Logs for jdev

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[09:37:17] <jonas> as xmpp startcom ca thingy ended, whats the preferred way to get free certificates for xmpp servers these days? cant see they have some just-for-xmpp thing
[09:37:38] <Guus> they had like a month ago?
[09:37:45] <Guus> did they stop doing that now?
[09:38:02] <jonas> http://blog.xmpp.org/index.php/2009/09/ca-updates/
[09:38:37] <Guus> right, but http://www.startssl.com/ still offers free XMPP certs
[09:38:50] <Guus> although there's no xmpp.org frontend any more
[09:39:49] <jonas> it's said in the post that they are to offer xmpp specific services, but such i cannot find
[09:40:01] <jonas> only the free "secure your webserver" service
[09:41:23] <Guus> if you sign-up, you can generate a certificate that you can use to secure an SSL/TLS XMPP service for free
[09:41:28] <Guus> I did it last month
[09:41:52] <Guus> you sign in to some control panel
[09:42:03] <Guus> and from there, it's pretty self-explanatory
[09:42:19] <Guus> you need to run two 'wizards'
[09:42:25] <jonas> so the "xmpp specific" stuff just is not there yet then
[09:45:10] <Guus> http://imgur.com/CPNEK.jpg
[09:45:19] <Guus> that's a screenshot of my control panel there
[09:45:25] <Guus> look at the bottom-right cornoer
[09:45:28] <Guus> corner*
[09:45:35] <Guus> there's the specific XMPP stuff
[09:45:39] <jonas> ah, !
[09:46:13] <jonas> thanks, time to renew then
[09:46:23] <Guus> yw
[09:46:24] <Guus> beware
[09:46:31] <Guus> you can't revoke a cert without paying
[09:46:46] <jonas> i have an expired cert
[09:46:52] <Guus> and the interface wasn't very intuitive to me
[09:47:00] <Guus> from them?
[09:47:07] <jonas> from the xmpp ca time
[09:47:14] <jonas> so indirectly via them
[09:47:25] <Guus> hmm, not sure if you have an account with them then.
[09:47:38] <Guus> perhaps you should poke psa?
[09:47:47] <jonas> perhaps
[09:48:08] <Guus> or see if you can simply start from scratch with them
[10:39:25] <Zash> !ping swift.im
[10:39:25] <Kanchil> Zash: Pong from swift.im in 0.134 seconds
[10:39:34] <Zash> !ping rooms.swift.im
[10:39:35] <Kanchil> Zash: Ping failed (bad-request)
[10:41:31] <Kev> Having problems joining?
[10:41:54] <Zash> It was slow
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[13:48:56] <MattJ> Anyone here using ejabberd, and wouldn't mind being on my test account roster with PEP set?
[13:49:08] <MattJ> or know a public ejabberd 2.1.5 server with working PEP...
[13:49:52] <Guus> !version process-one.net
[13:49:53] <Guus> ?
[13:49:56] <Kanchil> Guus: process-one.net is running ejabberd version 2.1.0 on unix/linux 2.6.26
[13:50:33] <jonas> !version talkr.im
[13:50:35] <Kanchil> jonas: talkr.im is running ejabberd version 2.1.x on unix/linux 2.6.21
[13:50:40] <Guus> hehe
[13:51:13] <Zash> !version jabber.se
[13:51:18] <Kanchil> Zash: jabber.se is running ejabberd version 2.1.4 on unix/linux 2.6.18
[13:56:48] <Hermitifier> !version jabbim.cz
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[13:57:07] <Hermitifier> oops
[13:57:40] <Hermitifier> anyway, that server runs on 2.1.5 ejabberd
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[19:29:43] <louiz> Hum, I don't understand how a client is supposed to make the difference between a private message from a muc and a message from one of her contacts…
[19:29:53] <louiz> It's of type "chat" in both cases
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[19:30:52] <Zash> Huh?
[19:31:00] <Zash> !xep 45
[19:31:01] <Kanchil> Zash: XEP-0045: Multi-User Chat is Standards Track (Draft, 2008-07-16) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html
[19:31:06] <Kev> louiz: If it comes from a MUC, it's a PM.
[19:31:12] <Kev> If it comes from a non-MUC, it's not.
[19:31:23] <louiz> « it's a PM », hu ?
[19:31:29] <Kev> Private Message.
[19:31:43] <Zash> this is not a pm
[19:32:11] <mlundblad> MattJ: any jingle ft news?
[19:32:15] <louiz> yes, and if I was in your roster and you'd send me a message.
[19:32:36] <louiz> Zash, would there have been a difference between that and the "this is a pm"?
[19:32:50] <louiz> (wow, bad english here)
[19:32:56] <Zash> louiz: messages here should have a type=groupchat
[19:33:07] <Zash> !ping
[19:33:07] <Kanchil> Zash: pong
[19:33:19] <louiz> I know, I'm talking about the difference between PM and messages from my roster contacts.
[19:33:30] <Zash> PM's have type=chat
[19:33:40] <louiz> and from my roster don't ?
[19:34:01] <Kev> louiz: I don't understand what the question is. Can you restate the problem?
[19:34:04] <Zash> messages to "normal" users not over muc are type=chat too
[19:34:42] <louiz> Kev, I'm asking how to differentiate a message coming from a "normal" user (someone in my roster) and a Private Message from a muc.
[19:34:47] <louiz> Both have type="chat"
[19:35:00] <Kev> You tell the difference by looking at the JID.
[19:35:15] <Kev> If the message is from a MUC JID, it's coming as a Private Message through the MUC, otherwise it's not.
[19:35:15] <louiz> By doing "are we in a room name node@server? Yes: Private Message from the MUC. No: Normal message ?
[19:35:23] <Kev> Yes.
[19:35:27] <louiz> :/
[19:35:33] <Zash> you can do disco#info at the bare jid of the room, it should say muc or groupchat somewhere
[19:35:57] <louiz> Well, my client won't do a disco request on each message :/
[19:36:04] <Kev> Zash: You *could*, but you don't really want to do that - you really just want the test I gave.
[19:36:46] <louiz> I think it's stupid, PM (from a muc) should have an other type, something like "private"…
[19:36:57] <Kev> For what reason?
[19:37:03] <Kev> It's just a normal chat.
[19:37:07] <louiz> to differentiate them easily…
[19:37:27] <Kev> It's already easy to tell them apart, though.
[19:38:00] <Zash> why would you need to separate pm's from normal chat messages?
[19:38:10] <louiz> Well, not really. But, ok…
[19:38:17] <louiz> Zash, to have different UI, for example
[19:38:47] <louiz> like gajim does with the "Header": "Zash from room jdev@…" or "Zash".
[19:38:53] <bear> if you don't seperate them then how do you reply to a pm and not have it go to the muc?
[19:39:36] <Zash> type=chat vs groupchat?
[19:40:07] <bear> oh please don't tell me you actually create the xml by hand when replying to xmpp stanzas?
[19:40:16] <louiz> bear, me?…
[19:40:19] <Zash> and knowledge of if you have joined the bare jid as a muc
[19:40:33] <evilotto> a reply to a message sent through a muc must itself go through the muc, since you don't know the real jid of the sender
[19:40:38] <bear> no - I was being kinda rude to zash
[19:40:43] <Zash> bear: :(
[19:40:53] <bear> sorry - let's start that one over
[19:40:59] <louiz> Zash, yeah, but that knowledge is too much, I think that a type "private" would ease all this question…
[19:41:12] <louiz> But, well, I have no choice, I'll do that :)
[19:41:19] <bear> /me apologizes for jumping into the conversation *and* being rude
[19:41:26] <bear> /me goes to sit in the corner for a timeout
[19:42:32] <louiz> evilotto, but If you answer to a private message (from MUC), you answer to="room@server/nick", but if it's a Normal message, you answer to "node@server", right?
[19:42:47] <louiz> So you have to differentiate both cases to answer correctly
[19:44:27] <Zash> if bare_jid(stanza.from) in array_of_joined_groupchats and stanza.type == groupchat then it's a normal muc message
[19:44:54] <Zash> s/group// then it's a pm
[19:45:25] <louiz> "array_of_joined_chats" ? :o
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[19:46:07] <louiz> But yeah, Ok. I was just wondering "why", but OK :p
[19:46:17] <Zash> why what
[19:46:51] <louiz> Why is this Simpler
[19:47:00] <louiz> (by using an other type)
[19:47:18] <Kev> louiz: Maybe it isn't, but it's what we've got.
[19:47:40] <louiz> yeah, I know. I'm ok with that :p
[19:47:42] <johnny> also.. why disco on every request.. that's what caching is for
[19:48:04] <johnny> if cache that jid@example.org is a muc, then you'll know
[19:48:11] <louiz> johnny, yes, but Checking the cache is also more complicated that "if type == 'private'" :p
[19:48:19] <johnny> what's the differene with a wrapper
[19:48:30] <johnny> if isMucMessage
[19:48:34] <Zash> and iirc you need to join a gc to send messages to it
[19:48:34] <louiz> wrapper ?
[19:48:37] <johnny> it's really not that much more complicated
[19:48:41] <louiz> Zash, yes
[19:48:56] <johnny> Zash, that would require a rewrite of the xep
[19:48:57] <Zash> louiz: so you'll probably need to keep track of them
[19:49:04] <Zash> johnny: wat?
[19:49:20] <johnny> muc is built not like irc
[19:49:27] <louiz> Zash, I'm already keeping track of my MUCs. I've got really no problem implementing that. I was just WONDERING :p
[19:49:27] <johnny> you can't "join" a muc server
[19:49:48] <Zash> johnny: as in <presence to="room@host/nick"/>
[19:50:04] <louiz> "you can't "join" a muc server" but a Muc ROOM, yes.
[19:50:07] <johnny> yes
[19:50:10] <johnny> that's the difference
[19:50:12] <louiz> yes
[19:50:31] <Zash> wat
[19:50:37] <louiz> but nobody said you had to join the server…
[19:51:01] <johnny> i was replying to zash that said "you need to join a gc to send messages to it"
[19:51:09] <Zash> johnny: gc as in a groupchat room
[19:51:13] <johnny> yes i know
[19:51:35] <johnny> well.. in irc you can join the server and send messages to the room (with proper permissions)
[19:51:59] <Zash> johnny: I know, but afaik, you can't do that with MUC
[19:52:07] <johnny> that's what i said
[19:52:34] <Zash> /me is confused
[19:54:35] <evilotto> looks like a private messsage is type="normal", private chat is type="chat" and a muc message is type="groupchat"
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[19:55:47] <deryni> SHOULD be "chat", MUST NOT be "groupchat", MAY be unspecified.
[19:55:49] <evilotto> it's meaningless to have a groupchat message directed to a user's jid.
[19:55:55] <deryni> Section 7.8
[19:56:15] <louiz> evilotto, "normal" message is one OTHER type
[19:56:18] <evilotto> or, it can be done, but it would look confusing.
[19:57:10] <evilotto> louiz: other what?
[19:57:29] <Zash> evilotto: the ones with subject and body usualy shown similar to email messages
[19:57:38] <evilotto> I'm just commenting on what my raw xml stream looks like when sending messages or chat requests to muc users.
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[19:58:33] <louiz> But "chat" messages coming from someone in my roster, and "normal" messages coming from the same, are two differente types.
[19:58:57] <louiz> And private message (also type='chat') are also different if coming from a MUC
[19:59:25] <evilotto> you can send a private message to a muc user, or have a chat with a muc user. Same as with someone in your roster.
[20:00:54] <evilotto> your client may choose to display them the same or differently.
[20:01:52] <louiz> Well, seems like my client "decided" to concidere them identically :p (but that was not intended)
[20:07:44] <johnny> well as long as that room was disco'ed at least once, you'd know the difference..
[20:11:18] <evilotto> one of my gripes with the muc protocol is that there is no way to resynchronize the membership. Yes, in an ideal world it's unnecessary, but it's occasionally useful in this world.
[20:12:50] <evilotto> a lack of an intelligent filterable discovery protocol is another.
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