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[12:34:06] <dbanes> Here's a question: Has anyone managed to proxy XMPP in the same way that that SMTP smart relays work?
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[12:37:58] <Kev> C2S or S2S?
[12:38:41] <Kev> C2S this is *vaguely* possible, depending on the requirements. S2S proxies need to be transparent (or have server configuration).
[12:40:24] <dbanes> We have C2S in place it's S2S I've been looking into, of course we already do it at the TCP level, but looking to proxy the protocol so we can apply content filters for clients before relaying to them.
[12:40:35] <dbanes> But I don't think it's possible with the current RFC's
[12:41:21] <dbanes> due to dial-back and 'from' addressing expectations of recieivng servcers etc
[12:41:24] <dbanes> servers
[12:42:03] <dbanes> maybe I need to write my first XEP :)
[12:42:42] <Kev> You can do it, it just takes some fiddling.
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[12:43:01] <Kev> M-Link Edge works as a filtering proxy, essentially.
[12:43:40] <dbanes> I thought M-Link Edge may do it, we use ejabberd though
[12:44:16] <dbanes> Trouble is if we open up XMPP servers to allow incoming from anyone we'll get spammed to death
[12:44:30] <Kev> Which is why XMPP doesn't allow it :)
[12:44:41] <dbanes> so a ecipient server would need to be configured to only accept from trusted IP's
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[12:44:58] <Kev> Well, no.
[12:45:05] <Kev> It needs to be configured to accept valid S2S.
[12:45:25] <Kev> You need the proxy to be able to legitimately act as the entity it's proxying.
[12:45:50] <Kev> (Or you have a closed network and you hard-code all the peers for each node, but that's not an option for the Internet)
[12:46:47] <dbanes> No, we'd need a generic approach that all server dev's support
[12:47:13] <Kev> Then you need the proxies to be able to authenticate as the entity they're proxying.
[12:47:51] <dbanes> or the receiving server(s) need to be configurable to accept traffic on behalf of certain domains
[12:48:09] <Kev> e.g. if you have a server that sits behind a proxy, you put the certs on the proxy, and configure DNS as if the proxy was the server.
[12:48:12] <dbanes> rather, that's an 'and'
[12:48:28] <Kev> Yes, as I said, that works fine as long as you're on a private deployment rather than the Internet.
[12:49:29] <dbanes> does S2S still use dial back? I'm a bit out of date with the specs. I suppose DNS fixes that
[12:49:46] <Kev> S2S uses dialback if it can't authenticate with certs.
[12:50:28] <dbanes> so if using certs the sender will be happy with DNS pointing to the proxy
[12:50:48] <Kev> If DNS points to the proxy, and the proxy has the right certs, everything is happy.
[12:50:54] <dbanes> then the proxy to receiver just needs to be configured
[12:51:01] <Kev> You just need to tell the server behind the proxy to send all s2s to the proxy.
[12:51:09] <Kev> M-Link can do this, I'm sure you could patch other servers.
[12:51:53] <dbanes> I agree, we're already doing all this with SMTP and TLS so I'm sure we can work it out
[12:52:28] <dbanes> main issue I see is 3rd party XMPP servers not being able to accept from and route to us.
[12:52:42] <Kev> To outside parties, there's no difference.
[12:52:58] <Kev> The proxy *is* the server, it talks like the server, it authenticates as the server, everything is good.
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[12:54:01] <dbanes> oh yes, of course. But the customers server will be thinking *it* is the server and will try to connect direct to the recipients server unless there's a way to tell it no tto
[12:58:49] <Kev> You just need to tell the server behind the proxy to send all s2s to the proxy. Kev @ 12:50 M-Link can do this, I'm sure you could patch other servers. 12:51
[13:00:48] <dbanes> OK that's nailed that one, thanks Kev. Back to The Definitive Guide now to get our web chat app kicked off. :-)
[13:05:06] <Kev> Excellent.
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[18:11:46] <thkoch2001> Hi. Anybody knows the pubsub protocol over here? Why does the response to disco#items not include the type of a noce, whether it's collection or leaf?
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[18:14:16] <stpeter> hmm
[18:14:47] <stpeter> it does: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html#entity-info
[18:15:26] <thkoch2001> stpeter: I'm reading Oreilly definitive guide to XMPP and in the example it doesn't. but that may be mistake
[18:15:46] <stpeter> aw, don't trust those books :)
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[18:15:51] <stpeter> the specs are definitive
[18:15:58] <thkoch2001> stpeter: thx. :-)
[18:16:06] <stpeter> perhaps there is a bug in the book
[18:16:09] <dbanes> bug in your server?
[18:19:24] <thkoch2001> stpeter: the spec also says, that the response to disco#items does not include the information whether it's a collection or leaf node
[18:22:04] <stpeter> thkoch2001: correct
[18:22:15] <stpeter> there is a difference between disco#items and disco#info
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[18:23:28] <thkoch2001> stpeter: I'm a bit disappointed about XMPP already... This unnecessarily makes client implementation harder.
[18:24:27] <Zash> Separation of metadata and child items?
[18:25:01] <stpeter> well, we had some long discussions about this topic in ~2002
[18:25:12] <stpeter> so the issue is long settled :)
[18:25:23] <stpeter> see http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0030.html vs. http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0011.html
[18:25:34] <thkoch2001> Zash: stpeter: so I better don't raise it again :-) ...
[18:25:45] <mathieui> stpeter, you don’t truste the book, yet your name’s on it :d
[18:25:47] <mathieui> -e
[18:26:03] <stpeter> both approaches have merit, but we decided to separate metadata and items
[18:26:05] <will.thompson> i don't trust a lot of things i wrote in the past :)
[18:26:30] <stpeter> thkoch2001: there are some errors in the book, but I don't have my copy here so I can't double-check
[18:27:09] <thkoch2001> stpeter: seems I already found the first incorrect stanza :-)
[18:27:23] <stpeter> we've processed some errata on the book
[18:27:32] <stpeter> but the specs are definitive -- the book even says that :)
[18:28:53] <stpeter> brb
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