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[10:13:07] <louiz’> About spam and flood. I'm wondering how IRC is doing to avoid that, because I never saw any, on IRC channels…
[10:14:55] <Tobias> i'm saw them..not often but then again i'm not on IRC that often
[10:17:43] <Zash> Not that much automated spam
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[10:32:36] <louiz’> but why? It's widely used… I don't understand why there are not that much spam bots
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[10:35:21] <Tobias> maybe people advertisers aim to reach aren't on IRC
[10:42:07] <louiz’> but they are on xmpp? :/
[10:42:29] <teo1> louiz’: in an irc network all linked servers know clients' ip addresses. so, it's easy to ban spammers
[10:42:33] <louiz’> IRC is waaay more popular than XMPP, at the moment, so I would think IRC is a better target for spam…
[10:43:24] <teo1> louiz’: in xmpp spammer can freely register as many jids as he wants, so banning is hard
[10:43:30] <louiz’> teo1, and how are spamers detected (o be banned)?
[10:43:57] <teo1> i've no idea. likely by channel operators
[10:44:08] <teo1> by hands
[10:44:32] <louiz’> ok
[10:45:20] <teo1> there are bots which take care of flood, but i don't think they really fight spam
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[21:36:46] <louiz’> I'm reading XEP 0277 (microblogging), and I think it's too bad that we cannot decide who, from our contact, can read each post, according to the group he/she is (in our roster)
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[21:37:15] <Link Mauve> louiz’, it’s PubSub that has problems.
[21:37:19] <louiz’> and also that people can not respond to the post, on OUR node
[21:37:21] <Link Mauve> 0060, not 0277.
[21:37:28] <louiz’> Link Mauve, yeah, more precisely, yes
[21:38:14] <louiz’> (for the second issue, though, it's 0277 that has the problem :p)
[21:38:16] <Kev> louiz’: Except that pubsub *does* allow you to limit by roster group.
[21:38:49] <louiz’> yeah, so you can do that with microbligging?
[21:39:59] <Kev> If your server supports the Roster Access Model, then you can configure the node that way, whatever payloads you're publishing.
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[21:40:06] <Link Mauve> Kev, that implies that the PubSub server has access to our roster, and for now it’s impossible if it isn’t *the* xmpp server.
[21:41:29] <Link Mauve> Hmm, for PEP, our PubSub server is always on our XMPP server, so it’s probably possible.
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[21:43:53] <louiz’> yeah, for microblogging, it's like with PEP: it's on our own server. Isn't it?
[21:44:05] <louiz’> So, in fact, yeah, you can do that. Great :)
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[21:45:33] <louiz’> for that, though, : "People can reply to your posts, but not directly comment on them.", I think it's too bad
[21:45:41] <louiz’> is it a limitation from PEP?
[21:46:18] <Kev> It's just how that XEP was written - it seems to be consistent with identi.ca, which is the only microblogging system I've had much exposure to.
[21:46:26] <Kev> (And by identi.ca, I really mean status.net)
[21:47:21] <Kev> I'm off to bed now, anyway.
[21:47:22] <Kev> GN.
[21:47:23] <louiz’> it's consistent with status.net, but differs from facebook, for example.
[21:47:26] <louiz’> good night
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[21:48:46] <johnny> Link Mauve, use prosody's http server
[21:49:13] <louiz’> e.g., I post an interesting Post, my contacts can see it. Now one of my contacts (say Bob) posts a reply (on his own "microblog"). Bob's contacts now see the reply but not the original post.
[21:49:24] <louiz’> That's not really convenient, and may even be confusing
[21:49:59] <louiz’> more: My own contacts cannot see Bob's response, because they are not in Bob's roster.
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[21:50:44] <Link Mauve> johnny, what problem would it solve?
[21:51:31] <Link Mauve> You wanted to say PubSub instead of HTTP?
[21:51:49] <louiz’> I think so, too
[21:55:22] <louiz’> Do you think it would be interesting to post my idea (about replying directly to micrblog posts) on the Standards mailing-list?
[21:56:00] <Link Mauve> Yes, I miss this feature too, but I don’t know how it could be added without changing the whole idea.
[21:56:56] <louiz’> Each blog post could be a Collection, where JID in my roster could post.
[21:56:57] <Link Mauve> (i.e. using a node per post instead of an item per post, and so an external PubSub service instead of PEP.)
[21:57:13] <Link Mauve> louiz’, why a collection?
[21:57:31] <Link Mauve> Why not just a leaf, with specific access rights?
[21:57:58] <louiz’> to distinguish the original post from the responses?
[21:58:03] <Link Mauve> I think a write-only access right would be very great.
[21:58:46] <louiz’> why write-only? Oo
[21:59:07] <Link Mauve> With such an access right, we could have a convention that the first item (with a particular itemID, default or in a configuration field) is the post, and the other the comments.
[21:59:51] <Link Mauve> louiz’, like the sticky bit, all users can create files, but can’t modify the ones of others.
[22:00:20] <Zash> Can't you have a subscription mode for replies, so the one being replied to is automagicaly subscribed
[22:00:40] <louiz’> oh, OK, I thought it was "you can post items in it, but not retrieve them (no read right)" :D
[22:02:54] <louiz’> Zash, well, the one being replied to is probably already suscribed. If the replier saw the original post, they have each other in their rosters. So the original poster will probably get the answer (unless the subscription is not "both"). But the other people in the original poster's roster won't get access to the answer
[22:03:19] <louiz’> (or am I mistaken?)
[22:03:50] <Zash> louiz’: Not if you subscribe to tags (if that exists/is possible in the µb xep)
[22:04:19] <louiz’> Ok, I don't know about tags yet…
[22:04:24] <louiz’> But that doesn't solve my problem
[22:04:48] <louiz’> oh, you mean tags like on identi.ca, with #tag ?
[22:04:52] <Zash> yes
[22:05:06] <louiz’> I don't think that's in the XEP at all.
[22:05:25] <Link Mauve> louiz’, in the filter part.
[22:05:46] <louiz’> where exactly?
[22:06:00] <Link Mauve> Section 12.19 IIRC.
[22:06:23] <louiz’> 12.19 Content-Based Pubsub Systems ?
[22:06:59] <louiz’> it's only in the pubsub xep, not microblogging's
[22:07:10] <johnny> the prolem it solves is allowing them to auth against your xmmpp server db based on your roster
[22:07:30] <johnny> on a site that is
[22:08:03] <louiz’> johnny, what does "it" refer to, in your sentence?
[22:08:07] <louiz’> (I don't get it, sorry :/)
[22:08:55] <johnny> what you were talking about earlier.. about http not having access to the roster
[22:09:06] <johnny> for miccroblogging
[22:09:13] <louiz’> we weren't talking about http
[22:09:21] <louiz’> I wasn't, at least
[22:09:41] <Zash> johnny: you don't feel like building a xmpp µblogging to ostatus gateway? ;)
[22:09:56] <johnny> i don't even use microblogging
[22:10:23] <johnny> Zash, it would be easi if you attached one of those lua web app frameworks to prosody's http server tho
[22:10:55] <Link Mauve> johnny, it’s the PubSub server that can’t access to the roster if it isn’t in the XMPP server (or hasn’t access to the roster database).
[22:11:18] <Link Mauve> So every external PubSub components or PubSub services in another host.
[22:11:19] <Zash> johnny: I think to publish you only need to generate a RSS/Atom feed and ping a Hub
[22:11:47] <MattJ> Link Mauve, might want to talk to HanzZ... he's working on a way to allow components to manage a user's roster (and is implementing it in Spectrum+Prosody)
[22:11:57] <MattJ> brb
[22:13:30] <Link Mauve> Yes, I have seen his wiki page.
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[22:21:01] <Florob> FWIW there is a Publish-Only affiliation for PubSub
[22:25:36] <Link Mauve> Which node configuration should enable any non-privilegied user to be publish-only?
[22:27:43] <johnny> Zash, check the atompub thing for ejabberd
[22:32:39] <Florob> gnah... That was indeed one of the faults in PubSub. Affiliation can only be set based on bare JID. And I can't find a way to set a default one either
[22:32:54] <louiz’> Hum, my idea would change everything in XEP 0277, since each post is just an item in an unique node. Thread's (a post + responses) cannot be defined that way
[22:34:08] <louiz’> Each post should be a node (leaf), with the first item being the post, and other items being the response (where only people suscribed to it could post (publish-only, for them)
[22:34:18] <louiz’> responses*
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