Logs for jabber

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[02:20:33] <EvilCat> hello. I have a strange glitch, and I don't know if it's Miranda's fault or server's: whether I go online, a specific contact that I recently moved to Archive group appears again in General group.
[02:21:13] <EvilCat> I don't see related contact list options for Jabber, such as "don't use server-side list"...
[02:23:01] <MattJ> The contact moving could be a client or server bug
[02:23:17] <MattJ> the second thing, I don't see how you could not use the server-side contact list
[02:23:51] <EvilCat> how do I move it, then? it moved ok to General group.
[02:24:15] <MattJ> I just moved a contact from General to Archive and it worked for me
[02:24:24] <MattJ> but I'm not using Miranda
[02:24:41] <EvilCat> I'll try with other contact, brb...
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[02:26:10] <EvilCat> it's the group. contacts move ok between other group, but I can't move contacts from General. they keep appearing there once I reconnect.
[02:26:19] <EvilCat> (I move them while being online.)
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[05:13:19] <MattJ> EvilCat, shouldn't be a problem - perhaps temporarily try another client?
[05:13:40] <MattJ> But I need to sleep now, perhaps I can help debug it tomorrow if no-one else does :)
[05:13:51] <EvilCat> thank you.
[05:13:56] <MattJ> np
[05:13:57] <EvilCat> good night %)
[05:14:01] <MattJ> Same :)
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[09:48:22] <cobby> anyone here?
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[11:16:26] <amitparekh89> hi
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[12:32:05] <susi23k@jabber.org> :-D hi misha
[12:33:50] <susi23k@jabber.org> i think everybody is busy?
[12:34:47] <Kev> This is a help room, so most people only start responding when there are help questions.
[12:36:17] <susi23k@jabber.org> oh i am sorry! is this the help room about "jabber chat"? because i am a new one
[12:36:59] <naw> this is the help room of jabber.org and also about jabber/xmpp questions
[12:39:11] <susi23k@jabber.org> ok! when i am trying to select a particular room called "chat", to participate. i am unable to let myself in to that room! why?
[12:39:47] <Kev> What does your client tell you?
[12:40:52] <susi23k@jabber.org> nothing!
[12:42:25] <susi23k@jabber.org> i think only that room has a problem to load up
[12:44:24] <susi23k@jabber.org> have i said anything wrong kev?
[12:44:42] <Kev> Does your client have an XML console?
[12:46:22] <susi23k@jabber.org> i don't know! i am using ubuntu 10.10 & i connect my jabber account through the Emapathy Internet Messenger
[12:51:50] <susi23k@jabber.org> No response? from any body
[12:52:53] <Kev> Try using Psi, and see if that tells you what's wrong.
[12:53:15] <susi23k@jabber.org> ok! thank you
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[17:32:44] <naw> just a reminder, you really need a unused room cleanup in the server
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[20:01:57] <stpeter> naw: true, I think that feature is on the way
[20:02:12] <stpeter> hi wilson37741 :)
[20:02:28] <stpeter> hmph
[20:02:38] <stpeter> grant20056 shows up as still here
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[20:04:22] <louiz’> not anymore
[20:05:15] <stpeter> strange
[20:05:20] <stpeter> that was me, testing Speeqe
[20:05:27] <louiz’> ah
[20:05:29] <stpeter> maybe Speeqe.com has a timeout function
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[20:18:24] <Kev> The vagaries of BOSH?
[20:23:45] <stpeter> perchance
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[21:20:39] <stpeter> /me updates his password for www.jabber.org too
[21:20:50] <stpeter> so many passwords, so little time
[21:21:07] <stpeter> the cert has been updated at https://register.jabber.org/
[21:23:24] <misha> XEP-0027 is historical, is there any current standard for encryption/signing messages in xmpp?
[21:24:00] <stpeter> sigh
[21:24:28] <louiz’> aha, good question
[21:24:42] <stpeter> many people use OTR
[21:25:03] <stpeter> maybe we'll even standardize on that
[21:25:51] <misha> but what's up with 0027? it was flawed or what?
[21:26:17] <stpeter> it has some flaws, yes
[21:27:12] <louiz’> standardize OTR as the main E2E encryption method?
[21:28:26] <stpeter> louiz’: why not? everyone uses it
[21:28:30] <stpeter> and you don't need a PGP key
[21:28:37] <stpeter> after all, how many people have PGP keys?
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[21:29:46] <louiz’> I don't know. But I thought OTR was complicated and not user friendly. But I've never really read much about it nor tested…
[21:30:15] <stpeter> louiz’: what IM client do you use?
[21:30:27] <louiz’> poezio
[21:30:33] <louiz’> and gajim, before that
[21:31:09] <louiz’> I'm waiting for a good E2E Encryption method, well standardized, to implement it in poezio
[21:32:22] <stpeter> everyone is waiting
[21:32:27] <louiz’> I know :p
[21:32:33] <stpeter> I propose that we think seriously about making OTR that method
[21:32:40] <stpeter> brb
[21:32:47] <misha> it means writing a XEP..
[21:33:14] <louiz’> That would be great, if OTR has all the needed features for XMPP
[21:34:26] <misha> which one?
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[21:35:48] <louiz’> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-saintandre-xmpp-e2e-requirements-01 all these requirements (there are other pages, with other requirements, I think, but I think it's very similar)
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[21:55:46] <misha> brief reading of OTR shows that you still have to have public keys and share them between people.
[21:56:51] <stpeter> sure, they're just not PGP keys
[21:57:13] <stpeter> if you have a magical system that doesn't depend on public key cryptography, do tell :)
[21:57:31] <misha> sure there is no one, i bet :)
[21:57:54] <stpeter> I suppose folks could use Secure Remote Password
[21:58:00] <misha> but if be honnest, i see no advantage of OTR over OpenPGP
[21:58:29] <stpeter> misha: most people assume that to use OpenPGP you need OpenPGP keys, which not many people use
[21:58:40] <stpeter> OTR tends to be easier for most people because of the key management issues
[21:58:49] <stpeter> plus there is perfect forward secrecy
[21:58:57] <stpeter> PGP doesn't have PFS
[21:59:02] <stpeter> at least as far as I know
[21:59:43] <misha> okay, but by 'key management' you mean using web of trust?
[22:00:03] <louiz’> stpeter, but, what was wrong with E2E (the deprecated XEP), already? You didn't need a key, with that method
[22:00:17] <louiz’> with OTR you need one, that you have to send to all your contact?
[22:01:18] <stpeter> louiz’: most developers perceived the ESessions approach as overly complicated
[22:01:19] <misha> seem such question demand additional research of protocols, if be honnest, openpgp looks much easier to me now ;)
[22:01:20] <stpeter> /me shrugs
[22:01:35] <louiz’> but that's A LOT more easy for users, no?
[22:01:47] <louiz’> (E2E, I mean)
[22:02:00] <misha> users will use what developers would code
[22:02:01] <misha> :)
[22:02:22] <misha> overcomplicated -> not interested -> trash
[22:02:24] <stpeter> users can't use something if developers won't code it, because they'll never get the chance to use it
[22:02:36] <misha> heh
[22:02:49] <louiz’> but E2E was already in gajim. They had to do a HUGE work for that?
[22:03:01] <stpeter> easy to use and easy to develop = difficult combination
[22:03:11] <stpeter> louiz’: just a Google Summer of Code project
[22:03:19] <misha> by e2e you mean http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3923 ?
[22:03:34] <stpeter> louiz’: the fact that the developer fo ESessions never implemented it always bothered me...
[22:03:43] <stpeter> misha: XEP-0116
[22:03:43] <louiz’> no, http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0246.html misha
[22:03:52] <louiz’> oh, 116 ?
[22:03:56] <stpeter> right, it was spread across multiple documents
[22:04:01] <stpeter> 246 references 116
[22:04:05] <louiz’> ok
[22:04:14] <stpeter> 116 was the original
[22:05:05] <stpeter> brb
[22:07:26] <misha> stpeter: what I would be very appreciated - if in History Appendix would be looged changes of the status of the XEP and reasons for it, for example why XEP was moved to Standard track (by XMMP meeting XXX for example), or why it was Defered (no updates/implementations for a year) - i think it's really helpful to track dynamics of XEP
[22:08:03] <louiz’> I agree
[22:13:56] <stpeter> it was always historical
[22:14:19] <stpeter> http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0027.html#appendix-revs describes the revisions
[22:15:13] <stpeter> http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0027.html#security summarizes some of the security issues
[22:15:27] <stpeter> the big one is replay attacks
[22:15:42] <stpeter> the fact that it can't be used for IQ stanzas is a problem, too
[22:15:54] <stpeter> and the fact that you can't sign *and* encrypt is not good
[22:17:04] <stpeter> anyway, the end-to-end encryption problem remains to be solved
[22:17:09] <louiz’> Oh, that are big problems
[22:17:25] <stpeter> and we won't solve it right now in this chatroom :)
[22:17:30] <stpeter> and I need to log off now
[22:17:39] <misha> sure, be well!
[22:17:47] <louiz’> ok, bye :p
[22:18:26] <stpeter> ciao!
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