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[13:51:18] <Zash> From XEP 45#invite
> If the room is members-only, the service MAY also add the invitee to the member list.
Why only a MAY? Kind of pointless to to invite someone to somewhere they can't join.
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[15:14:44] <deryni> Invites could trigger single-join permissions or something.
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[15:20:07] <Zash> "single-join permissions" ?
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[15:22:59] <deryni> An invite could let the person invited join once but not add them to the member list.
[15:23:36] <Zash> Sounds harder to implement
[15:24:16] <Zash> And can you participate in a members only room if you aren't a member?
[15:24:39] <deryni> No idea, but assuming you can't the invite-permission logic would need to allow that too.
[15:25:20] <deryni> Anyway, my point was just that forcing a member list change may not be necessary.
[15:25:38] <deryni> But I don't think SHOULD would hurt much.
[15:26:04] <Zash> Example 117. Service Notes Loss of Membership
If the room is members-only, the service MUST remove the user from the room..
[15:26:50] <deryni> I'd argue that doesn't apply since they wouldn't be losing membership when they are in the room, but I could see people disagreeing
with me on that.
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[15:27:30] <MattJ> Could remain member until they leave
[15:28:52] <deryni> Right, that'd be another way to do it.
[15:29:04] <deryni> The only way if it was a MUST.
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[15:32:46] <Zash> Does it say somewhere that only members can be in a members only room?
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[15:38:28] <Zash> Members-Only Room
A room that a user cannot enter without being on the member list
[15:40:23] <deryni> Would what I was talking about be not strictly compliant, sure, but I'm not sure it'd be non-compliant in a way that matters.
I'm not against the change mind you, I'm just not sure it gains much (then again it probably doesn't hurt much either).
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[15:46:38] <brightbyte> hi all. i'm trying to write a small client in python (xmpppy) that sends messages to a group (MUC/GC). i got direct chat messages
working, but using type=groupchat only gives me not-acceptable errors.
[15:46:50] <brightbyte> how do i find out what i'm doing wrong?
[15:48:09] <brightbyte> code: http://pastebin.com/6JKFJM8T
[15:48:59] <brightbyte> basically, i handle groupchat just like chat, except that i send a presence message to the room first, and then messages with
type=groupchat.
[15:49:34] <Kev> You need to have more logic to join a room than just sending a presence message.
[15:50:14] <Kev> Sending the stream would be more useful than the code, probably.
[15:50:37] <MattJ> I suspect you're sending the presence to the room's bare JID
[15:51:05] <Kev> And potentially without the 'join the MUC please' element - why I was asking for the stream :)
[15:52:33] <brightbyte> Kev: do you happen to know a convenient way to log the stream with xmpppy?
[15:53:16] <Kev> I don't, all my Python work has been with Sleek.
[15:53:25] <Kev> Although you can probably log it server-side.
[15:53:25] <brightbyte> i'll poke
[15:54:06] <brightbyte> MattJ: ah, i'm supposed to send my desired nick as the resources part of thge jid, right?
[15:54:13] <brightbyte> kind of odd, but i'll try...
[15:54:52] <Kev> You are. Reading [xep 45], or even better the book would probably help you.
[15:55:05] <Zash> Kev: no HAL here :(
[15:55:19] <Kev> I thought I had Kanchil in here.
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[15:55:59] <Kev> Ah, ghost, right.
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[15:56:09] <Kev> MattJ: Can you kick kanchil, please?
[15:56:17] <Kev> Or anyone else whose client supports MUC admin :)
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[15:56:24] <Kev> Ta.
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[15:56:35] <Kev> !xep 45
[15:56:36] <Kanchil> Kev: XEP-0045: Multi-User Chat is Standards Track (Draft, 2008-07-16) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html
[15:56:38] <Kev> Much better.
[15:59:40] <brightbyte> yay! got it working, thanks MattJ! adding the nick to the kid for joining, but not for sending messages, did the trick.
[15:59:47] <brightbyte> ok, next question...
[16:00:13] <brightbyte> how do i make a group moderated? i.e. anyone can join and listen, but only special members can talk?
[16:01:00] <Kev> !xep 45
[16:01:00] <Kanchil> Kev: XEP-0045: Multi-User Chat is Standards Track (Draft, 2008-07-16) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html
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[16:01:56] <brightbyte> yes, i have been staring at the roles/permissions stuff. and from what i see there, the setup i want should be the default
:)
[16:01:59] <brightbyte> or maybe i'm confused.
[16:02:25] <brightbyte> anyway, i'll read the spec more closely later. thanks a bunch for now...
[16:02:44] <Kev> You want a moderated room, where most people are visitors.
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[16:08:01] <brightbyte> right. will poke at it some more later on. time to fix dinner.
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[16:51:28] <Zash> !ping MattJ
[16:51:28] <Kanchil> Zash: Ping failed (jid-malformed)
[16:51:40] <Zash> !ping prosody.im
[16:51:43] <stpeter> heh
[16:51:46] <Kanchil> Zash: Pong from prosody.im in 5.644 seconds
[16:51:54] <jonas> !version prasody.im
[16:51:57] <Kanchil> jonas: prasody.im can't be reached via XMPP
[16:52:06] <jonas> !server_version prasody.im
[16:52:08] <Zash> !version prosody.im
[16:52:08] <Kanchil> Zash: prosody.im is running Prosody version hg:4bd78a5fee75 on Linux
[16:52:11] <jonas> oh
[16:52:14] <jonas> spelling is hard sometimes
[16:52:21] <jonas> !version jabber.se
[16:52:24] <MattJ> Zash, http://identi.ca/notice/45582842
[16:52:26] <Kanchil> jonas: jabber.se is running ejabberd version 2.1.4 on unix/linux 2.6.18
[16:53:35] <Zash> MattJ: Bah!
[16:53:43] <MattJ> Zash, pft
[16:53:45] <MattJ> Back up now :)
[16:54:06] <MattJ> and now people can stop complaining about me running a year-old Prosody on prosody.im :)
[16:54:12] <Zash> MattJ: You expect me to use pubsub over http?
[16:54:27] <MattJ> No :)
[16:54:35] <MattJ> I was going to send an email, but it was back up soon enough
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[16:59:33] <stpeter> hi bear!
[16:59:42] <stpeter> /me is finally back online after too much travel
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[17:01:00] <stpeter> hmm, I shoulda poked the gtalk guys about various bugs when I saw them in Maastricht ~10 days ago...
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[17:01:48] <MattJ> Locked them up in a room with a laptop and internet connection and taken the key
[17:02:06] <stpeter> yep!
[17:02:41] <MattJ> Well with Wave out of the way perhaps they'll have more time now :)
[17:02:54] <stpeter> haha
[17:02:55] <stpeter> yeah
[17:03:02] <stpeter> different team, though
[17:03:26] <stpeter> I never did warm up to Wave, but I thought it was perhaps because I'm an old fogie now :P
[17:04:27] <MattJ> I seem to be the only person around here who did :)
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[17:05:26] <MattJ> I think it was rather short-sighted to pull the plug due to lack of adoption (though I shan't pretend to assume that was the
real reason)
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[17:06:20] <Kev> I think you could take most of the basis of waves, and apply them on top of existing standards like mail and xmpp, and create
something very cool.
[17:06:46] <Kev> I had no reason to use wave, though.
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[17:08:47] <Zash> Binary blobs over pubsub!!
[17:09:26] <Link Mauve> :o
[17:09:32] <Link Mauve> Where ?
[17:09:39] <louiz> nowhere
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[17:10:47] <Zash> Link Mauve: Wave
[17:11:45] <Link Mauve> Ok.
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[17:39:41] <Zash> !ping prosody.im
[17:40:09] <Florob> okay, that is kinda ironic
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[17:41:05] <Zash> !slap MattJ
[17:41:05] <Kanchil> /me slaps MattJ with large trout
[17:44:07] <Zash> !xep blocking
[17:44:08] <Kanchil> Zash: Multiple matches: XEP-0159: Spim-Blocking Control, XEP-0191: Simple Communications Blocking
[17:44:13] <Zash> !xep 191
[17:44:13] <Kanchil> Zash: XEP-0191: Simple Communications Blocking is Standards Track (Draft, 2007-02-15) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0191.html
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[17:46:29] <Zash> Does any client implement xep 191?
[17:46:45] <Kev> Not that I know of, but I suspect they will once jabber.org supports it.
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[17:48:26] <stpeter> /me tries to set some work priorities for the next few weeks
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[17:50:39] <deryni> pidgin supports 191.
[17:52:02] <stpeter> Pidgin rocks :)
[17:52:28] <stpeter> maybe Psi will support it after GSoC? or perhaps that wasn't part of Tobias's plan
[17:53:06] <Tobias> it wasn't :) at 7 to the xep number and you're there :P
[17:53:10] <Tobias> *add
[17:53:20] <stpeter> yeah, true
[17:53:24] <Zash> !xep 198
[17:53:24] <Kanchil> Zash: XEP-0198: Stream Management is Standards Track (Draft, 2009-06-17) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0198.html
[17:53:27] <Zash> :D
[17:58:59] <Zash> Srsly, did MattJ explode from prosody 0.8 being too awesome?
[17:59:33] <Zash> !ping prosody.im
[17:59:33] <stpeter> haha
[17:59:38] <Kanchil> Zash: Ping failed (remote-server-not-found)
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[18:02:44] <louiz> :o It's down, I had a question ! :(
[18:04:41] <stpeter> weird, command-tab stopped working on my machine
[18:04:45] <stpeter> that's a PITA
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[18:07:48] <stpeter> brb
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[18:28:00] <louiz> nooo, I cannot clone prosody's mercurial repos :(
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[18:34:11] <Zash> the website is down!
[18:34:57] <louiz> yeah, it's sad
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[18:43:58] <Zash> !ping prosody.im
[18:44:01] <Kanchil> Zash: Ping failed (remote-server-not-found)
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[18:48:01] <Asterix> !ping prosody.im
[18:48:05] <Kanchil> Asterix: Pong from prosody.im in 3.771 seconds
[18:48:11] <Asterix> it's back it seems
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[18:49:12] <MattJ> It is indeed
[18:50:20] <MattJ> Back with twice the RAM :)
[18:50:30] <MattJ> Now I can run twice as many Prosody instances!
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[19:07:38] <louiz> !xep anonymous
[19:07:39] <Kanchil> louiz: XEP-0175: Best Practices for Use of SASL ANONYMOUS is Informational (Active, 2007-11-07) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0175.html
[19:07:47] <louiz> hum
[19:08:16] <louiz> oh, anonymous authentication is in the RFC?
[19:08:24] <MattJ> It's a SASL mechanism
[19:08:47] <MattJ> so completely unrelated to XMPP in that regard :)
[19:08:49] <louiz> I don't know anything about SASL stuff and any authentication thing
[19:09:01] <MattJ> SASL is a generic authentication protocol
[19:09:11] <MattJ> There are numerous mechanisms defined
[19:09:15] <MattJ> ANONYMOUS is one such mechanism
[19:09:26] <MattJ> Each have their own RFCs
[19:09:28] <louiz> Well, I'm just searching why I can't loggin anonymously to prosody with xmpppy
[19:09:38] <MattJ> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4505
[19:09:45] <MattJ> What happens?
[19:10:20] <Tobias> XML log would help
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[19:10:34] <Tobias> if you connect without TLS you could even use wireshark to get it
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[19:11:08] <louiz> What happens? I don't know, really :/
[19:11:54] <johnny> look at teh xml :)
[19:12:22] <Zash> MattJ: btw, abiword seems to only support digest-md5
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[19:13:47] <MattJ> Zash, it's likely buggy support :/
[19:14:15] <MattJ> louiz, if it's too hard to get the XML then Prosody's debug log may also help
[19:14:16] <Zash> MattJ: Does prosody only allow scram without tls?
[19:14:44] <MattJ> No, the only difference TLS makes is whether it allows PLAIN
[19:15:06] <Tobias> Zash: however it comes down to that if you use hashed backend
[19:15:17] <Zash> which I do
[19:15:28] <MattJ> Right, so you can only use PLAIN or SCRAM
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[19:15:41] <louiz> MattJ, I have the XML
[19:15:46] <louiz> but I don't understand :p
[19:15:49] <Zash> and abiword doesn't do tls, so no plain?
[19:15:53] <MattJ> louiz, yay... paste it into the Prosody chatroom
[19:18:29] <Tobias> Zash: poor abiword...what lib does it use for xmpp?
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[19:18:50] <Zash> Tobias: No clue
[19:20:03] <louiz> well, it seems to work, in fact. It may just be a bug in my client…
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[19:20:48] <MattJ> louiz, we can't help you with no information about the problem :)
[19:21:28] <louiz> Yeah, I know, but as it's a problem from my part, I think I'll resolve it on my own, thank you :p
[19:21:53] <MattJ> We don't know it's a problem on your part yet, but fair enough :)
[19:22:45] <louiz> Well, I just tested with xmppy on its own (in a python console), and it seems it worked.
[19:22:57] <louiz> But, well, I'll paste you some XML, so that you can confirm it worked
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[19:27:15] <Zash> Is there any problem with having weight and prio at 0 in SRV?
[19:30:17] <MattJ> Zash, I don't /think/ so
[19:30:22] <MattJ> I don't know why nobody does
[19:30:43] <Zash> For some reason I have "10 0 port host"
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[22:19:01] <MattJ> stpeter is now officially pushing drafts out faster than I can review them :)
[22:19:34] <Zash> What's he pushing unofficially then?
[22:20:08] <Tobias> MattJ: don't you just have to review the diffs?
[22:20:11] <MattJ> It's official in that it came from the official "MattJ Fun Facts" department
[22:20:29] <MattJ> Tobias, that assumes I reviewed the full document first :)
[22:20:39] <Tobias> MattJ: i thought that's a given
[22:20:40] <Tobias> :P
[22:20:42] <MattJ> I still haven't finished reviewing 3921bis
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[22:34:30] <Florob> Shouldn't that say: "MattJ is really slow"? :P
[22:35:00] <MattJ> I'm not slow... it's purely a matter of latency
[22:39:24] <Zash> /me slaps MattJ with a PATA cable
[22:39:35] <Zash> MattJ: Prosody 0.8!
[22:39:54] <Zash> It's Tuesday here!
[22:40:35] <MattJ> It's a matter of latency, Zash
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