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[16:27:48] <Zash> Kev!
[16:28:38] <Kev> Hmm?
[16:29:17] <dwd> Will, Name that tune?
[16:29:41] <Zash> Kev: is swift crashing when beeing kicked a known issue? otherwize, I dumped a bt in the swift room
[16:30:23] <Kev> Sorry, clustering fun with my server.
[16:30:36] <Will> dwd: It's the guitar tuning for Kaki King's song 2 O'Clock (which I was playing this morning) :)
[16:31:25] <dwd> Will, Ah, okay.
[16:32:12] <Will> Time for an XMPP theme song?
[16:32:46] <Zash> A XMPP Jingle! ;P
[16:32:54] <dwd> "<message/> in a bottle"?
[16:33:07] <louiz> :)
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[16:34:33] <dwd> "Let's send a message by X! M! PP!" - with the arm movements, obviously.
[16:35:22] <MattJ> Next summit - I'll bring the casette player
[16:35:35] <Kev> Next summit - I'll bring the shotgun.
[16:35:46] <Tobias> that'll be fun :)
[16:36:25] <dwd> MattJ, I like the idea that your idea of state-of-the-art recording gear is a cassette recorder.
[16:36:29] <bjc> http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=128837
[16:36:40] <Will> I take it all back
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[16:36:54] <Will> Any XMPP song would have to be banned for humanitarian reasons :D
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[16:37:26] <dwd> Will, How could it be bad, with such similar computing related songs as the GNU Free Software Song?
[16:37:40] <Zash> dwd: Hm, a XMPP over bottle XEP? Similar to IP over Avian Carrier \o/
[16:37:47] <Will> dwd: Have you ever seen RMS performing that live?
[16:37:59] <louiz> I have \o
[16:38:02] <dwd> Will, At an NTK night out, no less.
[16:38:17] <Will> /me cannot compete
[16:39:00] <dwd> Indeed. NTK. Those were the days.
[16:39:16] <Will> I feel like seeing it at GUADaKademy 2009 is not really old-skool enough :)
[16:39:42] <MattJ> dwd, I thought that song could only be found on cassette
[16:39:51] <MattJ> I'm wrong though, it's earlier than I thought
[16:40:14] <dwd> MattJ, That's "compact cassette tape" to you.
[16:40:35] <MattJ> Those certainly won't invented yet
[16:40:35] <Kev> You bring the c90, I'll bring the c4?
[16:41:09] <MattJ> I think they only way they could see to getting people off tapes was to make the replacements shiny
[16:43:07] <dwd> For those who missed NTK, by not having been born yet or something, then http://www.ntk.net/1998/09/25/ kicks off with one of the more memorable annotated quotes.
[16:44:27] <louiz> thanks
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[17:00:22] <Tobias> for finding a MUC service at your host one would hierarchically go through service discovery till what? till i find one with the identity "conference" or with the feature ".../protocol/muc"?
[17:00:42] <Tobias> what does the world look like out there? do all MUC implementation set both?
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[17:04:19] <Tobias> i think looking for the feature should be sufficient, right
[17:04:21] <Tobias> ?
[17:05:25] <badlop> the protocol requires both for the component: "MUST return its identity and the features"
[17:05:37] <badlop> an optimistic client can look at one, or at the other
[17:06:09] <Tobias> badlop: thanks...then i better look for both :)
[17:06:14] <badlop> a pessimistic client would search for one; if not found: for the other; if not found, then it isn't muc
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[17:06:37] <Tobias> well..don't you get both info at once anyway
[17:07:13] <badlop> right, both are received on the same stanza
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[18:33:12] <dwd> Tobias, Identity first, then protocol.
[18:33:32] <dwd> Tobias, Identity specifies what the domain's primary service is, in effect.
[18:34:06] <dwd> Tobias, FWIW, I have been tempted to expose the PubSub featureset on the MUC domains in M-Link, in which case both featuresets would be exposed.
[18:34:26] <louiz> Is there any client out there that lets someone browser pubsub nodes, view the item, configure the nodes, etc?
[18:34:51] <dwd> louiz, I'm not sure what Gajim does. I know it appears to do something along those lines.
[18:35:24] <louiz> dwd, I'm asking that because what gajim does currently is almost nothing, and I'm currently coding a more complete interface (for Gajim)
[18:35:39] <dwd> louiz, Oh, that's very cool.
[18:35:40] <louiz> and I wanted to see if something else is doing the same job, to have inspiration
[18:36:27] <dwd> louiz, Then I don't know, though, unfortunately. But I'd be *very* interested to see what you have, and may well offer patches as and when. (I'm working on PubSub for M-Link)
[18:36:43] <louiz> (one can find the sources here: http://louiz.org/~louiz/gajim_pubsub_browser/src/ if someone is interested. Even if currently you can just browse the nodes)
[18:37:03] <louiz> the modified parts are on src/common/pubsub.py and src/disco.py
[18:37:28] <louiz> It's the first time I hack on gajim, so I may have done ugly things, I don't know
[18:37:32] <dwd> louiz, You have a patch? I run off hg, often with modifications.
[18:38:01] <louiz> hu, if I knew how, I could get a patch from hg, I think… But…
[18:38:06] <dwd> louiz, The style is generally pretty clear. And if you can provide patches early and often, then they'll tell you if you're going wildly wrong.
[18:38:13] <dwd> "hg diff".
[18:38:26] <louiz> yep
[18:38:29] <dwd> As in, once you've got a hg working directory setup.
[18:38:52] <louiz> well, I'm waiting for a more complete "patch" and then I'll open a ticket on gajim's trac to receive feedback
[18:39:21] <dwd> louiz, No, open the ticket first, then code.
[18:39:35] <louiz> oh
[18:39:35] <dwd> louiz, Also, join gajim's MUC, always a good idea. :-)
[18:39:40] <louiz> ok.
[18:39:47] <louiz> yeah, I sometimes go there :p
[18:39:54] <louiz> but Ok, I'll open a ticket tonight
[18:43:23] <dwd> And sort yourself out with hg - it'll make your life a lot easier.
[18:44:25] <louiz> ok :p
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[18:53:21] <Aidan> Can someone help me with something?
[18:54:15] <Aidan> I don't understand the stanza's exchanged during negotiation with an XMPP server using SASL.
[18:54:42] <Aidan> <auth xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl' mechanism='PLAIN'>AGp1bGlldAByMG0zMG15cjBtMzA=</auth>
[18:54:43] <Aidan> and
[18:54:53] <Aidan> The challenge response
[18:57:04] <MattJ> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-xmpp-3920bis-11#section-6
[18:57:15] <Aidan> I know
[18:57:22] <Aidan> that's what I've been using
[18:57:45] <Aidan> But it doesn't explain what goes in the inner text of the 'auth' and challenge/response elements
[18:58:29] <MattJ> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4616.txt
[18:59:01] <Zash> Aidan: base64(␀username␀password)
[18:59:16] <Aidan> Oh thanks!
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[19:00:39] <waqas> Zash: What character did you use for \0?
[19:00:49] <Zash> waqas: U+2400
[19:01:18] <Zash> ASCII control char code + 0x2400 has representations
[19:02:31] <waqas> ⍥ :/
[19:02:45] <waqas> Did that come out right? I see a box :)
[19:03:03] <Zash> looks like a Ö
[19:03:03] <darco> I see an umlaut
[19:03:05] <louiz> it's "nul"
[19:03:13] <louiz> in "exposant"
[19:03:39] <louiz> superior.
[19:03:41] <waqas> It's like :O, but oriented correctly ^^
[19:04:26] <Zash> ␖?
[19:04:48] <darco> SYN
[19:04:56] <louiz> nice :o
[19:04:59] <waqas> ␆
[19:05:03] <Zash> !
[19:05:04] <Zash> :)
[19:05:10] <darco> heh
[19:05:21] <louiz> How do you do superior letters?
[19:05:59] <Zash> Ctrl+Shift+U, then type the hex number
[19:06:04] <Zash> in gnome at least
[19:06:27] <louiz> in gtk
[19:06:31] <waqas> /me considers setting his unavailable presence text to ␄
[19:10:39] <Zash> ⏚
[19:11:54] <darco> ‽⌽♻
[19:12:24] <darco> ⏦
[19:21:46] <louiz> 癔
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[20:16:22] <dwd> louiz, poezio is your project?
[20:16:33] <louiz> dwd, yes
[20:17:22] <dwd> louiz, I like the concept - anonymous MUC access, like IRC. What library did you use for the screen handling?
[20:17:36] <louiz> ncurses
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[20:18:10] <louiz> I'm glad you like the concept :p
[20:18:34] <louiz> In future version users will be able to use their account (with roster, etc) though
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[20:18:47] <louiz> but it will still be anonymous etc by default
[20:21:14] <waqas> louiz: In chrome, it attempts to download xmpp.svg on visiting http://poezio.eu/en/ (This type of file can harm your computer, [...] [Save] [Discard])
[20:21:36] <johnny> hmm.. anonymous muc?
[20:21:42] <johnny> what's the difference?
[20:21:54] <johnny> hah.. the recycle symbol is a unicode thing.. that's funny
[20:22:04] <Tobias> johnny: you don't need an account to join mucs..like on IRC
[20:22:05] <louiz> waqas, yeah, I just had the issue today on chromium. I'll remove the .svg and put a png
[20:22:20] <johnny> Tobias, vs just using anonymous auth? what's the difference?
[20:22:29] <johnny> sasl anon or login anon
[20:22:36] <Tobias> johnny: it's standard anonymous auth
[20:22:37] <louiz> hu, poezio is using anonymous auth
[20:22:45] <waqas> louiz: Chrome works fine with svgs. I think it's the <object data='xmpp.svg'/> which is throwing it off. Use <img/>.
[20:22:46] <johnny> hmm, so what makes it different
[20:23:06] <Tobias> johnny: that by default it does anonymous auth where other clients by default ask for username/password
[20:23:10] <louiz> waqas, but <img /> with a .scg source doesn't work with firefox :p
[20:23:18] <waqas> It doesn't?
[20:23:19] <johnny> ah.. it's just a client then
[20:23:30] <louiz> waqas, I don't think
[20:24:13] <waqas> That's surprising
[20:25:09] <jonas> think there should be a type='image/svg+xml' in that <object/> tag
[20:25:24] <louiz> oh
[20:25:56] <louiz> waqas, could you reload the page and check if it's fixed?
[20:26:56] <waqas> louiz: Your server is sending Content-Type: application/octet-stream. That could be a problem.
[20:27:22] <waqas> Not fixed. Still the same.
[20:27:30] <louiz> ok, strange
[20:27:44] <louiz> well, it might be lighttpd fault's, too
[20:27:53] <waqas> And it isn't the tags, because visiting the image URL directly has the same problem. I bet it's the content-type.
[20:28:10] <Zash> huh
[20:28:15] <Zash> SVG?
[20:28:25] <Zash> XHTML + SVG = Win!
[20:28:43] <jonas> yah, you can just copy-paste the SVG into the document
[20:28:43] <louiz> ok, lighttpd conf doesn't have any content-type defined for .svg files
[20:29:02] <Zash> http://zash.se/ \o/
[20:29:07] <waqas> Zash: HTML5 has much simpler SVG support :)
[20:29:18] <Zash> waqas: and much less support
[20:29:31] <Zash> waqas: http://html5.zash.se/zash.se.index.html
[20:29:31] <waqas> Zash: Oh?
[20:29:38] <Zash> unless I've broken it
[20:29:56] <dwd> Zash, But it's got a lot of momentum behind it, so I'd expect support to catch up fast.
[20:30:39] <Zash> dwd: and way to much hype ...
[20:31:28] <dwd> Zash, But hype begats momentum, so that's not altogether bad.
[20:32:04] <waqas> Zash: You are right about it not working in current browsers.
[20:33:02] <Zash> waqas: and strict XML is moar win than the relaxed (retarded) html parsing rules
[20:34:05] <waqas> Zash: HTML5 you generate can be as strict as you like.
[20:34:17] <Zash> waqas: yes, the XHTML profile :)
[20:34:40] <Zash> orwhatever
[20:35:00] <waqas> HTML5 parsing rules are not relaxed by any means. Not having ambiguity was one of the goals. Read the parsing section of the spec.
[20:35:28] <Zash> s/5//
[20:35:29] <Zash> SGML
[20:35:40] <Zash> lets you get away with horrible code :(
[20:36:04] <waqas> XHTML isn't related to SGML? :)
[20:36:30] <MattJ> I'm afraid I'm with Zash, but you know that already :)
[20:36:43] <MattJ> RIP XHTML2 :(
[20:36:48] <Zash> MattJ: +1
[20:37:13] <Zash> wait, did I just +1 on you +1-ing me?
[20:37:27] <waqas> Good riddance. It went where the semantic web did.
[20:38:26] <Zash> :(
[20:39:12] <dwd> waqas, Don't say that around danbri.
[20:39:13] <Zash> gawd damn apps
[20:40:20] <waqas> dwd: I do enjoy a good war.
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[20:42:00] <waqas> I'm not taking the side of loose parsing mind. Most HTML I ever wrote or generated with scripts would probably be parsable with an XML parser.
[20:42:45] <Zash> /me lieks haml \o/
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[20:47:10] <johnny> haml is ok
[20:47:31] <johnny> waqas, the semantic web is still getting started
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[20:47:47] <johnny> they were just far future thinkers..
[20:48:11] <johnny> look at nepomuk and tracker.. it's coming to the desktop finally
[20:48:23] <waqas> johnny: Sure, it looks like a great idea in theory.
[20:48:50] <johnny> it's not in theory
[20:48:52] <johnny> it's in practice
[20:49:16] <waqas> Depends on what you mean by it. I'm more annoyed at e.g., RDF.
[20:49:17] <johnny> just not widespread practice
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[20:49:33] <johnny> but it looks like it will be all over the linux desktop
[20:49:34] <waqas> i.e., the way it was being practiced, not the theory.
[20:49:52] <johnny> and on maemo/meego devices
[20:50:25] <louiz> waqas, http://poezio.eu is it now fixed? :p
[20:50:38] <MattJ> Not for me
[20:50:44] <louiz> :(
[20:50:49] <MattJ> and I'm not using Chrome :)
[20:50:55] <louiz> what are you using?
[20:50:59] <waqas> It isn't fixed.
[20:51:00] <MattJ> Epiphany
[20:51:04] <louiz> I added the mime type in the configuration
[20:51:09] <louiz> ok, I'll just leave the .png.
[20:51:15] <johnny> epiphany is almost good enough ..
[20:51:18] <waqas> louiz: I still get Content-Type: application/octet-stream
[20:51:22] <MattJ> It says: File Type: “unknown”.
[20:51:30] <louiz> ooh.
[20:51:51] <louiz> too bad
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[20:53:20] <MattJ> Gah, I keep thinking this is the Prosody MUC - I can't get used to the interesting discussion happening here :)
[20:53:26] <dwd> MattJ, I always meant to give Epiphany a serious go. Mainly because I could extend it with Python.
[20:53:40] <MattJ> dwd, don't bother, they removed that feature :/
[20:53:53] <dwd> Oh?
[20:54:04] <MattJ> Broke all the existing extensions, the new system uses Javascript but seems hardly documented
[20:54:17] <Zash> MattJ: hahahahha
[20:54:18] <Zash> srsly?
[20:54:23] <MattJ> Really
[20:54:39] <MattJ> I switched to Chrome for a while in protest
[20:54:55] <MattJ> that ended badly, and I'm back - Epiphany seems to be the only browser I'm compatible with
[20:55:17] <dwd> See, I used to use Galeon, and I liked that, but it never quite worked after a while.
[20:55:20] <Zash> Oh, Epiphany the browser. I thougt of Empathy
[20:55:29] <dwd> I had Galeon setup *exactly* how I wanted.
[20:55:36] <dwd> Never got Firefox even close.
[20:55:50] <Zash> uzbl anyone?
[20:56:12] <johnny> i'm not nerdy enough for uzbl i bet
[20:56:25] <johnny> plus it's hard to trust anything developed by arch folks initally
[20:57:08] <louiz> (and I remove the .svg file completly, the png is used instead, thanks for the feedbacks :p)
[20:57:10] <Zash> damn ubuntu broke my firefox keyring integration :(
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