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[07:27:14] <mcepl> Are there standalone Jabber clients for Mac and Windows which would reliably support VV out of the box in the standard installation (i.e., no recompilation required)? With commercial support would be even better. (GTalk doesn't need to apply, I need standalone clients)
[07:27:45] <mcepl> (commercial support is advantage)
[07:30:32] <Kev> mcepl: Psi should support VV out of the box on Mac. I thought it did on Windows too.
[07:30:53] <Kev> Oh, no.
[07:30:58] <Kev> Sorry, being stupid. Voice only.
[07:31:20] <mcepl> hmm
[07:31:40] <mcepl> Does anybody knows about Cisco Unified Personal Communicator? Does it support VV?
[07:32:56] <mcepl> (meaning XMPP VV of course, interoperable with other XMPP VV clients)
[07:33:18] <Kev> I'd love to get VV working in Swift, but that's not an immediate possibility.
[07:34:09] <mcepl> well, no, I need something now,
[07:34:13] <Kev> Right.
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[08:10:36] <mcepl> (and of course, it doesn't have to be the same client on Windows and Mac, just need to support both platforms)
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[17:11:56] <kzwin> have questions on xmpp server setup: if i have 2 servers x and y for a single domain and user 1@domain connects to x and 2@domain connects to y, is the message sent from user 1 to 2 supposed to be delivered automatically? jabberd2 is what i am using
[17:12:31] <Kev> I have no idea about jabberd2 clustering, or if it even supports it.
[17:13:23] <kzwin> clustering is not part of a typical xmpp server?
[17:13:27] <Kev> In general, running two servers for the same domain isn't going to work unless the server supports, and you have configured, clustering.
[17:13:38] <Kev> Well, the server I run is clustered, and I know of others that support it.
[17:13:52] <kzwin> which server?
[17:13:57] <Kev> I run M-Link.
[17:14:23] <Kev> (I also work on M-Link)
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[17:16:18] <Kev> Note that I don't know that jabberd2 doesn't support it - jabberd2's probably the only mainstream free server that I've never run.
[17:16:34] <johnny> it probably doesn't..
[17:17:31] <Zash> Wasn't xmpp servers split into a whole bunch of specialised services back then?
[17:17:33] <deryni> It supports c2s clustering I think.
[17:17:45] <deryni> But only one router/sm/something backend.
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[20:35:31] <louiz’> hum
[20:35:37] <louiz’> about MUC roles and affiliations
[20:36:01] <louiz’> in 5.2.1, affiliation privileges, a line is "Edit Moderator List"
[20:36:08] <louiz’> but there is NO Moderator List
[20:36:16] <louiz’> since moderator is a role, not an affiliation
[20:36:33] <louiz’> so it doesn't persist after an exit of the room
[20:36:36] <Kev> I imagine it's a typo, and it should be admin or such.
[20:36:41] <Kev> (Without checking)
[20:36:51] <louiz’> but admin and owner are below :p
[20:37:03] <louiz’> there's a line for admin, owner AND moderator
[20:37:12] <stpeter> hats!
[20:37:13] <louiz’> but the line for moderator should not exist
[20:37:26] <louiz’> hats?
[20:37:36] <louiz’> http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#affil-priv
[20:37:43] <stpeter> louiz’: possible replacement for roles and affiliations
[20:37:43] <Kev> An alternative proposal for doing MUC roles/affiliations.
[20:38:12] <louiz’> where is this defined?
[20:38:17] <Kev> It isn't.
[20:38:24] <louiz’> hu, ok
[20:38:28] <louiz’> so it's confusing :/
[20:38:29] <stpeter> /me notes that he has a big pile of XEP-0045 edits sitting on his desk at the office from his flight to Brussels back in February but hasn't entered them into his computer yet
[20:38:40] <Kev> It was discussed at fosdem and never came to anything.
[20:39:06] <stpeter> Kev: hats are still on my to-do list, but those blasted bis drafts intervened for a while there...
[20:39:08] <louiz’> What is the interest of this "alternative" roles/affiliations management?
[20:39:23] <stpeter> louiz’: ability to define custom roles
[20:39:34] <Kev> stpeter: If the people proposing them aren't interested enough to write a protoXEP...
[20:39:34] <stpeter> louiz’: e.g., things like "scribe" or "presented" or whatever
[20:39:47] <stpeter> s/presented/presenter/
[20:40:04] <louiz’> What would "scribe"'s or "presented"'s roles?
[20:40:12] <louiz’> +be
[20:40:16] <Kev> Roles that are nominal only.
[20:40:17] <stpeter> Kev: indeed -- although I'm interested for reasons connected to my day job, simply haven't had time yet
[20:40:34] <stpeter> louiz’: those would be defined as bundles of privileges
[20:40:44] <louiz’> ok…
[20:41:12] <Zash> s/\bthatt\b/that/ [xep 192]
[20:41:13] <Kanchil> Zash: XEP-0192: Proposed Stream Feature Improvements is Standards Track (Draft, 2007-01-17) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0192.html
[20:42:31] <stpeter> louiz’: there's not much cause for speculating about "hats" until we have a spec for them -- maybe by the end of the year...
[20:43:26] <louiz’> ok, but then this "moderator list" should not be mentioned yet
[20:43:59] <johnny> stpeter, i'd like to see how my use case fits in there
[20:44:12] <stpeter> louiz’: well, there are two points here....
[20:44:16] <johnny> mostly related to running meetings (as scribe indicates)
[20:44:31] <stpeter> (1) roles can persist (although earlier versions of XEP-0045 said they don't)
[20:44:46] <johnny> we also use some signals to request meeting interuption, like a triangle is a process point
[20:44:52] <stpeter> (2) s/Edit Moderator List/Assign and Remove Moderator Role/
[20:44:59] <johnny> and direct responses (factual points of information)
[20:45:18] <johnny> so anybody in the meeting can recognize tho
[20:45:53] <louiz’> stpeter, yes, this should be replaceed by "Assign and Remove moderator Role"
[20:46:00] <louiz’> -e
[20:46:04] <stpeter> louiz’: duly noted
[20:46:09] <louiz’> :)
[20:48:55] <stpeter> :)
[20:50:14] <louiz’> my first contribution to XMPP \o/
[20:50:38] <stpeter> heh
[20:50:41] <stpeter> thanks!
[20:50:45] <stpeter> we do appreciate it
[20:50:58] <louiz’> heh you're welcome. I was just being proud of me :p
[20:54:06] <stpeter> fix made in my working copy
[20:54:19] <stpeter> maybe one of these weeks I'll find time to key in all the edits I marked on paper :)
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[21:21:09] <stpeter> speaking of edits, I'm entering some changes into XEP-0178 before I forget...
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[21:47:51] <mcepl> Are there standalone Jabber clients for Mac and Windows which would reliably support VV out of the box in the standard installation (i.e., no recompilation required)? With commercial support would be even better. (GTalk doesn't need to apply, I need standalone clients; commercial support is an advantage). Any information abot Cisco Unified Personal Communicator? Does it support XEP-Jingle?
[21:48:27] <mcepl> (and of course, it doesn't have to be the same client on Windows and Mac, just need to support both platforms)
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[21:58:16] <Zash> Is there even any client which does jingle on windows?
[21:59:38] <mcepl> kev_ was saying something about psi (but that's audio only)
[21:59:41] <mcepl> miranda?
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[22:02:21] <Zash> Farsight on windows yet?
[22:03:01] <mcepl> http://developer.pidgin.im/ticket/11075 claims there is such thing
[22:03:56] <mcepl> http://eion.robbmob.com/blog/2009/08/14/pidgin-with-video-on-windows/ seems to indicate that it is actually more matter of debugging than anything else.
[22:04:44] <Zash> And since Gajim uses the same framework ..
[22:06:01] <Zash> Asterix: Any progress with the py2exe replacement yet?
[22:07:58] <mcepl> asterix__: ^^^^
[22:14:23] <deryni> Yeah, vv on Windows with pidgin is supposed work. Last I knew it was a matter of getting good builds and actually testing it. I don't know about OS X.
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