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[15:46:16] <Florob> Hy, am I correctly guesstimating that in rosters <group/> needs to contain at least one character, or do we allow groups with the empty string as name? (i.e. does xs:string forbid empty strings?)
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[17:19:57] <Florob> /me wonders how to take the silence
[17:21:30] <Tobias> if you don't like the silence, pick a different topic :P
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[20:14:17] <jabber_dev> hello ;-)
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[20:25:53] <invi> hi all, is here to discuss ideas about GSoC?
[20:26:50] <naw> I guess that here, or in the mail list
[20:28:16] <invi> ok, i wanted to propose some implementation for ejabberd, about federation protocols, ill send to list better to discuss ; ) thanks
[20:28:53] <Tobias> federation protocols?
[20:29:12] <invi> ostatus
[20:29:53] <Kev> invi: Ejabberd hasn't shown an interest in GSoC this year.
[20:30:03] <Kev> Prosody has, if you want to do server work.
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[20:33:42] <invi> Kev: you think ejabberd ppl could be still interested for the idea?
[20:34:45] <Kev> invi: I expect that if they wanted to participate, they'd have said so by now, but that doesn't stop you asking them.
[20:36:36] <invi> Kev: i understand, so guess if they get interested we can still go forward, i will contact
[20:37:24] <Kev> Ok.
[20:37:34] <Kev> I'd start thinking about a backup project too.
[20:37:35] <invi> Kev: Prosody looks tight-nice, im fan of spring, but i am for scalability for servers ; )
[20:38:27] <Kev> Spring?
[20:38:31] <Kev> Isn't that Java?
[20:38:39] <Kev> How is that related to Prosody?
[20:39:01] <invi> springrts, is a real-time strategy game with lua scripting
[20:39:12] <Kev> Ah.
[20:39:14] <invi> Kev: are you applying as student?
[20:39:23] <Kev> No, I'm a mentor and one of the org admins.
[20:40:06] <Tobias> invi: just a side question: where did you hear that prosody scales bad?
[20:40:41] <Kev> invi: There are some fun benchmarks of Lua vs. Erlang performance online somewhere.
[20:40:52] <Kev> I seem to remember Lua is faster by about a factor of ten.
[20:41:04] <Kev> /me Googles.
[20:42:17] <Tobias> and writing scalable distributed software in Erlang still requires pretty good knowledge of distributed systems so that they are still decently reliable
[20:43:25] <invi> really? then i had a misconception, i was assuming erlang for big servers and lua for smaller devices
[20:44:22] <invi> i would like to see this performance benchmarks
[20:44:33] <Kev> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=luajit&lang2=hipe
[20:44:38] <Kev> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=gcc&lang2=luajit
[20:44:41] <Link Mauve> A server suited for a small device will run good anyways on a bigger server.
[20:45:13] <Tobias> Kev: you know if HIPE is a JIT too?
[20:45:21] <Kev> Those seem to be suggesting that Lua is somewhere betwee 1* and 10* slower than C, and Erlang somewhere between 4* and 10* slower than Lua.
[20:45:28] <Kev> Tobias: No idea.
[20:47:35] <Tobias> according to *some* slides it seems to do JIT compilation too
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[21:28:19] <deryni> HiPE is a native compiler, I don't think it does JITting too (though I'll admit to not having paid it much attention).
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[21:34:18] <Florob> So I suppose noone has appeared that knows whether the empty string is a valid roster group name?
[22:24:38] <dwd> Gosh. Interesting thought.
[22:25:31] <dwd> Let's look at RFC 6121, then. :-)
[22:26:23] <Florob> uhh... didn't notice we know numbers now :)
[22:26:40] <dwd> Yeah, although it's not yet published.
[22:27:30] <Tobias> deryni: from http://ftp.csd.uu.se/papers/masters-theses/0296-andersson.pdf introduction to HIPE "HiPE [15, 22] is short for High Performance Erlang which is a just-in-time native code compiler for the Erlang/OTP system (described in section 2)."
[22:27:33] <deryni> I took a look earlier but didn't see anything helpful anywhere. Though I fully expect that I may just have missed it.
[22:27:39] <Florob> however AFAICT neither 3921 nor 6121 are particularly helpful in this regard. By now it appears to me it's legal...
[22:28:05] <dwd> Yup, it's legal.
[22:28:24] <dwd> However... That doesn't mean a client must render it differently to no group.
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[22:28:45] <Florob> Well... a client can render no groups at all.
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[22:29:07] <dwd> Specifically, groups "MAY" have meaning to a user, not MUST. A server MUST treat "" differently to no group, but a client needn't.
[22:29:36] <dwd> Florob, Right, but a client can also case-fold, etc, if it likes.
[22:30:29] <Florob> that's about meaning though. That means 89ß1304heswrjfd is a valid group, it does not however imply it's equal to 1ß3489weshö
[22:30:45] <Florob> or *can be treated equal to rather
[22:31:19] <Florob> I'd agree with you that the RFC does not forbid a client to handle them the same
[22:31:48] <dwd> Yeah.
[22:31:48] <deryni> Tobias: I think that's a slightly different use of just-in-time. That is I think that means it does the native compilation just-in-time but may or may not do the rest of what a jit does. I'd have to read more and I don't really care enough. =)
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[22:45:57] <Tobias> deryni: ahh..okay
[22:46:29] <Tobias> deryni: i know it copiles stuff to beam files and the runs it...but i don't know if it's the java way
[22:46:46] <Tobias> way's interpreter has jit, at least the hotspot one
[22:52:27] <deryni> .beam files are erlang bytecode generally, I don't know if hipe binaries are also .beam files (they might be).
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