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[03:26:23] <aboody> 8
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[07:13:21] <Huda.kiwi> Hi
[07:13:45] <Huda.kiwi> How is everybody?
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[07:15:39] <Huda.kiwi> ????
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[07:34:06] <wilson46527> hello guys, i need some help
[07:34:18] <Kev_> Go ahead.
[07:35:17] <wilson46527> i want to make a IM that supports google, i have been reading the XMPP, but i still don't get what is the right path, can
anyone tell me.
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[07:35:48] <Kev_> Do you want a client to connect to Google, or a server that can federate with Google?
[07:35:57] <wilson46527> a client
[07:36:11] <Kev_> And do you want to write your own or to use one that exists?
[07:36:11] <wilson46527> that i want to build
[07:36:15] <Kev_> OK.
[07:36:16] <wilson46527> my own
[07:37:42] <Kev_> Then you want to grab an XMPP library with an appropriate license, probably read http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596521271
and get coding :)
[07:38:15] <wilson46527> i have been reading http://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc6120.html#streams-open
[07:39:47] <Kev_> Reading RFC6120/6121 is sensible too - although it might be hard going without a primer like http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596521271
first if you're new to XMPP.
[07:40:38] <wilson46527> yeah, i am new
[07:41:12] <Kev_> You also shouldn't need to know the RFCs in great depth is you're using an existing XMPP library.
[07:41:51] <wilson46527> hey your second link did not open anything
[07:42:16] <Kev_> That's the one.
[07:42:37] <Kev_> I've not read that one, but I've been told it's a good book if you want to write a website using Strophe.js.
[07:42:44] <Kev_> I was one of the authors of the O'Reilly one.
[07:43:01] <wilson46527> i dont want to write asite, i want to develop a desktop based application as in an IM
[07:43:18] <Kev_> The O'Reilly book's probably better for you, then.
[07:43:40] <Kev_> Is this a Free (open-source) application, or proprietary?
[07:43:49] <wilson46527> http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596521271/preview, THIS
[07:43:50] <wilson46527> ?
[07:44:03] <Kev_> Yes, that.
[07:44:07] <wilson46527> i have not yet decided, but i am going to code it in c#
[07:44:50] <wilson46527> have you been working on some projects undertaking xmpp?
[07:45:20] <Kev_> Then the Matrix library by AG Software is probably what you want for non-open-source C#. Although some people using C# get
a Swiften (C++) license and wrap that instead.
[07:45:30] <Kev_> Yes, I've been doing XMPP for quite a while.
[07:46:03] <Kev_> (http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xmpp-council/ <- Kevin Smith)
[07:46:29] <Kev_> Although I should probably update that now I do XMPP stuff for my day job as well.
[07:47:43] <wilson46527> so, the offcial XMPP docs says a lot about xml streams communication between two systems, so does this mean that those xml
frames have to be in the database and then the data from the clients goes on to the server on to the other client?
[07:49:49] <Kev_> Database?
[07:50:14] <wilson46527> i meant the server
[07:51:06] <Kev_> You send stanzas from your client along the stream to the server, which then forwards them to the right recipient.
[07:53:42] <wilson46527> ok...
[07:58:12] <wilson46527> and sir, i don't get what jabber is, can you please help me out with that
[07:59:20] <Kev_> Jabber means different things. It's the name of the first server (1999), it was the name of the protocol until it was standardised
in 2004, and these days it's used to mean the public network that uses XMPP (i.e. Jabber is to XMPP as The Web is to HTTP).
[08:00:23] <wilson46527> ok, so i XMPP is the protocol that supports IM and jabber is like an API, am i correct?
[08:01:13] <Kev_> XMPP is the protocol, Jabber is the network.
[08:02:13] <wilson46527> and all those terms like, jabber:id, jabber:client, jabber:server, what do they mean?
[08:02:24] <Kev_> They're part of the protocol.
[08:03:57] <wilson46527> ok, so can i assume that xmpp is the specific protocol, and jabber is a method, parts of which is used to communicate to the
[08:04:29] <Kev_> Jabber doesn't have a precise meaning - XMPP does.
[08:04:55] <wilson46527> does that o'relly bokk have it all explained in depth
[08:04:58] <wilson46527> ?
[08:05:42] <Kev_> It gives you enough to get going - if you want everything in exact detail, the RFCs give that.
[08:06:28] <Kev_> The book gives explanation about how you use the stuff, rather than just the protocol rules like the RFCs.
[08:07:25] <wilson46527> ok, thank you sir, one last question, can i get your contact detail so that i could contact you if i get some big trouble?
[08:07:37] <Kev_> I'm usually hanging around in here.
[08:09:01] <wilson46527> ok sir, i will get to you :)
[08:12:40] <wilson46527> i got it now, jabber is a class of xmpp
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[11:46:27] <hayes14675> hi guys
[11:47:00] <hayes14675> I have a problem with connection to jabber.org via Psi
[11:47:09] <Kev_> Go on.
[11:47:26] <hayes14675> it's just not connecting
[11:47:37] <hayes14675> with default settings
[11:48:19] <Kev_> Well, you're talking on the service right now, so it's at least partly up. Let's see.
[11:48:35] <hayes14675> yep
[11:48:55] <Kev_> I just connected quickly with no problem.
[11:49:16] <Kev_> So, what happens if you telnet to hermes.jabber.org on port 5222?
[11:49:39] <hayes14675> Trying 188.8.131.52...
Connected to hermes.jabber.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
[11:49:46] <hayes14675> it connects
[11:49:53] <Kev_> And then type
[11:49:57] <Kev_> (And enter)
[11:50:00] <Kev_> It should stream error.
[11:50:51] <hayes14675> dammit, I restarted Psi and it connected successfully
[11:50:55] <Kev_> Excellent.
[11:51:00] <hayes14675> thanks
[11:51:01] <Kev_> Happy to help :D
[11:51:04] <hayes14675> :D
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[11:52:04] * monroe17382 joined the chat.
[11:52:35] <monroe17382> in jingle, in what stage does a client need to send his IP address for p2p video?
[11:53:40] <monroe17382> in the session-initiate and session-accept stanzas or session-info stanza?
[11:56:04] <Tobias> as initiator, in session-initiate
[11:56:37] <monroe17382> Tobias: thanks
[11:56:58] <monroe17382> what should I do if the users only knows about the bare jid of each other?
[11:57:37] <monroe17382> can I send the session-initiate to the bare jid and the server will take care of sending it to the highest priority?
[11:58:02] <Tobias> monroe17382, you should detect the full JID first
[11:58:06] <Tobias> http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0167.html#example-1
[11:58:26] <monroe17382> how can I detect it?
[11:59:07] <Tobias> he needs to send it to you via <presence/> stanzas...if you have subscribed to her presence, this is done automatically
[11:59:34] <Tobias> for cases you don't automatically get the full resource, I don't know...maybe Kev_ does
[11:59:59] <monroe17382> Tobias: in my case the users are not subscribed to each other presence
[12:00:09] <monroe17382> they know about each other through a website
[12:00:34] <monroe17382> and the website only knows about the bare jid
[12:01:04] <Tobias> the client that wants to receive a jingle session could send a direct presence stanza to the bare jid of the to-be initiator
[12:01:44] <Tobias> Jingle is all about peer-2-peer, between two endpoints. bare JIDs sadly don't identify those endpoints, they identify accounts
[12:02:57] <monroe17382> I don't see how a chat message is different than a jingle session-initiate stanza
[12:03:20] <monroe17382> you send it to the bare jid or full jid and the client/server decide what to do with it
[12:03:23] <Kev_> <message/> vs <iq/>
[12:03:48] <monroe17382> let's say I have a dating website with a list of online users
[12:03:58] <Kev_> I have a dating website with a list of online users
[12:03:59] <monroe17382> in a dating website users are not subscribed to each other presence
[12:04:07] <Kev_> in a dating website users are not subscribed to each other presence
[12:04:30] <Kev_> Silliness aside...
[12:04:40] <monroe17382> user1 wants to start a video chat with user2
[12:04:45] <Kev_> The sensible thing to do is to send a directed presence before trying to initiate a Jingle session.
[12:05:16] <Kev_> Or if the users are already sending chat messages, that means they know the full JIDs.
[12:05:26] <monroe17382> so if user1 wants to start a video chat with user2, he first sends a dircted presence stanza
[12:05:52] <Kev_> I'm asuming this is some closed client ecosystem.
[12:06:16] <monroe17382> yes
[12:06:28] <Kev_> In which case you can throw some custom payload into the presence if you like, and treat /that/ as the request for Jingleness,
and then automatically accept the following Jingle session.
[12:07:03] <monroe17382> ok
[12:07:28] <monroe17382> I also don't understand something about presence priority
[12:07:44] <Tobias> and what?
[12:07:48] <monroe17382> let's say I'm connected with one resource
[12:08:05] <monroe17382> and than connecting with another resource which sets the priority higher than the first one
[12:08:08] <monroe17382> that's fine
[12:08:31] <monroe17382> now I'm using again the first resource. Does it needs to set the priority higher again?
[12:08:52] <monroe17382> will the priority keep increasing all the time if I'm switching between the resources?
[12:09:02] <Tobias> nope...priority is set by a client
[12:09:12] <monroe17382> that's the problem
[12:09:21] <Tobias> priority defines what happens when you deal with 'bare' JIDs
[12:09:28] <monroe17382> I'm switching between two clients
[12:09:54] <Kev_> To what end?
[12:09:55] <monroe17382> if there was something like "active" resource that I can understand
[12:10:07] <Tobias> monroe17382, http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0296.html maybe this is of interest to you
[12:11:15] <monroe17382> that's a client behviour
[12:11:25] <monroe17382> presence priority is handled by the server
[12:11:45] <Tobias> yeah..client's set priorities
[12:11:55] <Tobias> *clients
[12:11:59] <monroe17382> why not have "active" resource
[12:12:15] <monroe17382> you are using your pidgin client so you set the presence and "active"=true
[12:12:30] <Kev_> Because more than one client may be active.
[12:12:31] <monroe17382> than you switch to gtalk client and you set "active"=true there
[12:13:10] <monroe17382> active=true means the last client that is active instead of fighting over priority
[12:13:15] <Tobias> monroe17382, some clients automatically decrease their priority on inactivity
[12:13:39] <monroe17382> that can lead to unexpected behaviour
[12:14:01] <Tobias> sure...that behavior isn't standartized AFAIK
[12:14:23] <monroe17382> isn't it more natural that the last used resource is the highest priority one (active)
[12:14:49] <monroe17382> than the server can know which resource to send bare jid stanzas to
[12:15:05] <monroe17382> and clients don't need to guess what to do about priority
[12:15:38] <monroe17382> if presence priority is set, it'll be used instead of active resource with more flexibility to the user
[12:18:07] <monroe17382> an example could be two browsers with gmail chat
[12:18:18] <monroe17382> gmail knows which browser is the active one
[12:18:32] <monroe17382> and I don't think they are using presence priority
[12:35:13] <Tobias> no..but they know about the full JID
[12:38:49] <monroe17382> Tobias: if you have two browser connected to the same google account, the not active one will collapse all chat panels
[12:39:21] <monroe17382> and when you open the non active window, it'll sync the conversation and only then let you open the chat panels
[12:39:43] <monroe17382> so it has something like active/not active awerness
[12:40:12] <Tobias> yeah..IIRC there's a group of people in the XSF that are developing XEPs which help mimic such behavior
[12:40:34] <monroe17382> does the XEP has a name?
[12:41:32] <Tobias> Kev_ should know, IIRC the xep was about message archiving and helping to move a converstaion (including history) from one
resource to another
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[12:45:32] <monroe17382> what I'm more interested with is how to handle the active resource
[12:45:52] <monroe17382> not how to archive and retrieve the chat history
[12:47:51] <Tobias> well..i don't know right now...but you couldtry sending a mail to http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards
[12:48:12] <Tobias> there you'll reach a wider audience of xmpp devs
[12:48:30] <monroe17382> thanks
[12:49:01] <Tobias> you're welcome
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[15:15:49] <Huda.kiwi> مرحبا
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[17:24:19] <TimmyT> Hey guys
[17:26:04] <louiz’> hi
[17:27:01] <TimmyT> Hi louiz
[17:27:30] <TimmyT> Do u know how to use xmpp for yahoo?
[17:33:11] <naw> you mean how to use a transport to add your yahoo contacts to your xmpp account?
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[20:18:45] <bird87> Hi
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[22:42:50] <redfox55> السلام عليكن
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[23:17:34] <harrison15624> I just created a jabber.org account on Ubuntu operating system, but i cant sign into the messenger of find to access emails
from this about. Can anyone advise me further?
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[23:44:42] <louiz’> hum
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