Logs for jdev

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[02:53:45] <louiz’> I'm confused by the definition of "Moderated Room"
[02:54:06] <louiz’> the XEP 45 tells A room in which only those with "voice" may send messages to all occupants; antonym: Unmoderated Room.
[02:55:10] <louiz’> But, in practice, it seems like server do implement every room as a "Moderated room", but setting "moderated room" to True in the config make new occupants Visitors by default, while they are participant par default in a Non-moderated room.
[02:55:17] <louiz’> servers*
[02:55:47] <louiz’> (wow, seems like it's to late. This sentence is awful…)
[02:55:56] <louiz’> (too*…)
[03:03:17] <MattJ> louiz’, that server behaviour would be wrong then
[03:04:41] <louiz’> isn't that what prosody does?
[03:05:00] <louiz’> The only difference between a moderated and an unmoderated room is that you're participant by default in the Unmoderated one
[03:06:48] <louiz’> (in visitor in the moderated one)
[03:07:04] <louiz’> and it seems like m-link does that too
[03:10:15] <louiz’> The only server that is correct for this, is muconference
[03:10:42] <louiz’> i.e.: in a unmoderated room, you cannot become a visitor
[03:10:58] <MattJ> I'm not sure that's correct
[03:11:18] <MattJ> Moderated/unmoderated only affects who can speak, not who is what role
[03:11:27] <louiz’> ok
[03:11:41] <MattJ> and you're right, Prosody's behaviour seems to be wrong (or rather... the option is mis-labeled)
[03:11:46] <louiz’> so the correct behaviour would be to be able to speak even while being a visitor?
[03:11:52] <louiz’> (in unmoderated rooms)
[03:11:57] <MattJ> Yes
[03:12:03] <louiz’> Ok
[03:12:13] <louiz’> and m-link's behaviour seems wrong too
[03:12:35] <MattJ> What does it do?
[03:13:39] <MattJ> !xep 45
[03:14:50] <MattJ> sigh
[03:15:08] <MattJ> The XEP is wrong :)
[03:15:14] <louiz’> unmoderated room: Visitors cannot talk. You're participant by default.
[03:15:25] <louiz’> moderated room: visitors cannot talk. You're visitor by default
[03:15:29] <louiz’> MattJ, why? :)
[03:15:43] <MattJ> I'm too tired to explain :)
[03:15:46] <louiz’> :)
[03:15:48] <MattJ> I shall post to the MUC ML
[03:15:52] <louiz’> indeed
[03:16:01] <MattJ> stpeter is currently working on fixing the various issues in the XEP
[03:16:09] <louiz’> yes, I know
[03:18:02] <MattJ> This role/aff thing is a nightmare
[03:18:23] <louiz’> yes
[03:18:45] <MattJ> "However, the loss of admin status does not necessarily mean that the occupant is no longer a moderator (since a "mere" participant can be a moderator)."
[03:18:51] <MattJ> This sentence is just mad
[03:19:26] <MattJ> "participant" and "moderator" are different roles, you can't be a participant and a moderator :)
[03:20:00] <louiz’> IMO, a good room configuration would be: Visitors can talk Yes/No (moderated/unmoderated). New occupants are Visitors/Participants by default.
[03:20:19] <louiz’> both options should be configurable
[03:20:21] <MattJ> Agreed, that's the sensible way to do it
[03:20:49] <MattJ> and the way I intend to fix Prosody's config
[03:20:49] <louiz’> (+ the fact that members are always automatically participants)
[03:20:54] <louiz’> great :)
[03:20:54] <MattJ> Sure
[03:21:30] <MattJ> In Prosody "is moderated?" is actually "default role"
[03:21:34] <louiz’> yes
[03:21:44] <louiz’> in m-link too
[03:21:45] <MattJ> which is what the XEP describes, but it should be separate
[03:22:01] <louiz’> I'll check ejabberd's behaviour
[03:22:05] <MattJ> I'll fix it and post to the ML this week
[03:22:11] <louiz’> yay \o
[03:22:17] <MattJ> ejabberd should be better...
[03:22:30] <MattJ> because back when ejabberd powered jabber.org I got very annoyed by all this
[03:22:33] <MattJ> and I filed a bug
[03:22:52] <MattJ> which iirc was fixed
[03:24:40] <louiz’> It's correct, indeed
[03:24:56] <louiz’> you're always participant when joining, but visitor can talk only if the room is unmoderated
[03:25:11] <louiz’> (and rooms are moderated by default, which is fine too.)
[03:25:45] <louiz’> ah, there's an option to change the default from participant to visitors
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[05:33:42] <Yagiza> Hello!
[05:35:53] <Yagiza> Is there any way to determine, that an item (with particular id) is published in the PEP node, without retrieving it's payload?
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[08:53:51] <lvl4f> hi
[08:54:19] <lvl4f> i need help
[08:54:27] <lvl4f> any one here?
[08:54:41] <Yagiza> I'm here
[08:54:50] <Yagiza> But Ineed help too
[08:54:59] <lvl4f> :D good
[08:55:47] <lvl4f> give me ur prob bro , will help u if i can :)
[08:56:10] <Yagiza> Is there any way to determine, that an item (with particular id) is published in the PEP node, without retrieving it's payload?
[08:58:51] <lvl4f> :s sorry i dont know about that
[08:59:40] <lvl4f> but do u know anything about marix mobile ?
[09:00:00] <lvl4f> is that for mobile app dev?
[09:00:00] <Yagiza> Err... marix?
[09:00:10] <lvl4f> not
[09:00:13] <lvl4f> matrix
[09:00:18] <lvl4f> sorry :s
[09:00:51] <Yagiza> Hmmm... Any links?
[09:01:11] <Yagiza> /me never heard 'bout that
[09:01:43] <lvl4f> a want dev app for mobile
[09:01:55] <lvl4f> what's matrix mobile?
[09:02:10] <Yagiza> For which mobile do you want to develop?
[09:02:25] <lvl4f> java platform
[09:02:32] <lvl4f> jar s
[09:02:36] <Yagiza> Ok
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[09:02:56] <himpa> hello
[09:02:59] <Yagiza> I'm developing for it right now
[09:03:06] <himpa> whats up?
[09:03:09] <Yagiza> himpa!
[09:03:23] <lvl4f> hi ~!
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[09:04:05] <lvl4f> ok i want dev xmpp client but how can i connect to server?
[09:04:16] <lvl4f> that hard to do :(
[09:04:44] <Yagiza> Do you plan to develop a proprietry app?
[09:05:23] <lvl4f> yes
[09:05:30] <Yagiza> Well...
[09:05:54] <Yagiza> In that case it would be harder
[09:06:11] <lvl4f> :( wow
[09:06:53] <lvl4f> so...?
[09:06:59] <Yagiza> You should find open sources without "open source virus".
[09:07:37] <Yagiza> I'm using Bombus as a base of my app? but it's GPL
[09:08:15] <lvl4f> yeah
[09:08:24] <Yagiza> So, my app is also distributed under GPL license
[09:08:26] <lvl4f> how make one like bombus?
[09:08:31] <Asterix> but if you copy code from a GPL code, you'll have to leave your code GPL
[09:08:40] <Yagiza> Yes
[09:09:02] <Asterix> so for your propriety app, you cannot copy bombus ...
[09:10:27] <Yagiza> So, if you never find XMPP open source without "open source virus" the only way for you is writing your own code (maybe ookin into Bombus code, but not copying it)
[09:11:10] <Yagiza> /me wonders who need a proprietary XMPP app?
[09:11:24] <lvl4f> my own? :s i cant
[09:12:17] <lvl4f> i need anything like xmpp component / just like that or some thing ...
[09:13:44] <Yagiza> That's not really a problem.
[09:14:09] <Yagiza> Did you searched sourceforge already?
[09:15:26] <lvl4f> no
[09:15:33] <lvl4f> 8-|
[09:15:40] <Yagiza> You'd better try
[09:16:22] <lvl4f> ;-| ok
[09:18:59] <lvl4f> bro !
[09:19:23] <Yagiza> Mmm?
[09:19:43] <lvl4f> availability of MatriX Mobile for the .NET Compact
[09:19:50] <lvl4f> what it this?
[09:19:58] <lvl4f> http://www.ag-software.de/2010/01/04/matrix-mobile-released/
[09:21:35] <lvl4f> 8(
[09:22:30] <Yagiza> I'm notreally sure that it's somehow related to java
[09:22:34] <Yagiza> BTW
[09:22:57] <Yagiza> Do you plan to develop for JavaME or for JavaSE?
[09:23:05] <lvl4f> me
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[09:23:12] <lvl4f> javaME
[09:23:48] <lvl4f> but im not pro...
[09:24:41] <Yagiza> You know, only ordinary phones and Symbian smartphones have J2ME support
[09:25:29] <lvl4f> its not mater
[09:25:42] <Yagiza> Windows Mobile, Google Android and MacOSX are out of scope
[09:25:51] <Yagiza> Ok
[09:26:20] <Yagiza> I don't think that MatriX thing has something to do with J2ME
[09:26:49] <Yagiza> So, try searching sourceforge.net further
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[09:27:14] <lvl4f> j2ME not? what abot SE?
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[09:27:18] <Yagiza> If not succeed, just research Bombus source code
[09:27:49] <lvl4f> how can get source of bombus?
[09:27:53] <Yagiza> I heard Windows Mobile has good Java SE support,but never tried.
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[09:28:43] <Yagiza> MacOS do not support Java atall and it will never be support
[09:29:06] <Yagiza> 'bout android... Never really heard.
[09:29:36] <Yagiza> But J2ME doesn't work for sure
[09:29:59] <lvl4f> i want dev for nokia an sonyericsons phone
[09:30:12] <lvl4f> how can i get bombus source?
[09:30:19] <Yagiza> Yeah
[09:30:32] <Yagiza> In that case J2ME is for you...
[09:30:51] <lvl4f> yeah i know
[09:31:06] <lvl4f> :D tell me about source
[09:31:33] <Yagiza> Please, wait a minute
[09:31:56] <lvl4f> ok B^,
[09:35:43] <Yagiza> Bombus seems to be down right now...
[09:35:57] <Yagiza> Please, try BombusMod instead
[09:36:00] <Yagiza> http://bm2.googlecode.com/svn/trunk
[09:36:28] <lvl4f> ow
[09:36:36] <lvl4f> thnks man
[09:36:42] <Yagiza> No prob
[09:46:12] <lvl4f> bybye :p
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[11:35:18] <Alex> Yagiza: Windows Mobile is pretty much dead because of Windows Phone 7 which has only .NET support
[11:35:47] <Yagiza> Yeah
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[16:41:14] <stpeter> heh, someone emailed me about errors in [XEP-0263]
[16:41:43] <louiz’> /me non-guilty
[16:44:47] <darkrain_> !xep 263
[16:45:02] <darkrain_> What sort of errors?
[16:45:04] <stpeter> hmph
[16:45:34] <stpeter> he said the default icon should be LED, not compact flourescent :)
[16:45:54] <darkrain_> Haha
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[16:53:10] <louiz’> :D
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[17:17:15] <Yagiza> Hello 1ce again!
[17:17:41] <stpeter> heh
[17:17:47] <stpeter> hi Yagiza
[17:18:19] <Yagiza> Do any1 know if it's possible to determine, if an item with particular id is published on the PEP node?
[17:18:41] <stpeter> hmm
[17:18:43] <Yagiza> Without retrieving its payload
[17:18:57] <stpeter> I don't think we have a way to do that
[17:19:16] <Yagiza> Too bad...
[17:19:26] <stpeter> yet another pubsub feature...
[17:19:50] <stpeter> there are two kinds of people in the world: those who think we have way too many pubsub features, and those who think we need even more :)
[17:20:07] <Yagiza> Yeah!
[17:20:36] <Yagiza> At least those, which are obviously natural
[17:20:57] <stpeter> one person's "obviously natural" is another person's "obviously excessive" :)
[17:22:24] <Yagiza> Yes, you're right of course
[17:23:04] <stpeter> not "of course" -- I'm often wrong :)
[17:24:33] <Yagiza> Maybe, but this time you're right, 'cause as Japanese say 十人十色！
[17:25:21] <Yagiza> Or as Russians say "На вкус и цвет товарищей нет!"
[17:26:40] <stpeter> how many languages do you know? :)
[17:27:28] <Yagiza> Actually, only three! (^_^)
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[17:28:19] <stpeter> heh
[17:31:06] <Yagiza> BTW
[17:31:33] <Yagiza> I was thinking 'bout resources of PEP events...
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[17:32:27] <Yagiza> And desided to use "#resource:" prefix for compatibility with software, which do not support this extension
[17:33:13] <Yagiza> If item id starts with "#resource:" prefix, publishing instance resource follows
[17:33:33] <Yagiza> Otherwise, this id means nothing
[17:33:46] <Yagiza> How do you feel about it?
[17:34:24] <stpeter> hmm
[17:34:28] <darkrain_> The Item ID already has a specific defined meaning in at least one PEP specification (XEP 0084, User Avatar)
[17:38:30] <Yagiza> Yes, but with XEP-0084 we don't really need publisher resource
[17:39:09] <Yagiza> The resource is essentioal only for automatically generated events, like Geoloc and Tune
[17:41:31] <Yagiza> 'cause two different instances of the same accounnt could be running simultaneously and post different data automatically
[17:42:48] <Yagiza> In that case you, for exanmple, will see the contact jumping between different locations!
[17:43:36] <Yagiza> Two different contacts in two different locations will look much better, I suppose
[17:45:37] <stpeter> Yagiza: I think perhaps we can't generalize -- it depends on the payload type / use case
[17:45:53] <Yagiza> Yes
[17:46:46] <Yagiza> But we can specify XEPs where it's useful
[17:47:19] <Yagiza> User Location is oe of them, I think
[17:48:17] <Yagiza> So, for those XEPs we can describe it as an optional feature
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