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[00:21:59] <mikalsen> kuk
[00:23:48] <mikalsen> hello
[00:33:40] <mikalsen> kek
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[02:05:20] <Marcos> Hi there
[02:08:42] <Marcos> Anyone here?
[02:10:58] <deryni> I'm here.
[02:14:33] <Marcos> Hi deryni, are you a silverlight developer?
[02:15:00] <deryni> Nope. Don't even have silverlight installed.
[02:16:19] <Marcos> what jabber client are you using now?
[02:17:03] <deryni> pidgin
[02:17:37] <Marcos> is good?
[02:18:30] <deryni> In my biased opinion (I'm a pidgin developer), yes. Though it isn't as featureful as some of the xmpp only clients out there.
[02:19:24] <Marcos> im installing it right now
[02:21:11] <Marcos> As im using a silverlight demo here, i dont know which protocol we are... Whats is the protocol here?
[02:22:04] <deryni> xmpp
[02:22:10] <deryni> What demo are you using?
[02:22:27] <Marcos> a demo from http://www.ag-software.de
[02:25:57] <Marcos> can you help me to connect in pidgin?
[02:27:26] <deryni> Yes. Connect to where?
[02:27:32] <Marcos> to XMPP
[02:27:43] <deryni> That's a protocol not a server.
[02:27:54] <Marcos> i have created an account https://register.jabber.org/
[02:28:34] <Marcos> what server should i use to connect here?
[02:28:38] <deryni> Ok. Then put in your username and password and jabber.org as the domain in pidgin.
[02:29:01] <deryni> This is a chat room hosted on the jabber.org server.
[02:29:12] <deryni> You can join this room from any federated xmpp server.
[02:30:30] <Marcos> now im connect to a server
[02:30:46] <Marcos> can i add you there?
[02:31:02] <deryni> If you'd like. deryni@pidgin.im
[02:31:52] <Marcos> i've add you
[02:33:14] <deryni> It hasn't shown up here. How did you add me?
[02:33:34] <Marcos> try to add me: lommez@jabber.org
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[12:56:35] <1ntellect> how can I have my component connect as something@mydomain.com ?
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[13:39:32] <Alex> 1ntellect: can you plesae elaborate? Normally components connect to a server, so a Jid without the node part
[13:46:05] <1ntellect> Alex: I currently have a simple echo message working for a component. So if the host is foo and the component name is bar, I am using bar.foo to talk to it.
[13:46:59] <Alex> 1ntellect: right
[13:47:11] <1ntellect> Alex: We are trying to make a bot which will need to scale. We want the users to add something like bot@ourdomain.com and talking to it
[13:47:40] <Alex> a bot is just a normal client, not a component
[13:47:55] <1ntellect> right
[13:48:09] <1ntellect> but a normal component won't scale from what I know
[13:48:17] <Alex> when you run your own server then you can give the bot all resources you need
[13:48:35] <Alex> components have more trust then a user
[13:48:39] <1ntellect> I was talking to Kev yesterday on irc and he suggested there are some servers which let you redirect to a domain
[13:49:15] <1ntellect> or something along those lines
[13:49:21] <Alex> on most servers there are limits for users, traffic limits, roster limits etc...
[13:49:48] <Alex> and by default this limits don't apply to components, but when you run your own server then you can adjust the limits and you are fine then
[13:49:56] <Kev> 1ntellect: There's no inherent difference in scalability between a bot and a component. The server has to switch the stanzas for them both.
[13:51:32] <1ntellect> Kev: I am looking at components because of the reasons mentioned in the third sprint mentioned in the book
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[13:52:16] <1ntellect> A normal client won't be able to handle thousands of users adding it right?
[13:52:32] <Kev> The client will.
[13:53:02] <Kev> Some servers won't cope with users that have very large (tens of thousands) of contacts in a roster.
[13:53:22] <1ntellect> so what's the solution?
[13:53:30] <Kev> It depends what the problem is :)
[13:54:34] <Alex> 1ntellect: in both cases you have to run your own server, because you can't connect your component to a public server. So I would suggest to write a bot
[13:54:41] <1ntellect> my requirement is just this. I want users to be adding a global bot. say foo@ourdomain.com and I want to be able to cope up with thousands of users adding it.
[13:54:59] <Alex> 1ntellect: why not?
[13:55:44] <Kev> 1ntellect: The simple thing to do in this case, then, is to add thousands of users to a roster on your server, and see if it copes :)
[13:56:13] <Alex> on your bot you can optimize your code when you use roster versioning and cache the roster
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[13:57:25] <Alex> but it will stay online 24/7 anyway, so the roster is not a big problem. YOu will not log on and off all the time like a regular client does
[13:57:44] <Zash> Or just don't fetch the roster, and just reply to subscription requests
[13:57:51] <1ntellect> I was looking at components because of the third sprint example mentioned in the book and also from what other people have talking about on the web.
[13:58:15] <Alex> Zash: right, or fetch it from teh SQL database directly, there are many solutions
[13:58:49] <Alex> or query the server database directly when you have to
[13:59:05] <1ntellect> also, http://metajack.wordpress.com/2008/08/04/thoughts-on-scalable-xmpp-bots/
[13:59:10] <dwd> 1ntellect, The thing is that some servers are not designed to hold thousands of contacts in a users roster. However, if you want subscriptions and so on, then that roster has to be implemented somewhere.
[13:59:34] <dwd> 1ntellect, So the question is whether you think you can implement a scalable roster better than the server does.
[13:59:53] <Kev> And, as I suggested, there's no point doing that until you find that your server isn't sufficient.
[14:01:05] <1ntellect> what server would you suggest I should use?
[14:03:11] <1ntellect> the bot will be receiving large amounts of messages which we will store and will also be sending out large amount of messages to the various users
[14:03:19] <Zash> Premature scalability?
[14:04:23] <1ntellect> Zash: I don't want to scale prematurely, but I am new to xmpp, so just need a direction on which is the best way to go with right now
[14:13:12] <1ntellect> Should I be looking at ejabberd or openfire? What are the factors I should look at when deciding on the server. Are there any other servers worth looking into?
[14:14:41] <Zash> I'd recomend you look at Prosody
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[14:15:40] <1ntellect> Zash: alright. I never checked that one out.
[14:16:03] <dwd> 1ntellect, If this is a commercial venture, I'd suggest looking at M-Link too.
[14:16:12] <1ntellect> I am guessing I won't have to modify any server code for my needs
[14:16:42] <1ntellect> just use a client library and connect to the server
[14:16:56] <1ntellect> dwd: thanks, I will check it out
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[14:19:58] <1ntellect> Zash: am I right?
[14:20:38] <Zash> 1ntellect: I think so
[14:21:55] <1ntellect> ok. great. Thanks a lot guys. I need to head home now. I will be back with more questions :)
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[17:55:44] <stpeter> sorry about the XEP Editor spam on standards@ :)
[17:56:44] <stpeter> brb
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[18:15:43] <Tobias> hey...that's what "Mark All as Read" buttons are for...
[18:15:58] <stpeter> :)
[18:16:31] <stpeter> next I'm going to review some old threads about XEP-0198 and write a summary email about it
[18:24:17] <stpeter> /me pings Kev
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[18:57:07] <evilotto> ugh ... I hate the unreliability of transports on remote servers
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[19:17:11] <stpeter> evilotto: indeed, which is why I don't use them
[19:17:25] <stpeter> well, that and I don't know anyone on those other systems :)
[19:19:08] <evilotto> the trouble is that I have a xmpp client I like but it's not a multi-protocol client.
[19:20:11] <evilotto> and cranky old people like me hate changing things like the client they use
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[19:24:13] <Zash> and getting people to switch to xmpp isn't the easiest thing ever :(
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[19:54:35] <dwd> Zash, I wonder if there's something we can do (as a group) to help that.
[19:55:09] <dwd> Zash, Maybe a "Help your friends discover XMPP", or a concentrated effort to find "good things" to entice people over.
[19:56:25] <evilotto> where's the advocacy webpage?
[19:57:29] <stpeter> there isn't one :)
[19:57:51] <stpeter> it's made easier if we say "Jabber" I suppose -- that might even be politically correct now!
[19:58:19] <Zash> :D
[19:58:26] <bear> enough time has passed to let use start using it now?
[19:58:36] <stpeter> perhaps
[19:58:44] <stpeter> I mean, there's no jabber.com or Jabber Inc. anymore
[19:58:44] <bear> evilotto - there is this page: http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Quickstart
[19:59:03] <bear> it's been absorbed by cisco fully now?
[20:00:55] <stpeter> oh yes
[20:01:13] <bear> who owns jabber.com - can we point it to xmpp.com now?
[20:01:36] <stpeter> I'm sure it redirects to cisco.com
[20:01:37] <Zash> Cisco?
[20:01:42] <bear> ahh
[20:01:47] <louiz’> it does
[20:01:50] <stpeter> it redirects to http://www.cisco.com/web/about/ac49/ac0/ac1/ac258/JabberInc.html
[20:03:24] <dwd> FWIW, the only people I've seen tying "Jabber" to "Cisco" heavily are actually Microsoft, who refer to their XMPP gateway for OCS in terms of "Cisco's Jabber protocol" in quite a bit of marketing.
[20:04:24] <Zash> Maybe Cisco could be poked into releasing it?
[20:04:51] <stpeter> Zash: into releasing what?
[20:05:09] <dwd> stpeter, jabber.com, presumably.
[20:05:44] <dwd> I'm not wholly convinced of the benefit, but it really depends on the traffic levels it gets (and I'm not sure how to find that out, without simply asking Cisco).
[20:05:51] <Zash> stpeter: I was thinking trademarks
[20:06:10] <stpeter> Zash: ah, I can see you think I'm not busy enough as it is :)
[20:06:20] <Zash> stpeter: ;)
[20:07:27] <stpeter> dwd: I posted to standards@ about XEP-0198 -- your patch looks fine to me
[20:07:55] <dwd> I saw the mail. I think we can probably improve it, in the light of trying XEP-0198 with real servers.
[20:08:02] <stpeter> ok good
[20:08:28] <stpeter> feel free to send an updated patch or post more generally to the list
[20:08:46] <stpeter> we still need to figure out number-of-stanzas vs. time-based acking
[20:09:24] <dwd> stpeter, Well, that patch stands, it's just we can make further improvements.
[20:09:31] <stpeter> ah ok
[20:12:18] <bear> oh, unrelated but dwd is here - my JID was flapping wildly because of a new SIP android client I was testing - i've removed it and i'm back to a "quieter" JID again
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[20:13:22] <dwd> bear, What's the relevance to me, sorry?
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[20:13:53] <bear> oh - wasn't it you that poked me about it?... or have I already gone senile and just am blithely ignorant of it?
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[20:14:17] <bear> /me shuts up and goes back to work
[20:14:21] <dwd> Oh, I may have done, but I don't remember. :-)
[20:14:28] <bear> :)
[20:14:39] <stpeter> heading AFK for a little while, bbiab
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[20:20:30] <evilotto> the 'quickstart' page isn't really advocacy - it tells you how to use xmpp, not why you should be using it.
[20:25:24] <bear> wasn't suggesting it was (or did not mean to) just a page I found that I thought was close
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[20:28:56] <evilotto> if I had infinite free time (or even finite free time in a measurably larger amount than I currently do) I'd try to help create such a page ... unfortunately I think I'd quickly fall behind and not be much help. (same as all my other good intentions...)
[20:30:22] <stpeter> it's perhaps surprising how successful we've been, given how little advocacy we've done
[20:36:18] <Tobias> is there any other SASL mechanism than SCRAM that makes use of channel binding?
[20:37:06] <dwd> Tobias, Not that I know of. But I think every GS2 mechanism is intended to use it.
[20:37:15] <Tobias> k
[20:37:34] <dwd> Tobias, Which in turn covers all GSSAPI mechanisms. Perhaps only new ones, I'm honestly not clear.
[20:39:10] <Tobias> k
[20:39:23] <Tobias> though i'm not writing a GS2 lib
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[21:55:21] <lommez> Hi.. anyone here use OpenFire server?
[21:57:20] <darkrain_> I used to.
[21:58:25] <stpeter> I consider it close to abandonware, but others disagree
[21:59:08] <lommez> darkrain, maybe you could help me
[21:59:28] <lommez> im having problem to setup the bosh
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[22:00:09] <lommez> But when I try to open that url: http://myserver:7070/http-bind/ I receive that message: HTTP ERROR: 400 BAD_REQUEST RequestURI=/http-bind/ Powered by Jetty://
[22:00:23] <lommez> do you know what can be?
[22:00:49] <darkrain_> Try to load with a web browser?
[22:01:35] <dwd> lommez, BOSH operates off POST requests - you can't really do it with a browser direct to the BOSH URI.
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[22:01:46] <dwd> lommez, For a start, it'll be the wrong request method.
[22:02:06] <darkrain_> Yep
[22:02:17] <lommez> yes, tried on a web browser
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[22:20:54] <Alex> I think this error is normal in opefire when you access the page in a browser with GET
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