Logs for jdev

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[08:54:00] <louiz’> "Error joining chat room. You are banned from the room. " On http://xmpp.org/participate/discuss-xmpp/ we have a link to a speeqe trying to join this room. But it seems like speeqe users are banned. The link should be remove, or the speeqe users unbanned.
[08:57:24] <petermount> just tried it myself, jdev banned, operators ok, jabber ok
[08:59:06] <louiz’> yes, I was talking only about this room
[09:02:21] <petermount> need someone with the right permissions to be around to fix it - it's been pretty quiet in here recently :-(
[09:03:25] <louiz’> http://xmpp.org/participate/contact-us/ also the link in "Finally you can join in the many XMPP Discussions occurring on the mailing lists." is wrong. Should be http://xmpp.org/participate/discuss-xmpp/ instead of http://xmpp.org/participate/contact-us/?/participate/discuss-xmpp/
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[10:16:42] <dwd> Why's speeqe banned from here?
[10:17:41] <Kev> Sounds like the sort of thing I'd do if we were having trouble through it.
[10:17:50] <Kev> I don't remember doing so, though.
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[10:19:33] <Alex> my webchat is not banned yet ;-)
[10:19:40] <Alex> uses also anonymous users
[10:20:58] <Kev> I'll ban that one when we start getting problems with it, I expect :)
[10:21:48] <Kev> I do vaguely remember the room getting spammed by clueless people on speeqe, and a brief discussion that (unlikely jabber@), anyone wanting to chat in here probably already has an XMPP account they can log into, so speeqe wasn't needed.
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[10:28:59] <louiz’> Kev, in this case, the link on the webpage is confusing
[10:29:11] <Kev> I don't disagree.
[10:29:56] <Kev> Can you send a mail to the commteam about it, please?
[10:30:36] <louiz’> I'll do my best :)
[10:31:19] <Kev> Ta.
[10:37:41] <louiz’> done
[10:37:50] <louiz’> what does "Ta" mean?
[10:38:03] <Kev> Thanks.
[10:38:09] <louiz’> oh ok
[10:41:30] <louiz’> also mailed about the other issue
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[14:47:17] <dwd> From Mikaël Rémond on Twitter - “We are slowly building our subset (or superset) of #xmpp with simplicity and efficient in mind. Motto: "XMPP that just works" ” - are there any details of this anywhere?
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[14:53:12] <Tobias> dwd: muahahahaha
[14:54:01] <Zash> Bah, worksforme!
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[14:57:42] <dwd> Tobias, No, I'm not joking. The quote is genuine, and I'm wondering what P1's direction is here.
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[14:58:15] <Tobias> it's still funny for me even without you joking around :)
[15:01:44] <louiz’> who is Mikaël Rémond ?
[15:02:08] * Pinky joined the chat.
[15:02:14] <Pinky> hi all
[15:02:32] <Pinky> Jabbim for Android is released with GPL3 license
[15:02:33] <Lance Stout> louiz': The CEO of Process-One, makers of ejabberd
[15:03:06] <Pinky> if you have any blog or i don't know, please, support us, thanks
[15:03:07] <Pinky> http://dev.jabbim.cz/ajabbim/
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[15:03:27] <louiz’> Lance Stout, ok
[15:03:31] <Pinky> we have any 500 Euro bounty for new developers
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[15:05:50] <Kev> Pinky: is it available in English too?
[15:06:07] <Kev> (I see the screenshots are Czech (or I guess they are))
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[15:06:58] <louiz’> Pinky, that's great. I'll tell the news to people I know who use Android
[15:07:12] <Pinky> Kev: yes, only English and Czech locales now
[15:07:22] <Kev> Then I'll tell people who ask about Android clients :)
[15:07:42] <Pinky> Kev: yes, we need firstly developers :-D
[15:07:51] <louiz’> oh, too bad it doesn't have MUC support for now :(
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[15:08:01] <bjc> kev: i'm getting connection refused to athena.jabber.org on 22
[15:08:09] <Pinky> louiz’: yes :-(
[15:08:09] <Kev> bjc: You would, athena doesn't listen on 22.
[15:08:17] <Pinky> louiz’: in TODO :-(
[15:08:25] <bjc> huh. i swear i fetched from there the other day
[15:08:29] <Kev> I keep getting tempted to port Swift to Android, but it's a bit too much work for me.
[15:08:48] <Pinky> Kev: we use android smack library
[15:09:00] <Zash> Kev: wouldn't you need to convert it to java :/
[15:09:04] <Kev> bjc: 22's been deprecated on Athena for a long time, but I only turned it off recently.
[15:09:06] <Kev> Zash: No.
[15:09:33] <Kev> Zash: The UI layer has to be Java, but all the logic can remain (completely untouched) in C++.
[15:09:35] <Tobias> Kev: know any sleek android hardware by a company which's committed in providing firmware updates for future android releases?
[15:09:51] <Pinky> Kev: but maybe it's cool idea use C/C++ library, for speed
[15:10:18] <Pinky> Tobias: buy Nexus One
[15:10:30] <Kev> Tobias: The only company committed to firmware releases is Google, afaik (which means the Nexus One).
[15:10:48] <Tobias> but it isn't sold anymore
[15:10:53] <Tobias> by google i mean
[15:11:06] <Kev> Is it not? I'd not realised.
[15:11:09] <Pinky> Tobias: no, it's now oficial dev phone and it's available
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[15:12:33] <Tobias> what a fail..you have to actually pay 25$ only to see the prices of their dev phones? :)
[15:12:53] <Pinky> Tobias: yes :-D
[15:13:33] <Tobias> then i don't think i need a new phone right *now* :P
[15:13:52] <Kev> FWIW, friends with the HTC Desire are very happy with it.
[15:13:58] <Pinky> Tobias: 529$ :-(
[15:14:06] <Kev> Pinky: USD?
[15:14:11] <Pinky> Kev: yes
[15:14:14] <Kev> Could be worse.
[15:14:19] <Zash> Nerd friends with N900 are happy about it
[15:14:26] <Pinky> Kev: i have desire and Sef have Samsung Galaxy S
[15:14:46] <Kev> Zash: Nokia lent us N900s at Fosdem. My biggest complaint with it is that they took it back off me.
[15:14:51] <Kev> Despite some amount of begging.
[15:15:01] <Kev> I'm *very* interested to see what the N9's like.
[15:15:03] <Zash> those bastards!
[15:15:10] <Zash> ;)
[15:15:16] <Kev> Yes.
[15:15:37] <Kev> Spent the weekend getting Swift running on it, then couldn't keep the phone to release it :(
[15:16:19] <Kev> I was ready to give up my iPhone and use the N900 at Fosdem.
[15:16:51] <Tobias> Kev: swift should work easy on their new symbian stuff right? i mean they highly advertise Qt for its development
[15:17:19] <Kev> Tobias: I got Cath a Symbian phone in the hope of porting Swift to it, but I don't even know where to start with the bizzarre build systems.
[15:17:57] <Kev> But yes, it *should* just work if I can get it to compile.
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[15:24:41] <dwd> Yes, Symbian development toolchain is non-trivial.
[15:25:39] <Pinky> ideal is Apple model
[15:26:02] <Pinky> you need Apple HW, if you need develop app for iPhone...
[15:26:24] <Kev> Well, that's certainly ideal for Apple.
[15:26:25] <Tobias> Pinky: it works but i wouldn't call it ideal
[15:26:30] <bjc> you can do most things in the emulator, but yeah, at some point you're going to need the phone
[15:26:47] <Kev> bjc: Where did you get the hardware you're running the emulator on?
[15:26:51] <Pinky> Tobias: now, i don't need apple hw
[15:26:58] <bjc> kev: it's in the toolchain
[15:27:06] <Kev> bjc: On what hardware?
[15:27:16] <bjc> oh, right. sorry, i misunderstood =)
[15:27:28] <Pinky> bjc: you need apple computer for developing, it's crazy
[15:27:50] <Tobias> Kev: i'm sure some people got the emulator working on a hackintosh ;)
[15:28:04] <Kev> Sure.
[15:28:19] <Kev> On the other hand, their development stuff /does/ work very well.
[15:29:27] <Tobias> yeah..but i think it's still not possible with latest SDK to develop a in background running IM client that doesn't use their push notifications, right?
[15:29:54] <Kev> That's a consequence of their platform, rather than the dev environment, though.
[15:29:59] <Kev> They don't support multitasking.
[15:30:42] <Tobias> yup
[15:31:08] <bjc> somehow bria manages to stay up in the background with a udp sip connection. i didn't think that was supposed to be possible
[15:31:30] <dwd> bjc, What actually changes for existing implementations of collections?
[15:31:46] <bjc> nothing except renaming a pubsub feature
[15:31:57] <dwd> Kev, No, they do support multitasking. Just not for apps *you* are allowed to write.
[15:32:08] <dwd> bjc, In that case, I will let you live.
[15:32:31] <bjc> i have to maintain the ejabberd one. i wasn't going to do a lot of stuff to change it =)
[15:32:32] <Kev> bjc: SIP is VOIP, though, which is an allowed use of background tasks.
[15:32:34] <Tobias> dwd: not for apps you're allowed to write?
[15:32:46] <bjc> kev: from what i gathered it was the "skype model" which is tcp-based
[15:32:57] <bjc> no other iphone sip client can stay up over udp
[15:32:59] <Kev> Tobias: Apple apps get full multitasking.
[15:33:01] <dwd> Tobias, The Mail app, for instance, has always kept connections open, at least.
[15:33:23] <dwd> Tobias, Although it doesn't do IDLE and stuff from what I recall. Which seems odd.
[15:33:52] <Tobias> dwd: yeah..but then i'm not allowed to write apps that do multitasking.
[15:33:55] <Zash> dwd: It doesn't? HAHA FAIL!
[15:35:53] <Tobias> dwd: does their cloud service (MobileME) even support IDLE?
[15:36:12] <dwd> Tobias, I don't recall. Their desktop client does, so I'd assume so.
[15:36:32] <dwd> Tobias, But FWIW, the IMAP clients on any old cheap Symbian phone will do.
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[16:03:33] <Zash> Is there a gazillion rooms on c.j.o?
[16:03:45] <Kev> No, only about 3500
[16:04:41] <darkrain> Has anyone ever seen issues with openfire establishing an SSL connection to another server? The error prosody reports during the handshake is "wrong version number", and I can't quite figure out what it doesn't like
[16:05:02] <Tobias> i only had issues creating c2s issues but that's years ago
[16:05:08] <Zash> (Gajim didn't like seem to like disco#items)
[16:05:11] <Tobias> *connections
[16:05:56] <Kev> darkrain: Yes. dwd probably remembers more. I think it was something to do with offering a feature Openfire didn't understand meant it went wrong.
[16:06:14] <darkrain> This isn't the op_noticket thing, I'm fairly certain (checking a packet capture right now)
[16:06:24] <Kev> k
[16:06:34] <darkrain> I wish it were :(
[16:07:04] <dwd> darkrain, Ah... Should I be nice and help debug this one?
[16:07:18] <dwd> darkrain, It's not speaking SSL/TLS at all.
[16:07:33] <dwd> darkrain, OpenSSL tries to pretend it is, but can't find the right version number.
[16:07:42] <darkrain> "It" = openfire?
[16:08:00] <dwd> darkrain, I suspect on the trace, you'll see Openfire speaking plaintext XMPP, no TLS.
[16:08:46] <dwd> darkrain, FWIW, our TLS expert at Isode told me this particular error code's real meaning, so I can't pretend to be all that clever.
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[16:08:59] <darkrain> ...ohh, yeah, it looks like that's where the "Protocol Version" alert comes from
[16:10:06] <darkrain> Okay, so what I see is: Openfire: <starttls/> Prosody: <proceed/> O: Client Hello (version 2 record, TLS 1.0 in the Version field) P: TLSv1 (record format and version field) O: plaintext </stream:stream> P: Alert!
[16:10:20] <dwd> darkrain, Sounds about right.
[16:10:40] <darkrain> So any idea why Openfire doesn't seem to like the Server Hello?
[16:11:12] <dwd> darkrain, Is it trying to validate the server cert and then closing the connection when it can't?
[16:11:53] <darkrain> Heh, I have no idea. I guess the next step should probably be to spin up my own openfire instance (I was helping someone try to federate with a government group, and now I'm just testing against public openfire servers :D)
[16:12:32] <Kev> darkrain: Easy solution, get the government group to buy an M-Link :)
[16:12:35] <dwd> darkrain, Which government group? I can suggest a decent XMPP server for governments...
[16:12:38] <Kev> Everyone wins.
[16:12:47] <darkrain> I knew you both might say that :-D
[16:12:53] <dwd> "might"?
[16:13:06] <darkrain> Haha, fair enough. ;)
[16:13:57] <darkrain> Thanks for the feedback; hopefully I'll be able to get something useful out of Openfire's logs
[16:15:35] <dwd> darkrain, Probably. Out of curiosity, is this a vanilla Openfire, or one of the more esoteric variants?
[16:16:43] <darkrain> Not sure what you mean by that; the public servers I tested against were igniterealtime.org (3.7.0 beta on Java 1.6.0_20) and chatmask.com (3.6.4 on 1.6.0_20)
[16:17:08] <dwd> darkrain, Oh, those were public ones. I misread.
[16:17:23] <dwd> !version igniterealtime.org
[16:17:29] <dwd> !version chatmask.com
[16:17:36] <Kanchil> dwd: chatmask.com is running Openfire version 3.6.4 on Java 1.6.0_20
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[16:18:00] <dwd> darkrain, Interesting. So M-Link interops.
[16:18:10] <darkrain> Those servers can establish an SSL connection to you?
[16:18:35] <darkrain> The only reason the person I'm working with noticed this is that he's requiring s2s encryption. From what I can tell, when the TLS negotiation fails, openfire will reconnect and not do TLS, which is why I don't think any other prosody user has noticed this
[16:18:36] <dwd> darkrain, Dunno, you'd have to ask Kev to check his server (where Kanchil runs).
[16:18:59] <Kev> dwd: Well, I'll be offering, and trying if offered, TLS at least.
[16:20:15] <dwd> Kev, Right. But as I recall, some variants of Openfire don't give us a version attribute (hence no TLS offer)
[16:20:24] <Kev> Ah.
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[16:52:32] <darkrain> Gah, IBR and Anonymous login are enabled by default in Openfire!?
[16:53:28] <Zash> Awesome!
[16:57:10] <darkrain> and the admin console is listening on all ports, before giving me a chance to change the admin password :(
[16:59:26] <Kev> Well, that's another highly advanced and exciting feature added to Swift. Now you can rename roster items.
[17:13:48] <darkrain> dwd: Thanks, from a test openfire instance, it looks like even if I tell openfire to accept self-signed certificates, it's throwing a certificate validation error to its logs
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[17:23:17] <johnny> darkrain, is it bad for ibr to be ennabed by default.. i think that's a design decision..
[17:23:25] <johnny> anonymous login tho.. a bit dfferent
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[17:24:30] <Kev> johnny: I think the ideal state is that you start with things disabled and get to enable them.
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[17:24:49] <Kev> What you don't want are situations where you've got a feature running that you didn't know about, and that lets people abuse your server.
[17:24:53] <johnny> Kev, not sure about that.. i think the ideal is reasonable defaults :)
[17:24:55] <Zash> and have the installer ask for a admin acct+password
[17:24:57] <jdev> +1 to Kev
[17:25:05] <jdev> Zash: It did, just not for the admin console :/
[17:25:11] * jdev in now known as darkrain.
[17:25:13] <darkrain> Oops
[17:25:14] <johnny> that makes things too complicated, people use openfire cuz it's nice
[17:25:19] <johnny> admin*
[17:25:33] <johnny> peraps it should be a post install question then..
[17:25:38] <darkrain> Argh, irssi-xmpp has destroyed my ability to use Pidgin. ^W closes windows!
[17:25:41] <johnny> err on the finish page
[17:25:43] <Zash> darkrain: admin console login != admin account ?
[17:25:50] <darkrain> Zash: apparently...not?
[17:25:59] <darkrain> Or the admin account I tried to create didn't actually take
[17:28:07] <Kev> In general, I'm very much in favour of smart defaults, for the way.
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[17:28:29] <Kev> Just not for giving out accounts on your system.
[17:28:37] <Kev> s/for the way/by the way/
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[17:30:32] <darkrain> +1 :)
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[21:21:57] <darkrain> It looks like my openfire issue is that it performs strict CN checking (even when I have the "allow self-signed certs" option in the UI checked), and doesn't check SANs.
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