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[08:32:52] <scippio> helo.... when is priority lower, it recieved msg then higher priority? (sry for english)
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[08:44:29] <Kev> scippio: When delivering a message to a bare JID, the higher priority resource will (probably) receive it.
[08:44:46] <Kev> It could be that all resources receive it.
[08:44:57] <scippio> hm
[08:46:08] <scippio> Kev: because I have gajim and hwne I set (priority by status) then: - available = priority set to 50 - away = priority set to 40 - unavaliable = priority set to 30
[08:47:28] <scippio> then... when I have two clients... unavaliable (30) and available (50) ... the message shoud be delivered to avaliable (50)?
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[09:20:16] <Guus> Hey guys. I'm noticing that, when I connect to Facebook over its XMPP interface, availability of my client isn't "timely" propagated to my contacts.
[09:20:39] <Guus> Is this a known problem, or should I massage the presence updates that I sent in some particular way?
[09:22:27] <Zash> I'd blame it on fb
[09:23:19] <Guus> I'm about to, but I'd like to cover my bases :)
[09:24:59] <louiz’> "timely"?
[09:25:29] <Guus> within 30 seconds
[09:26:24] <Guus> presence gets synced almost instantly whenever two contacts start chatting though
[09:29:39] <Zash> "optimization"
[09:30:32] <Guus> that's what I figured
[09:30:57] <Guus> I wonder what happens if the XMPP client sends some unsupported extension in an otherwise empty Message stanza...
[09:31:43] <Guus> (ah, no, it's the other way around that's failing. Facebook-client connected contacts don't see our presence)
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[13:12:50] <dwd> So, looks like we're not getting a Council or a Board at the XSF this time around.
[13:14:02] <Zash> Oh noes?
[13:15:24] <dwd> Well, nobody's standing.
[13:16:10] <dwd> Okay, not *nobody*, but certainly not enough. 3 for Council, 2 for Board.
[13:16:55] <Kev> dwd: Not an ideal number. For Council at least, though, three is enough to satisfy the Bylaws.
[13:17:14] <Kev> And I'm under the impression we've got at least three more people intending standing for Council than have stood yet.
[13:17:51] <dwd> Kev, I was hoping for more of the existing Council to reapply, indeed.
[13:18:01] <Kev> I believe all bar one are intending to do so.
[13:18:37] <dwd> Kev, Right, I knew of one explicitly not intending to stand.
[13:21:11] <Alex> we need 3/5 at least
[13:21:54] <Alex> the council was very popular in previous years
[13:22:08] <dwd> Alex, Well, last year, anyway. Year before there was no contest.
[13:22:13] <dwd> Alex, It's how I got in. :-)
[13:25:40] <Alex> :D
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[13:38:32] <dwd> Although obviously what I'm working on at Isode is highly confidential, does anyone happen to know of a client which supports XEP-0191?
[13:40:15] <dwd> Kanchil, You know, you could pick up XEP-0191 just as well as [xep 191].
[13:40:16] <Kanchil> dwd: XEP-0191: Simple Communications Blocking is Standards Track (Draft, 2007-02-15) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0191.html
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[13:44:23] <Zash> +1, [slap MattJ]
[13:44:24] <Kanchil> /me slaps MattJ with large trout
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[13:51:45] <seth> hi all
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[13:55:51] <MattJ> dwd, possibly Telepathy? I don't think I found anyone to test the Prosody module I wrote so far...
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[14:01:03] <dwd> MattJ, Apparently no truth to the rumour.
[14:01:11] <MattJ> :(
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[15:10:46] <deryni> pidgin does, at least to some extent.
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[15:17:57] <dwd> deryni, Oh, really? To what extent?
[15:18:30] <Kev> Psi does, to some extent.
[15:18:32] <dwd> deryni, And also, in what version?
[15:18:38] <Kev> It has an XML console you can send stanzas with :)
[15:19:04] <dwd> Kev, Rearrange these words to find a well known phrase or saying: "Off, Piss"
[15:19:38] <Kev> Offs SIP!
[15:25:06] <deryni> dwd: According to the changelog since 2.5.4 (though the initial support was limited) it looks like (from a quick read) pidgin may support it all. I think all that was originally missing was handling pushed updates.
[15:32:23] <dwd> /me was very confused to see "Server doesn't support blocking", until I remembered I'm not advertising it yet. Whoops.
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[19:20:39] <dwd> MattJ, So, 191... How would you feel about extending 191 to include 237-like optimzation?
[19:21:10] <Tobias> !xep 191, 237
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[19:21:11] <Kanchil> Tobias: Sorry, I couldn't find a match
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[19:21:33] <MattJ> Hmm
[19:21:33] <dwd> !xep 191
[19:21:34] <Kanchil> dwd: XEP-0191: Simple Communications Blocking is Standards Track (Draft, 2007-02-15) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0191.html
[19:21:36] <dwd> !xep 237
[19:21:36] <Kanchil> dwd: XEP-0237: Roster Versioning is Standards Track (Draft, 2009-05-27) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0237.html
[19:21:43] <MattJ> I forget
[19:21:54] <MattJ> There was either something I wanted to add to 191
[19:22:01] <dwd> MattJ, I only ask because I have to do it anyway - our clustering sync needs something.
[19:22:08] <MattJ> or something I wanted to add 237-like optimisation to
[19:23:14] <MattJ> Possibly both
[19:23:19] <MattJ> But is it really necessary?
[19:30:25] <dwd> Just seems silly to redownload the entire blocklist on every connect.
[19:30:55] <Kev> Your blocklist is your inverse roster.
[19:31:07] <Kev> It seems sensible to apply the same type of versioning.
[19:31:37] <dwd> MattJ, I mean, put it another way, why *not*?
[19:31:51] <dwd> MattJ, After all, syntactic conformance to 237 is trivial.
[19:32:41] <MattJ> dwd, complexity
[19:33:06] <dwd> MattJ, As I say, 237 complexity is vanishingly low, if you want it to be.
[19:33:42] <dwd> MattJ, If asked for a delta, ignore it and send the full thing. Otherwise, send the full thing.
[19:35:06] <MattJ> Ah well, one issue I have with the XEP is - why should a client request the blocklist every session?
[19:35:26] <MattJ> Why not just when it needs to know what the blocklist is? (the user wants to configure it for example)
[19:35:41] <Kev> A very reasonable question.
[19:36:17] <deryni> Potential perceived UI latency?
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[19:36:41] <Kev> Even discoing cjo in Swift is pretty fast.
[19:37:07] <Kev> Granted that's on a home link, not mobile, but...
[19:37:10] <dwd> MattJ, Because it needs to declare interest.
[19:37:36] <Kev> Why?
[19:37:41] <MattJ> What Kev said
[19:37:41] <dwd> Kev, Well, you've got a 2.5 second cost to raise the radio.
[19:37:47] <deryni> I was thinking more along the lines of when you block someone. You don't necessarily want to have to get the list first then set the block then inform the user of it.
[19:37:51] <MattJ> dwd, I'm not on the radio ;)
[19:38:16] <deryni> But I realize that's likely a weak-at-best concern.
[19:38:18] <MattJ> dwd, of course a client /could/ request the blocklist every session
[19:38:31] <dwd> MattJ, Because "my blocklist has [been] changed" is a lot more likely to be interesting.
[19:38:33] <MattJ> but I don't see why it should do that, ordinarily
[19:38:57] <dwd> MattJ, And you only get "your blocklist has [been] changed" if you've requested the blocklist.
[19:39:10] <MattJ> Sure, I know
[19:39:16] <MattJ> But why do you want to know that? :)
[19:39:46] <dwd> MattJ, You wouldn't want to know your blocklist was been changed?
[19:39:55] <MattJ> Not normally, no
[19:40:07] <MattJ> It was probably changed by me anyway
[19:40:12] <MattJ> I'm sure I know I changed it
[19:40:14] <dwd> You hope. :-)
[19:40:38] <MattJ> I don't get a notification when my vcard is changed
[19:40:43] <MattJ> or private XML
[19:40:48] <MattJ> or a number of other things
[19:40:53] <MattJ> I don't see why blocklists are special
[19:40:57] <Kev> All of which are good things to get notifications for.
[19:41:11] <Kev> I think blocklists are special in that they're the only one you *don't* want notifications for :)
[19:41:14] <MattJ> :)
[19:41:15] <dwd> No, I'd have thought that a blocklist aware client would want to maintain a local blocklist so it could offer UI conveniences to users.
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[19:41:42] <Kev> It is low-cost, so it's not unreasonable to do.
[19:41:50] <MattJ> dwd, well if it wants to do that, it can... but there are plenty of things we don't have versioning for that I'd add it to before 191
[19:41:54] <dwd> For instance, a client could paint MUC users a different colour if they were on the blocklist.
[19:42:10] <dwd> MattJ, Why not add it to 191, though? DO we have to do things in a certain order?
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[19:42:58] <MattJ> Given that this is an optional feature that no-one has to support I wouldn't object to it being in the XEP if you really really want it in there
[19:43:15] <MattJ> But I wouldn't say it's something I'd push for myself
[19:43:27] <MattJ> brb
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[19:59:57] <Zash> IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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[20:03:20] <dwd> So, amusing SIMPLE thing of the day.
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[20:03:53] <dwd> Some people may recall they used to have a draft called draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis.
[20:04:14] <dwd> ... which PSA redid with XMPP, and demostrated that XMPP scaled way better than SIMPLE.
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[20:04:41] <dwd> The SIMPLE WG has now dropped it.
[20:04:54] <dwd> So, arguably, SIMPLE has now given up on interdomain scaling. :-)
[20:05:47] <Tobias> dwd: so on a scale of 9 to 10, how amusing do you find that? :)
[20:06:28] <dwd> Tobias, Well, it depends how you measure it.
[20:06:46] <Tobias> with a amusement-o-meter of course :)
[20:07:00] <Florob> 9.0
[20:07:10] <Florob> or is that a integer scale?
[20:08:39] <Florob> which reminds me...
[20:08:50] <Florob> Tobias, you did the XEP as PDF work, didn't you?
[20:08:56] <Tobias> yeah
[20:09:48] <Florob> I have 2 patches for the xsl. One I needed to make my xetex happy and the other to make tables look nicer
[20:10:40] <Tobias> got a PDF that shows that beauty difference?
[20:12:06] <Florob> Tobias, http://babelmonkeys.de/~florob/xep-0045.pdf
[20:13:40] <Florob> The one on page 15 was hard to bear before for example
[20:13:40] <Tobias> on what page is a table difference?
[20:13:45] <Tobias> ah..ok
[20:16:40] <Tobias> i don't see there much of a difference, besides less hyphenation in the table
[20:17:27] <Florob> yes, that is what I meant. I found the hyphenated one particularly hard to read (YMMV of course)
[20:17:59] <Tobias> i don't care :)
[20:18:38] <Tobias> but i'm happy to apply the patches if they don't interfere with the PDF building on the XSF machine
[20:19:54] <Florob> Well, the other one is basically: s/<cmd name="linewidth" />/<TeXML escape="0">\linewidth</TeXML>/ My xetex install somehow didn't like \linewidth{} at all...
[20:21:20] <Tobias> k
[20:22:26] <Florob> http://babelmonkeys.de/~florob/table.diff
[20:23:17] <Tobias> Florob: k..will apply that later if i don't forget..thanks :)
[20:23:57] <Florob> your welcome
[20:25:11] <MattJ> *cough*
[20:25:46] <Tobias> what's that supposed to mean? beside you becoming ill
[20:25:54] <MattJ> Never mind, I thought this was the Prosody room, I shan't pick on grammar issues here :)
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[20:26:39] <Florob> oh. right
[20:27:26] <Florob> sleepiness for some reason is "English -10"
[20:27:54] <MattJ> Its ok :)
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[01:49:46] <SJrX> Is there a XEP for a more MSN like groupchat?
[01:50:10] <SJrX> Or server-less groupchat, where you simply broad cast messages to eachother (like message requests that have multiple to fields)
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