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[16:20:06] <waqas> Does anyone have thoughts on this: http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/jdev/2012-October/089202.html ?
[16:22:27] <Kev> Yes. It's a bit ugly, but you shouldn't go invisible while you're in MUCs.
[16:23:01] <Kev> (In fact, you pretty much shouldn't use privacy lists at all :))
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[16:30:57] <waqas> Kev: I can agree with not using privacy lists :)
[16:32:05] <psa> /me points to http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0191.html
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[16:57:22] <Lance> it looks like things should work fine using xep-0186
[16:59:37] <Lance> the only issue I'm seeing is going invisible after joining a muc means you'd have to explicitly leave the muc before disconnecting
[17:00:05] <psa> well, following 186 would still result in sending unavailable when you go invisible, no?
[17:00:38] <Lance> crap, I was just looking in the server handling section
[17:00:56] <waqas> Is there an advantage to clearing directed presence when you go unavailable (but are not disconnected)?
[17:00:58] <psa> yeah
[17:01:29] <psa> I echo what Kev said -- trying to be invisible in a public space like a MUC room is inherently contradictory :)
[17:03:33] <Kev> waqas: So what happens when you then go offline? Does the server then send unavailable only to those people you've sent directed presence to?
[17:04:51] <Kev> There are certainly ways in which we could engineer the protocol to be more complicated, but right now "When you go invisible you'll stop appearing online to /everyone/" seems pretty sensible to me. You can resend directed to people you want to afterwards, and rejoin any MUCS you want to.
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[17:06:30] <psa> /me nods to Kev
[17:06:32] <Lance> Kev: +1, if a client goes invisible, then it should already know what mucs it has joined
[17:06:50] <Lance> it's not hard to rejoin
[17:07:35] <waqas> Kev: Isn't it more complex to special-case the unavailable broadcast to directed presence sessions when directed presence is in no other way connected to normal XMPP presence?
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[17:08:17] <waqas> Because that's what this is at the moment: a special-casing
[17:08:30] <Kev> There has to be a special casing somewhere, though.
[17:08:38] <Kev> Either on unavailable or on logout.
[17:09:04] <Kev> Somewhere there has to be code that says "If the user looks online to anyone, stop it".
[17:09:14] <waqas> On resource disconnect makes more sense to me from a clean-design perspective
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[17:12:23] <psa> waqas: where were you in 1999? ;-)
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[17:19:31] <waqas> Probably in high school, without a JID :P
[17:19:42] <Kev> Kids these days.
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[17:21:49] <Lance> well, I still need to flesh the wiki page out a bit later today, but I've thrown my hat in for council now
[17:22:21] <Kev> Cool.
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