Logs for jabber
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[02:19:01] <lemur> so when you send messages and notifications to a jabber user who is offline, the server just queues them and sends them all
when the person signs on?
[02:19:42] <lemur> in which case what happens when the queue gets so large that something goes wrong? is there a limit and how would a server
handle that?
[02:23:02] <stpeter> hi lemur
[02:23:14] <lemur> sup sp
[02:23:31] <stpeter> many servers will limit the number or overall bytes of messages that can be queued up for you while you are offline
[02:23:50] <stpeter> we've had problems with that in the past (people sign up for some notification service and then never log in again)
[02:24:16] <louiz’> prosody doesn’t and will actually hang when that person (with many messages in his queue) logs in.
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[02:32:18] <lemur> stpeter: interesting
[02:33:36] <lemur> I wonder if xmpp has a suggested behavior, or if it's up to the server writer. I could see a rolling queue of offline messages
where newer messages would trigger the deletion of older messages
[02:33:59] <lemur> assuming that more recent messages are inherently more valuable than very old one
[02:34:00] <lemur> s
[02:35:05] <stpeter> lemur: there is nothing about this in the XMPP specifications
[02:35:09] <lemur> but anyhow given the memory and storage capabilities of computer hardware today, one could queue up a ridiculous number of
offline messages for a very long time, and the server could be written to deliver them without hanging
[02:35:47] <stpeter> but we could add something about it to http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0160.html
[02:36:29] <stpeter> lemur: in part the problem is that a really large message queue could cause congestion issues, especially on mobile links
[02:36:50] <lemur> yeah
[02:37:14] <lemur> one could write a server that simply bounced offline messages
[02:37:24] <lemur> but who doesn't love offline messages
[02:38:19] <lemur> or you can have offline messages placed into some kind of online archive that the client could access at will, rather than
dumping them all off on sign in
[02:38:33] <lemur> (kind of like a mailbox)
[02:38:52] <lemur> which I'm sure is more trouble than it's worth
[02:43:53] <stpeter> lemur: we defined a spec for that once :)
[02:43:58] <stpeter> but no one implemented it
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[02:51:58] <lemur> nice
[02:52:36] <stpeter> :)
[02:52:49] <stpeter> http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0013.html
[02:53:05] <stpeter> speaking of which, we need to convert that to Deprecated or Obsolete...
[02:58:53] <lemur> Noo
[02:58:57] <lemur> I demand that this be implemented
[02:59:03] <stpeter> heehee
[02:59:33] <lemur> You know what you should do
[02:59:58] <lemur> Close off jabber.org registration to everyone except people who send in an application by mail
[03:00:03] <lemur> with an essay
[03:00:12] <lemur> :D
[03:00:27] <stpeter> postal mail?
[03:00:57] <stpeter> yeah, that'll discourage new account creation ;-)
[03:01:18] <lemur> exactly ;)
[03:01:50] <lemur> btw I'm still waiting for the server software to be updated and for the conference server to be totally cleaned out
[03:01:58] <stpeter> yeah, me too :)
[03:02:04] <lemur> -_-
[03:02:13] <stpeter> I'm mainly to blame
[03:03:15] <stpeter> back up to 12+ hours days of work lately, doesn't leave much time or energy for jabber.org upgrades
[03:04:17] <lemur> yeah
[03:04:23] <lemur> it is understandable
[03:04:44] <lemur> does the server have a setting which can just destroy or unlist conferences that stay empty?
[03:05:09] <stpeter> it will after we upgrade
[03:05:12] <lemur> <3
[03:05:18] <lemur> /me very excite
[03:05:37] <lemur> I also think clients should list conferences by number of participants, but I haven't seen one yet that does
[03:05:43] <stpeter> yeah, way too many empty conference rooms around here
[03:05:48] <stpeter> indeed
[03:06:12] <lemur> or the client can hide empty conferences, like how counterstrike filters empty servers
[03:06:32] <lemur> but retrieving a very long conference list hoses up my client (Psi)
[03:06:50] <louiz’> gajim can order by number of participants, afaik
[03:07:05] <lemur> and now for some reason I can't get a list from jabber.ru, which someone here told me was because jabber.ru is sending malformed
xmpp
[03:07:13] <lemur> haven't used gajim in a while
[03:07:18] <louiz’> and even poezio can
[03:07:27] <lemur> sigh
[03:07:40] <lemur> OK I'll bug the Psi devs to implement that
[03:08:50] <lemur> also I was thinking, there must be a way to measure conference activity besides just looking at the number of participants
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[03:09:15] <lemur> like if the server counted the number of messages sent in a conference, one could determine a conference with 2 members to
be more active than a conference with 30 idlers
[03:09:15] <louiz’> meh, something happened?
[03:09:48] <lemur> finding active conferences is difficult on jabber -_-
[03:09:52] <lemur> louiz’: like what
[03:10:02] <louiz’> like me being disconnected from here
[03:12:38] <lemur> check the xml log
[03:14:06] <louiz’> They aren’t enabled atm
[03:14:12] <louiz’> and, meh, whatever
[03:14:19] <lemur> :(
[03:14:33] <stpeter> ok guys I'm going to log off for the night
[03:14:57] <sono> peace, love, and lsd
[03:15:07] <stpeter> heh
[03:15:16] <stpeter> I prefer wine, women, and song ;-)
[03:15:27] <sono> yes but can you taste the rainbow with those?
[03:15:38] <sono> just kidding. Night stpeter
[03:15:40] <louiz’> good night
[03:15:43] <lemur> l8
[03:15:46] <stpeter> :)
[03:15:48] <stpeter> ciao
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[03:19:47] <lemur> hey what is this anonymous authentication that gajim speaks of??
[03:21:42] <louiz’> http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0175.html
[03:22:26] <lemur> it just looks like authentication security
[03:22:44] <louiz’> it’s just a way to login without an account, actually
[03:25:36] <lemur> that's weird
[03:26:09] <lemur> wouldn't people just use it for abuse
[03:29:25] <louiz’> sometimes yes
[03:31:08] <lemur> what do you guys think of Spark
[03:31:29] <louiz’> never really heard of it, so nothing
[03:31:42] <lemur> hmm
[03:31:46] <lemur> apparently
[03:31:51] <lemur> a cross platform client written in Java
[03:31:58] <lemur> brought to you by the makers of openfire
[03:33:07] <lemur> I'm checking out xmpp clients again... gajim is quite nice actually
[03:33:16] <lemur> although I feel weird using a desktop app written in python
[03:33:51] <lemur> but jabber desktop clients seems to be a psi vs gajim battle
[03:35:22] <louiz’> for graphical clients yes
[03:35:34] <louiz’> and clients in general too, actually
[03:39:07] <lemur> best console client?
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[03:40:27] <Venya> interesting
[03:40:41] <louiz’> poezio of course :)
[03:41:00] <lemur> never heard of it
[03:41:11] <sono> dude remember when I was breaking my head in getting it set up?
[03:41:12] <lemur> is it like irc?
[03:41:15] <sono> that was the client
[03:41:22] <sono> lemur: think irssi but simpler
[03:41:25] <lemur> I like that
[03:41:27] <lemur> I love irssi
[03:41:42] <lemur> if I had a good console jabber client, I could idle in conferences better
[03:41:46] <lemur> because I could screen it
[03:41:52] <louiz’> yeah, I do that
[03:41:56] <louiz’> (actually I tmux it)
[03:42:03] <lemur> is tmux someting new
[03:42:13] <louiz’> newer than screen yes
[03:42:17] <lemur> omg it is like irssi
[03:42:19] <lemur> it's beautiful
[03:42:23] <louiz’> ah
[03:42:25] <louiz’> aha*
[03:42:30] <lemur> never heard of tmux
[03:42:34] <lemur> I'm so behind
[03:43:20] <louiz’> I understood more easily how tmux works, so I made my choice.
[03:43:34] <lemur> is it simpler?
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[03:43:55] <louiz’> more intuitive for me, at least
[03:44:09] <louiz’> but I’ve never used screen intensively
[03:44:37] <louiz’> I tried, it felt complicated, I tried tmux and I gave it more time
[03:44:56] <lemur> ah ok
[03:45:08] <lemur> screen became second nature to me, but I only use its most basic functions
[03:45:25] <lemur> detach, reattach, add terminal, cycle terminal
[03:49:53] <louiz’> actually, the goal of poezio was to look and behave like weechat
[03:49:57] <louiz’> but it’s close to irssi too
[03:52:19] <lemur> is weechat an irc client
[03:55:31] <lemur> I don't understand how any program could be better than irc
[03:55:34] <lemur> I mean irssi
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[03:55:49] <lemur> in fact maybe irssi+bitlbee is the ideal jabber client
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[03:57:04] <louiz’> you may miss some features specific to XMPP
[03:57:10] <louiz’> and yes, weechat is an irc client
[04:08:16] <lemur> it's those pesky xmpp features that get you
[04:08:28] <lemur> which is why I use Psi and not Pidgin
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[04:11:10] <louiz’> yes
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[04:13:33] <lemur> I see
[04:19:28] <louiz’> time to sleep, ’night
[04:20:06] <lemur> Goodnight
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