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[09:52:26] <dwd> I'm being pestered about benchmarks again... Does anyone have any metrics they care about - and even better, the tools to measure them with?
[10:09:52] <Tobias> i'd be happy to write some fresh tools on this but i'm wondering what metrics precisely are the interesting ones and how they are specified
[10:16:04] <Tobias> would be nice to specify a couple of those...especially ones that are most neutral for comparison of various different implementations
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[10:57:09] <aholler> E.g. messages/presences/iqs per second where the content is defined (from one user to another). I've seen some values where one praised his implementation with a text like N message per second using 1 cpu. pretty senseless as this says nothing about how many cores, how fast the cpu and especally how many chars/elements those messages had ;)
[10:58:21] <Tobias> to another user? another user on the same host? not the same user?
[10:58:50] <aholler> some stuff should also be noted: e.g. how many user are registered during the test. it makes a difference if the server has to search through a set of 2 or 500.000 jids to find a matching one ;)
[10:59:29] <Tobias> registered doesn't matter...i guess you mean logged in currently
[10:59:37] <aholler> no, registered
[10:59:58] <aholler> or both
[11:01:48] <aholler> if a user is online a server isn't interested in the first place.
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[11:12:32] <aholler> a simple test would be to send a million messages from one user to another, measuring the time. but as said some days before, the testing tool should avoid parsing the stuff while receiving. e.g. (1) go online with 2 user (parser must be enabled) (2) disable parser and send and receive messages (just storing the received stuff), (3) users are going offline. The problem then would be that the storage must be fast enough.
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[11:13:55] <Tobias> sotring the stuff sounds like a bottleneck
[11:13:59] <Tobias> *storing
[11:14:24] <aholler> but would be needed to verify what happened.
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[11:14:31] <aholler> otherwise you have to parse
[11:16:03] <aholler> but a million messages could be stored in ram too
[11:16:19] <aholler> shouldn't be a problem with today ram sizes
[11:18:44] <aholler> e.g. the receiving one just could store everything he receives until a idle period (while remembering the time he got the last packet).
[11:19:10] <aholler> and then parses the stuff in ram.
[11:20:32] <aholler> that would give a first view about how fast a server could be.
[11:25:30] <aholler> some things could be enabled by option, e.g. send with or without from. in the 2. case the server has to modify the msg.
[11:28:09] <aholler> creating a roster with 100.000 contacts could be interesting too. ;)
[11:28:51] <aholler> one presence would start a presence storm the server has to generate
[11:30:31] <aholler> but then, writing a tool which can emulate/handle 100.000 clientconnections isn't easy.
[11:31:30] <aholler> e.g. you have to use more than one ip
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[11:36:38] <dwd> aholler, That's relatively easy, though, on most OS's. The difficulty is handling that amount of traffic on a physical network.
[11:37:10] <dwd> aholler, But do people care about message throughput, or message latency?
[11:37:44] <dwd> aholler, That is, if I'm processing X messages per second, in and out, do we care if they're taking half an hour to pass through?
[11:38:07] <aholler> what do you want measure than?
[11:38:28] <dwd> aholler, Nothing, ideally. It's all too much work. :-)
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[11:38:47] <aholler> there isn't much besides counting features/implemented xeps ;)
[11:39:01] <dwd> aholler, More seriously, I'd like to measure the same things that everyone else does, and for those metrics to be useful to people making an implementation choice.
[11:39:07] <aholler> maybe how many users are possible
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[11:39:37] <dwd> aholler, Registered or online? How many people in their rosters? WHat about their PEP usage?
[11:40:34] <aholler> I don't know what people care of. Never read what they miss, just some statements about 'doesn't scale' or such stuff.
[11:41:58] <dwd> aholler, Right - I only know of one company which makes explcit statements on scaling, but without details. I'd be happer with repeatable benchmarking - that is, stuff I could put on our website that could be repeated by [potential] customers.
[11:42:37] <Tobias> i think memory usage per c2s connection is quite interesting, which says some amound of scaling for a scenario where you want to have a lot connected c2s sessions
[11:44:25] <Tobias> and this is per node, single instance..no clustering...since clusting is a very vague term...lots of different solutions with differnt pitfalls and downsides
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[12:16:00] <dwd> Tobias, Although clustering scaling is also interesting.
[12:19:11] <Tobias> dwd, sure..but i guess much harder to compare
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[16:42:28] <aholler> a benchmark about what is needed to setup and keep the needed environment (jvm, ...) healthy could be interesting ;)
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[17:52:48] <pawan.neupane> I tried to connect to Facebook Transport through jabber.hot-chilli.net, but while trying to log in, I always get the Resource Conflict message. And everytime I try to connect to it, my facebook page runs a check and asks me to change my password. What is the solution to this problem?
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[18:36:43] <Tobias> stpeter, do you know of live XML editing tools, that show live preview how the XML would look after XSLT processing?
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[20:11:35] <stpeter> Tobias: probably some XML editing tools have that feature, but I don't use such tools
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[20:12:01] <Tobias> stpeter, you use a bare text-editor with highlighting and that's all?
[20:12:10] <stpeter> I use vim without highlighting
[20:12:20] <Tobias> without highlighting?
[20:12:21] <Tobias> :)
[20:12:24] <stpeter> yes
[20:12:30] <stpeter> highlighting is for wimps :P
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[20:12:31] <Tobias> why that?
[20:12:45] <Tobias> ahh..sure :P
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[20:13:06] <stpeter> I never used highlighting in the early days, and now I can't get used to all those fancy colors ;-)
[20:13:25] <stpeter> remember, I'm ancient :P
[20:14:35] <Tobias> yeah..from the last millennium
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[20:16:01] <stpeter> "you are *so* second-millennium!"
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[20:16:18] <Tobias> heh
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[22:08:23] <Zash> So, is there any large IM network left that hasn't dabbled with XMPP?
[22:08:45] <Tobias> yahoo?
[22:09:25] <xnyhps> ICQ?
[22:10:24] <Tobias> ICQ played once with c2s, AIM now has active s2s running to some domains (mainly google)
[22:10:51] <Zash> Aren't AIM and ICQ both owned by AOL?
[22:11:02] <xnyhps> Not anymore.
[22:11:12] <xnyhps> ICQ was bought by mail.ru or something.
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[22:11:48] <Zash> Doesn't mail.ru have XMPP? Or am I confusing them with vkontakte?
[22:13:28] <xnyhps> Not that I know.
[22:14:24] <stpeter> hey guys there see also http://adium.im/pipermail/devel_adium.im/2011-September/008736.html
[22:14:44] <stpeter> I think mail.ru also supports XMPP but I'm not completely sure
[22:15:35] <stpeter> Zash: I have never seen any support for or interest in XMPP from Yahoo, but then again they might be almost irrelevant at this point
[22:15:44] <stpeter> well, I need to run an errand, bbiab
[22:15:45] <justin> this doesn't really count, but as a company, i believe yahoo used xmpp for some non-IM stuff
[22:15:49] <stpeter> they did
[22:17:48] <xnyhps> stpeter: I was just about to mail the same thing to the standards list when I saw you had already linked my mail. :P
[22:18:15] <stpeter> :)
[22:20:36] <justin> hmm, does icq still interop with aim after being bought again?
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[22:40:54] <Florob> Is prosody@ dead for everyone or just me?
[22:41:26] <Tobias> just you
[22:42:25] <waqas> Works fine
[22:42:35] <waqas> You sent ".", then left, then joined again
[22:42:45] <Florob> yes. It is back to normal now...
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[22:55:40] <Zash> -do util.encodings.base64
[22:56:06] <Zash> oh
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