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[02:22:45] <madison24598> hi all
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[02:26:02] <taft35583> anyone here?
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[10:27:10] <hesgoodboy> ?
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[14:14:57] <cleveland53424> hello people
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[14:33:44] <fillmore22424> hello
[14:34:08] <fillmore22424> i am having issues while conneting jabber
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[14:36:38] <cleveland53424> and what issues might that be?
[14:38:31] <louiz’> what client?
[14:51:14] <cleveland53424> what jabber server would you guys recommend?
[14:51:30] <cleveland53424> ...for game communication
[14:52:03] <cleveland53424> like which server application
[14:52:06] <cleveland53424> i hope you know what i mean
[14:53:45] <louiz’> yeah
[14:53:47] <louiz’> prosody
[14:53:58] <Kev> I usually recommend Prosody if you want Free, and M-Link if you want commercial support.
[14:54:06] <louiz’> but what is “game communication”?
[14:54:46] <cleveland53424> i want to send messages constantly
[14:54:53] <cleveland53424> in order to update player positions, etc
[14:56:30] <louiz’> you want to make a real-time game using XMPP?
[14:57:42] <cleveland53424> yes, is that a good idea?
[14:58:00] <louiz’> for an action game (FPS or something), not really
[14:58:20] <cleveland53424> hm..
[14:58:21] <louiz’> XMPP is kind of heavy and is not really made for REALtime playing
[14:58:26] <Kev> louiz’: I'd be interested to know what you're basing that on.
[14:58:45] <Kev> When I looked into message switching times because I was interested whether this was possible, they were insignificant next to network latency.
[14:58:49] <louiz’> on the fact that a stanza is heavy by definition
[14:59:10] <louiz’> and if you’re sending 30 stanza/second, I think that would not be good.
[15:00:00] <louiz’> I would not even use TCP for an online FPS…
[15:00:13] <louiz’> but for something like a strategy game, sure, go on.
[15:00:19] <cleveland53424> Kev, any response?
[15:00:26] <cleveland53424> louiz, what would you use for an online fps?
[15:01:04] <Kev> cleveland53424: To what?
[15:02:01] <louiz’> UDP and my own little protocol to make sur the packets are in order (or ignored if too olds)
[15:02:03] <cleveland53424> to louiz further argumentation against jabber real-time playage :) I would just be interested to hear it
[15:02:22] <Kev> I'm not sure louiz’ has given an argument other than "I think it's a bad idea" :)
[15:02:28] <louiz’> indeed
[15:02:44] <louiz’> But I think TCP is a bad idea, too :)
[15:02:45] <Kev> I'd do some testing if it were me, with the type of data you're thinking of using, and seeing what the characteristics are.
[15:03:20] <Kev> As I say, I did some testing a while back that showed that message switching times were really quite quick (on M-Link, in this case), but whether it's quick enough would need you to test it.
[15:04:31] <cleveland53424> i see
[15:04:48] <louiz’> indeed. But I just base what I’m saying on various internet articles about network game programming
[15:05:47] <Kev> There may well be a point at which off the shelf components aren't suitable, and one needs to write specialised alternatives, but I think it's worth testing what it is, first.
[15:06:21] <cleveland53424> sure
[15:06:27] <Kev> So I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that e.g. Quake 7 over XMPP would be a bad idea, but I think it's worth testing these things.
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[15:06:54] <Kev> As louiz’ says, conventional wisdom is that UDP is more commonly used for twitch games.
[15:07:18] <cleveland53424> im startting to think that theres nothing useful in the shelves, cause its more convenient to build your own udp server
[15:08:12] <Kev> *shrug*
[15:08:34] <cleveland53424> got lots of stuff to try :P
[15:08:46] <cleveland53424> thanks for the prosody reference
[15:08:48] <Kev> I'm from an academic background, I like to test things before being certain.
[15:09:33] <louiz’> yeah, but sometimes it’s too much work, for just some tests…
[15:10:01] <Kev> louiz’: Less work to write your own code than quickly check if someone else's works? Rarely
[15:10:26] <louiz’> the issue is that “quickly check” is rarely possible :p
[15:10:47] <cleveland53424> i hear that... the time it takes me to set up some server... oh boy
[15:12:14] <Kev> louiz’: You really think it's quicker to write your own high-performance server (bearing in mind that we're talking about switching times in the single-digits of milliseconds possibly being too slow) is going to be faster?
[15:12:26] <Kev> +English
[15:12:57] <Kev> I mean, you need to perform all the same tests on your own code once you're written that, too.
[15:13:48] <louiz’> hum, maybe
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[15:16:22] <cleveland53424> can i ask you guys one more thing?
[15:16:44] <louiz’> of course
[15:16:53] <cleveland53424> why most of the servers have "ports" for freeBSD? isnt freeBSD like the most common linux OS?
[15:17:04] <Kev> FreeBSD isn't a Linux OS at all.
[15:17:26] <cleveland53424> oh, pardon my sillyness
[15:17:37] <Kev> I don't have any statistics on relative usage of Linux and FreeBSD, but you might be able to find some on $SEARCH_ENGINE_OF_CHOICE.
[15:18:11] <cleveland53424> "FreeBSD® is an advanced operating system for modern server, desktop, and embedded computer platforms"
[15:18:13] <cleveland53424> i found this
[15:18:20] <cleveland53424> im sorry, i dont quite get it
[15:18:25] <louiz’> yeah, but it’s not using Linux
[15:18:35] <louiz’> that’s an other operating system
[15:18:59] <cleveland53424> oh
[15:19:06] <cleveland53424> thanks :)
[15:19:06] <louiz’> also Free Software, etc. Also UNIX-like, but not working in the same way, internally.
[15:19:38] <cleveland53424> so practically all programs have to have ports for freeBSD in order to run on it?
[15:20:04] <louiz’> no, some software can run by default on FreeBSD
[15:20:40] <louiz’> if they are developped in python for example, all code runs the same on almost any OS
[15:21:11] <louiz’> but if it’s C, some code may be thought only for Linux and might not run on FreeBSD.
[15:21:25] <louiz’> but that depends
[15:37:46] <cleveland53424> is it possible to find already compiled prosody?
[15:37:49] <cleveland53424> im not a sudoer :\
[15:38:21] <louiz’> you can compile and run it without being a sudoer
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[15:38:34] <louiz’> just, that won’t be installed in /usr/bin etc
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[15:44:31] <cleveland53424> can i do that using pkg_add?
[15:45:05] <louiz’> that’s on freebsd, right?
[15:45:31] <louiz’> what’s the issue with just compiling the sources by hand and running ./prosody yourself?
[15:49:06] <cleveland53424> yeah
[15:49:39] <cleveland53424> i had issues actually getting the source. currently i have these
[15:49:40] <cleveland53424> http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/net-im/prosody/
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[15:50:05] <cleveland53424> am i going the right way? is this the sources?
[15:51:17] <louiz’> those are the prosody freebsd’s port. That means that’s only some Makefiles and some patch that will download prosody’s sources, and compile them on your system
[15:51:47] <louiz’> prosody’s sources are not here, but doing “make” or “make build” should work
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[15:54:10] <cleveland53424> it doesnt, it can't find /usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk
[15:54:34] <louiz’> ah :/
[15:54:51] <louiz’> I’m not a Freebsd user, so I don’t know :(
[15:54:58] <louiz’> ah
[15:55:24] <louiz’> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/ports-using.html That may be helpful
[15:55:34] <cleveland53424> thanks
[15:55:55] <louiz’> maybe you need to use portsnap fetch, etc
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[16:48:41] <coward19623> hi is the controle center off line at the moment?
[16:48:56] <Kev> The what?
[16:49:07] <coward19623> kbot controle centre
[16:50:18] <Kev> What address should it be at?
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[16:51:16] <Kev> Shame.
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[17:19:49] <hesgoodboy> evening
[17:19:57] <hesgoodboy> stpeter: you available?
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[17:35:04] <hesgoodboy> stpeter?
[17:35:56] <Kev> Are you asking about deleting accounts again?
[17:36:20] <stpeter> Kev: he's asking to get an account name he likes that is taken by someone else
[17:36:25] <hesgoodboy> yeah
[17:36:25] <Kev> Right.
[17:36:33] <hesgoodboy> I wrote you an email stpeter
[17:36:35] <stpeter> to which my response is "life sucks, doesn't it?"
[17:36:35] <Kev> I've said before that we won't be deleting any inactive accounts for a number of months.
[17:36:36] <hesgoodboy> did you get that?
[17:36:50] <stpeter> hesgoodboy: yes, along with thousands of others
[17:37:03] <stpeter> hesgoodboy: your wish for a nice account name is very low on my list of priorities
[17:37:17] <hesgoodboy> but stpeter, you said I should write you an email and you would see what you can do
[17:37:27] <jameschurchman> and i have a better suggestion... :-)
[17:37:30] <stpeter> hesgoodboy: just add the number 1 to the end and create nyze1@jabber.org or whatever
[17:37:47] <hesgoodboy> hm
[17:37:54] <jameschurchman> why don't you use a hosted xmpp service ( like the process one i forget the name of)
[17:38:03] <stpeter> hesgoodboy: I decided that you can just create another account name, or use a different server like jabber.ru, or run your own IM server at nyzerocks.com or whatever
[17:38:03] <jameschurchman> and get a much better one
[17:38:17] <jameschurchman> so like me@ <mailto:me@hesgoodboy.net>hesgoodboy.net <mailto:me@hesgoodboy.net>
[17:38:30] <hesgoodboy> ...
[17:38:42] <jameschurchman> that would be better if you care about your jid alot than hesgoodboy@jabber.org <mailto:hesgoodboy@jabber.org> id say :-)
[17:38:48] <hesgoodboy> ok, thanks you the info, won't ask again...
[17:40:07] <jameschurchman> you will need a domain name but http://hosted.im/ will let you run your own xmpp server, either that or if you have a vps ( virtual server etc.. amazon do free ones for a year, other are like less that $40 a year)
[17:40:24] <jameschurchman> then you can do what you like :-0
[17:40:29] <jameschurchman> just a thought
[17:41:13] <stpeter> jameschurchman: yeah, it's good to be a full citizen of the Internet :)
[17:41:26] <jameschurchman> hehehe yes indeed!!
[17:42:45] <hesgoodboy> so, good evening then
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[17:42:48] <stpeter> jameschurchman: I posted about that back in 2006 https://stpeter.im/index.php/2006/01/13/becoming-a-citizen-of-the-internet/
[17:42:53] <stpeter> FWIW :)
[17:43:20] <jameschurchman> i see, will give that a read
[17:43:45] <jameschurchman> just watching the engadget live blog of all the apple stuff from their developer conference
[17:43:51] <jameschurchman> http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/06/wwdc-2011-liveblog-steve-jobs-talks-ios-5-os-x-lion-icloud-an/?sort=oldest&refresh=0 :-)
[17:45:25] <stpeter> /me cries at his overflowing inbox
[17:45:46] <jameschurchman> ( good article btw, as long as ICANN is always here to stay :-) )
[17:45:56] <stpeter> heh
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[18:17:13] <jameschurchman> 2:12PM "I believe we have the best messaging client on the iPhone. It works tremendously well to send text messages and photos and our customers love it -- our iPhone users. But what about our iPad users, and our iPod touch users?"
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[18:17:24] <jameschurchman> 2:12PM New messaging service between all iOS users, regardless of device.
[18:17:29] <jameschurchman> from apples wwdc...
[18:17:55] <jameschurchman> im guessing its totally proprietary but that might be bassed on xmpp as apple bases its push stuff on xmpp
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[18:23:59] <stpeter> jameschurchman: possible
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[18:38:41] <az10> question Howto use email jabber.org?
[18:39:26] <Kev> Jabber.org doesn't offer an email service.
[18:40:27] <jameschurchman> gmail ? :-)
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[18:44:13] <az10> O
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[18:49:54] <stpeter> /me shudders to think about offering an email service...
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[18:52:36] <naw> those who want jabber/xmpp + email should take a look to gmail or gmx
[18:52:45] <naw> (or other providers)
[18:53:21] <stpeter> or run their own server :)
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[18:55:37] <az10> Yeah
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[23:11:01] <lincoln38493> hello
[23:11:33] <lincoln38493> a coworker of mine suggested I look into jabber as an all office im communication tool
[23:12:00] <lincoln38493> is it possible to have my own jabber server in my office and just have coworkers as users?
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[23:30:28] <lincoln38493> so i guess noone is in here :(
[23:30:47] <ThurahT> not around this time..
[23:31:07] <ThurahT> but answer is: yes
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