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[12:38:55] <Alex> 9 of 10 messages in identi.ca are Spam today :(
[12:39:41] <louiz’> not that much, but yeah, a lot are
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[12:46:44] <Alex> louiz’: looks like I am subscribed to teh wrong groups only ;-)
[12:47:06] <louiz’> maybe ;)
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[15:07:06] <DocGreen> hi
[15:09:03] <Kev> Hello.
[15:10:25] <DocGreen> Is this the right place for information about xmpp and its capabilities?
[15:10:50] <Kev> You can ask.
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[15:11:42] <DocGreen> i was wondering, if you could use xmpp for file syncing over multiple machines
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[15:13:10] <DocGreen> i stumbled across jakeapp.com while i was searching for an alternative to dropbox and co
[15:13:38] <DocGreen> and obiously that is not an ongoing project anymore
[15:15:01] <Kev> You could use it for that if you wanted.
[15:15:13] <Kev> XMPP is, at its core, just a message switching system.
[15:15:41] <Kev> Then with assorted extensions that let it do things like IM services, file transfers, VOIP, whatever.
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[15:17:27] <DocGreen> but does it make sense? it would be a nice idea to have such capabilities, but i could imagine some issues i am not thinking of right now
[15:23:01] <Kev> Well, you've not really said much about what you want to do.
[15:23:24] <Kev> If you want to have some service that you log into and that different machines can send a message to each other saying "Please take this file from me" then it'll work fine.
[15:24:30] <DocGreen> yeah basically thats it: I want to log on on multiple machines with the same id and then want each system to be able to announce new files and changes to files
[15:24:56] <Kev> You could easily build such a system with XMPP.
[15:25:30] <DocGreen> so i can get rid of all those "cloud" services
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[15:26:47] <DocGreen> that is the main intention, to have synced data between multiple machines and os' without a third party involved like dropbox inc. ubuntu one and however they call themselves
[15:27:48] <Kev> Well, there's still an XMPP server involved.
[15:27:56] <Kev> You could, of course, control that server yourself.
[15:29:26] <DocGreen> of course, but i could setup one on my own, and i could use that one only for the syncing communication and let the clients connect directly
[15:30:31] <DocGreen> so the server manages the messages about new files and all the data necessary but the clients exchange their files directly without using the bandwidth of the server
[15:32:19] <Kev> Right.
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[15:32:49] <Kev> Although you can always fall back to the server for inband transfer if other methods fail (only if it's your server though, doing that through jabber.org or similar would be really antisocial).
[15:33:12] <DocGreen> exactly
[15:39:41] <DocGreen> I came across jakeapp and the idea was striking simple, lots of people use their messengers daily and on multiple machines. so it seemed to be a logical thing to assume, syncing of files should be done over their im-accounts
[15:41:21] <DocGreen> now i have to find someone to program that :)
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[18:09:29] <stpeter> heh, someone in my roster has a buggy client, because his presence says "X is Online [I'm not here right now]"
[18:09:44] <stpeter> auto-away problems :)
[18:11:36] <louiz’> :D
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[18:49:37] <srldd> anyone available for a quick question on clustered xmpp servers
[18:50:04] <srldd> ?
[18:53:18] <srldd> Do clustered xmpp servers sync presences to all servers within the cluster, or do individual nodes only care about who is connected locally and pass on any presence requests to all other nodes in the cluster?
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[18:55:33] <deryni> That sounds likely to be implementationally defined to me. Though there may very well be reasons one or the other is necessary (that a server author would know that I don't).
[18:55:41] <Maranda> srldd, hmm google shows me these prominently? http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0051.html
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[18:55:57] <Maranda> http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0110.html
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[18:56:54] <Maranda> Otherwise I don't know.
[18:58:39] <Maranda> both xeps are also deferred.
[18:58:45] <guus> Hello. I've got a question on XEP-0124 (bosh). Paragraph 6 states that content MUST NOT contain (...) Internal or external DTD subsets; Internal or external entity references (with the exception of predefined entities).
[18:59:24] <guus> my questions: a) can internal or external entities be defined in the content
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[19:00:06] <guus> b) what exactly are "internal or external DTD subsets" ? How do I recognize them (I have a hard time understanding XML 1.0 in that respect)
[19:03:12] <deryni> Quick read: <doctype> blocks or the representation of external sources of <doctype> blocks but I wouldn't quote me on that.
[19:04:21] <srldd> Hi Maranda, the first one applies more closely than the 2nd. I believe the first requires that users be assigned to a specific node within the cluster. I'm not sure if this is the common implementation of most xmpp servers with cluster capabilities and that is why I'm asking. Curious as to what the common practice is here.
[19:07:51] <Maranda> guus I guess it means that you don't want <!DOCTYPE or <!ELEMENT within the <body/> of the request
[19:08:04] <Maranda> diggin a bit on DTD in XML
[19:08:11] <guus> that's what I expect
[19:08:31] <guus> (at least for !ELEMENT, I wasn't sure on !DOCTYPE)
[19:08:50] <guus> but the phrasing of the entity references is confusing me a little
[19:09:37] <guus> where it says 'references', is it implying that entities cannot be defined, or that the existing entity references cannot be used.
[19:09:39] <Maranda> srldd, I'm not sure what's best, never attempted to do clustering with xmpp servers so I'm not really clueful on what is usually done.
[19:10:41] <srldd> Thanks for trying :) Just hoping someone might have some experience in here with it.
[19:10:51] <deryni> I don't think either of those XEPs is really relevant to the question.
[19:10:52] <guus> the addition of the text "with the exception of predefined entities" implies usage, not definition.
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[19:12:06] <Florob> guus, indeed. I read that as usage too
[19:13:08] <deryni> I'd read that as disallowing definition of entities as well, but still not my area of expertise.
[19:13:20] <deryni> But either way an entity definition wouldn't really be an entity reference.
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[19:17:00] <Florob> guus, that restriction actually stems from XMPP Core. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6120#section-11.1
[19:17:48] <guus> ah, I didn't realize that
[19:17:58] <guus> stpeter: any thoughts?
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[19:28:16] <MattJ> srldd, clustering really does depend on the implementation
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[19:40:18] <Florob> guus, may I ask where you're coming from with that question? Do you have any need for entities?
[19:41:03] <guus> I'm having a first stab at an implementation
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[19:41:16] <guus> writing some unit tests
[19:41:19] <guus> this popped up
[19:41:31] <guus> a server-sided implementation, that is.
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[19:44:31] <srldd> Hi MattJ, I'm asking which implementations are more common, presence syncing model or discovery model
[19:45:13] <MattJ> srldd, well it's hard to go on, considering there aren't that many implementations that actually do clustering
[19:45:56] <MattJ> ejabberd I believe is the broadcast-to-all-nodes model, though someone with more knowledge of ejabberd internals might be able to say with more confidence than I
[19:46:24] <srldd> My concern with that model is if you have a split between subsets of nodes
[19:46:36] <srldd> the resync could be enormous if you have a lot of users
[19:48:31] <deryni> I'm not sure ejabberd is sync-to-all, I'd actually assume it isn't given its message-passing/process-ness. That being said their might very well be core datastructure/storage that everyone updates.
[19:48:53] <deryni> I do know that it doesn't (last I knew anyway) handle disjoint nodes very well at all and that resync was often somewhat painful.
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[20:01:23] <guus> more on the subject of XEP-0124
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[20:01:54] <guus> what does this actually say? "The <body/> wrapper MUST contain zero or more complete XML immediate child elements"
[20:02:22] <guus> that any child elements must be 'complete' ?
[20:02:36] <MattJ> It must be valid XML, etc.
[20:02:57] <MattJ> <body><foo>part 2 follows in the next reque...</body> is not valid
[20:03:11] <MattJ> Just in case anyone tries it :)
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[20:04:17] <guus> valid as in well-formed?
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[20:05:03] <MattJ> Yes
[20:06:19] <guus> "The <body/> wrapper MUST be well-formed" would perhaps have been less ambiguous then
[20:12:13] <Florob> oh someone will do <body>&lt;message&gt;</body> then
[20:12:35] <MattJ> Oh for sure they will
[20:12:46] <MattJ> You should see the things I have seen :)
[20:12:48] <darkrain_> augh
[20:13:01] <MattJ> ...in pubsub
[20:13:06] <deryni> I think I like my eyes and brain too much for that.
[20:13:07] <darkrain_> That's like when I copy stanzas from Pidgin's debug window and send them to a MUC (and then see the resulting stanza in the debug window)
[20:13:25] <guus> ok, ok, I'll leave the spec-writing to those more qualified. My apologies for the arrogance ;)
[20:13:50] <MattJ> guus, oh, the specs aren't all roses, feedback is valued :)
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[21:34:06] <guus> gna gna
[21:34:11] <guus> http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0124.html <http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0124.html#wrapper>
[21:34:26] <guus> paragraph 9 and 23 introduce some HTML anchor issues ;)
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[23:27:31] <srldd> Are individual presences probes sent for every contact on a users list even if some of those contacts are on the same remote server? Also, when users server sends initial broadcast of presence to those subscribed to user, are there individual broadcasts for each subscription or 1 broadcast per remote server for all subscribed contacts on that remote server?
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[23:29:39] <srldd> RFC http://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc3921.html#presence wasn't very clear other than to say there was no To attribute
[23:30:55] <darkrain_> The core and IM specs were recently updated, so you should reference http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6121
[23:31:14] <darkrain_> To answer your questions though, yes, individual probes per contact.
[23:31:23] <srldd> thanks for the link, reading now, and thanks for the answer
[23:31:29] <darkrain_> and one initial broadcast per entity on remote server
[23:31:43] <srldd> I wasn't sure if there was an attempt to reduce the number of packets sent to a remote server if multiple contacts resided there
[23:31:59] <darkrain_> I think there has been talk of an extension which allowed for optimizations there (or at least there was talk of optimizations on the XMPP W-G list), but never any agreement
[23:32:40] <srldd> have they though of perhaps at the users server level modifying the xml to have To attribute with all contacts on that server listed?
[23:33:53] <srldd> ex: srldd@jabber.org and I have 3 contacts at xmpp.org, send a msg to xmpp.org with to: contact1, contact2, contact3
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