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[16:52:17] <evilotto> what is supposed to happen to s2s connections when a server crashes? Meaning, if I'm connected to jabber.org and I am accessing something (say, a muc) on jibber.gov and jabber.org crashes, what becomes of me in the muc on jibber.gov ?
[16:53:50] <Kev> Then the MUC won't know you've gone away. What should then happen is that the MUC sends you a message, your resource has gone away so jabber.org bounces it (when it's back up) and the MUC removes the ghost, but that's different behaviour from the old XMPP spec and won't happen on jabber.org until (probably the next) a future update.
[16:56:28] <evilotto> is that behavior explicit in the current spec? I recall looking for this in some spec and couldn't find much.
[16:57:12] <Kev> Yes, 6121.
[16:57:20] <Kev> Or, well.
[16:57:43] <Kev> The bouncing is in 6121. I don't think xep45 says to kick users that're bouncing your messages, but that's common sense.
[16:57:43] <evilotto> why can't the remote server remove all remote resources when the s2s connection closes?
[16:58:07] <Kev> Because an s2s connection closing doesn't mean anything.
[16:58:30] <Kev> Unlike a C2S session.
[16:58:51] <darkrain_> e.g. at least one server times out idle connections
[16:58:59] <evilotto> granted, a crash won't necessarily immediately close the connection, but it will eventually get network errors.
[16:59:24] <Kev> evilotto: That's not what I mean. I mean that an S2S session closing is not an error.
[16:59:43] <Kev> Some servers decide to close them for no particular reason, as darkrain_ says.
[17:00:55] <evilotto> oh, so s2s connections are effectively virtual, and only need to be real if there's something to send?
[17:01:03] <Kev> Yes.
[17:01:23] <Hermitifier> But even new RFC doesn't say server MUST bounce back message with error
[17:02:49] <Hermitifier> It may drop it silently, if client managed to reconnect
[17:03:06] <Hermitifier> And with random resource strings, there will be no full jid match.
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[18:34:38] <stpeter> I wonder if Apple's new iMessage service is based on XMPP...
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[18:35:43] <jameschurchman> yeah they say later on "Demo over! "We're actually building this on the push notification we built, so we know how to scale this.""
[18:35:50] <stpeter> aha
[18:35:53] <stpeter> good to know
[18:35:56] <jameschurchman> so i reckon it is xmpp under the hood
[18:36:16] <jameschurchman> shame its an open standard not really opened up :-(
[18:36:19] <stpeter> http://www.9to5mac.com/70762/wwdc-2011-apple-unveils-imessage-a-new-messaging-service-between-all-ios-5-devices/ says "delivery receipts" *and* "read receipts" -- XEP-0184 anyway?
[18:36:24] <stpeter> jameschurchman: true
[18:36:39] <stpeter> jameschurchman: perhaps they'll get there eventually...
[18:36:48] <jameschurchman> yeah thats true
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[18:59:38] <S[r]us> imessage.apple.com only has MX records
[19:02:30] <S[r]us> wonder where the XMPP server would be located
[19:04:31] <stpeter> well
[19:04:39] <stpeter> it seems that it's not XMPP
[19:04:55] <stpeter> I was mistaken
[19:05:15] <stpeter> or, my information was out of date
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[19:32:16] <S[r]us> recently captured some facebook chat traffic by coincidence; it uses enormously large resourceparts for user jid.. wonder what good that does
[19:33:49] <darkrain_> Perhaps they save a lot of state in there (since their XMPP interface fronts their actual chat infrastructure), but I don't know
[19:34:10] <S[r]us> plausible
[19:34:22] <darkrain_> Do they override a user-specified resource?
[19:34:37] <S[r]us> not sure.. I'm not on facebook
[19:34:57] <S[r]us> I just captured some traffic that was broadcasted through our local switch
[19:35:04] <S[r]us> was not intended for my server
[19:35:51] <S[r]us> wasn't encrypted, which is strange
[19:36:10] <darkrain_> They originally didn't support encryption (they do now, but it's in beta/new/test/...or something)
[19:36:20] <S[r]us> ah
[19:37:10] <darkrain_> Haha, that resource isn't too huge. You should join a Google Talk MUC and look at the auto-generated JID for that ;)
[19:38:14] <S[r]us> it was a few hundred chars iirc
[19:39:04] <S[r]us> with '_' separating subitems it seemed
[19:39:29] <S[r]us> somewhat confirming your hunch on state info
[19:40:45] <darkrain_> Mine is 28 characters, starting with what I specified as the resource
[19:41:38] <darkrain_> 23 if I don't specify a resource in Pidgin (so that's a static length; I had a "Work_" in there when it was 28)
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[19:43:28] <S[r]us> maybe users logged in through the webchat (no idea how facebook works) get different resources
[19:43:53] <S[r]us> or request different ones for that matter
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