
[16:21:39] * victor joined the chat.
[16:28:57] * psa left the chat.
[16:29:04] * psa joined the chat.
[16:52:49] <dwd> psa, You could always spice things up by seeing if you could get recalled before you step down.
[16:58:34] <dwd> If I make a room moderated, then newly joining unaffiliated users get a role of Visitor. If an unaffiliated user is already in the room when the room is made moderated, should that user's role change?
[17:00:31] <dwd> (That is, do we expect any actions in the room configuration that affect newly-joining unaffiliated users to act on the unaffiliated users in the room already)
[17:01:39] <dwd> I'd note that XEP-0045 as published doesn't appear to mention this case, but has a mention about admin status as Example 167 - trouble is, I don't see when Example 167 would happen, whereas losing voice - or being kicked from the room if it went members-only - would seem much more interesting.
[17:05:49] * evilotto joined the chat.
[17:11:05] * harrykar joined the chat.
[17:19:55] <psa> dwd: I think the user's role should change in accordance with the new room configuration
[17:26:31] <dwd> psa, Right, that's implied loosely by ex167 - could we codify that one in the spec? Want a patch?
[17:26:34] * Tobias joined the chat.
[17:28:32] <psa> dwd: I don't particularly want to be updating the spec again so soon :)
[17:28:37] <psa> but sure, patches welcome
[17:29:02] <Zash> Do you consider an unmoderated room as where everyone has voice by default or where voice doesn't matter?
[17:29:19] <dwd> Everyone has voice by default, in our implementation.
[17:29:37] <dwd> That is, I could remove your voice in an "un"moderated room.
[17:29:50] <dwd> Ta-da.
[17:29:59] <Zash> I think prosody does that too
[17:30:35] <dwd> It does mean that in a busy room that gets flipped into moderated mode, there'll be a lot of noise.
[17:30:54] <dwd> But I guess clients need to learn to present that better.
[17:31:57] <Zash> As in, the 'is moderated' flag decides the default role for someone who joins
[17:32:13] <Kev> dwd: The two aren't mutually exclusive.
[17:32:39] <Kev> One can have "You can have voice removed in an unmoderated room" and "You get kicked to visitor if you would be a visitor on rejoin because of a config change".
[17:34:12] * victor left the chat.
[17:34:16] * victor joined the chat.
[17:57:09] * codora joined the chat.
[18:00:43] * victor left the chat.
[18:00:43] * victor joined the chat.
[18:03:25] * luca tagliaferri left the chat.
[18:32:05] * Asterix joined the chat.
[18:35:11] * victor left the chat.
[18:35:16] * victor joined the chat.
[18:39:55] * victor left the chat.
[18:39:55] * victor joined the chat.
[18:39:55] * victor left the chat.
[18:39:55] * victor joined the chat.
[18:42:43] * codora left the chat.
[18:44:21] * codora joined the chat.
[18:52:18] * evilotto left the chat.
[18:56:48] <Tobias> what would be the preferred way to store information on your contacts in your roster? via PEP? i.e. if files from that contact should be auto accepted or something like that?
[18:56:49] * codora left the chat.
[18:57:01] * victor left the chat.
[18:57:19] * victor joined the chat.
[18:57:21] <Kev> In the roster itself, I'd have thought. I wonder how many servers would allow that. It's legal.
[18:58:55] * victor left the chat.
[18:58:55] * victor joined the chat.
[18:58:57] * victor left the chat.
[18:58:58] * victor joined the chat.
[18:59:29] * victor left the chat.
[18:59:31] * victor joined the chat.
[19:00:00] <psa> Kev: 1% perchance?
[19:00:19] <psa> Tobias: IMHO XEP-0292, see the section on contact storage
[19:00:39] <psa> /me goes back to the IESG telechat
[19:00:42] <Kev> Maybe we should file bug reports with the servers, then :)
[19:01:01] <Kev> (I've no idea whether M-Link would allow it or not)
[19:01:52] <Zash> Also, xep 49 or 223
[19:02:08] <Tobias> do we have some xepbot here again?
[19:02:26] <Kev> I'd have thought 223 was the next best thing to iq:private, with 49 as a poor man's fallback.
[19:03:28] <Tobias> brb...my buns are calling
[19:04:53] * evilotto joined the chat.
[19:08:38] <Tobias> Kev, putting custom stuff in the roster items would be different from using iq:private, right?
[19:09:00] <Kev> Sorry
[19:09:05] <Kev> s/iq:private/iq:roster/
[19:10:17] * naw joined the chat.
[19:34:21] * luca tagliaferri joined the chat.
[19:42:31] * Minos left the chat.
[19:54:18] * Treebilou left the chat.
[20:22:36] * Florob joined the chat.
[20:25:15] * xepbot joined the chat.
[20:49:21] * Fritzy joined the chat.
[20:49:31] <Fritzy> HAI GAIS
[20:49:38] <Zash> OHAI
[20:49:50] <Fritzy> Zash! I know that guy!
[20:50:11] <Zash> Fritzy!
[20:50:15] <Fritzy> !!!
[20:50:40] <Fritzy> I was just checking in to see if jabber.org and others weren't federating with Gtalk land like netflint.net
[20:50:59] <Kev> It's been sporadic.
[20:51:12] <Fritzy> kind of an off day for them today, eh?
[20:51:29] <Kev> Although seems to be up at the moment.
[20:51:35] <Kev> Oh, this has been going on for days.
[20:51:36] <Fritzy> ah, not for my server
[20:51:54] <Fritzy> my roster is looking very... culled
[21:11:09] * Asterix left the chat.
[21:22:58] * deryni left the chat.
[21:50:25] * Zash left the chat.
[22:21:40] * Florob left the chat.
[22:55:32] * Alex left the chat.
[22:55:37] * stpeter left the chat.
[22:57:30] * Alex joined the chat.
[23:12:51] * naw left the chat.
[23:14:40] * deryni joined the chat.
[23:21:59] * Fritzy left the chat.
[23:27:27] * victor left the chat.
[23:27:30] * victor joined the chat.
[23:27:45] * victor left the chat.
[23:27:47] * victor joined the chat.
[23:28:02] * psa left the chat.
[23:37:28] * Minos joined the chat.