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[08:30:31] <Kev> !version jabberes.org
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[08:32:51] <Kev> !version jabberes.org
[08:32:55] <Kanchil> Kev: jabberes.org is running ejabberd version 2.1.3 on unix/linux 2.6.26
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[15:58:15] <Kev> ping
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[16:01:06] <dwd> .
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[16:04:23] <draco> hello everyone
[16:06:05] <draco> Does anyone know why jabber.org room configuration no longer can save the affiliation of the new admin/owner?
[16:06:37] <petermount> I think jabber.org's been rebooted several times today which might explain that - not sure though...
[16:07:08] <draco> Example,yesterday i add new admin to the room,and just now when ther server restarted,the affiliation is no longer as an admin
[16:07:32] <draco> *ther=the
[16:07:37] <dwd> draco, Affiliation or Role - just to be clear.
[16:07:38] <Kevmin> Persistent room?
[16:07:48] <draco> It is
[16:08:28] <draco> Role i mean, an admin/moderator back to member again once the server rebooted
[16:08:49] <draco> I'm from indonesia@conference.jabber.org
[16:09:24] <dwd> M-Link won't persist the role of a member, but it should persist the affiliation.
[16:09:41] <draco> I need to add the jid manually everytime the server rebooted
[16:13:01] <draco> The jid that was added before change to M-Link,still remain in the room configuration,but newly added jid as admin and owner won't remain in the room config after the server rebooted
[16:13:42] <dwd> That's interesting.
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[16:15:39] <draco> now also i can not ban a user direcly from room user list,need to manually add the jid to the ban list,sometimes really hard if i use mobile client,but its not a problem when i use PC client
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[16:30:54] <draco> Kevmin: have you use mobile phone to be online in jabber before?
[16:32:35] <draco> Did anyone ever try online in jabber using mobile clients?
[16:33:25] <draco> If you do,try to ban someone in the room directly from the room user list
[16:34:27] <draco> I use bombus,bombusmod,still same. .can't ban directly from room user list..can only be done by adding the jid manually to ban list
[16:35:03] <draco> Sometimes irritating to do so
[16:35:28] <draco> especially when the room attacked by spammer
[16:35:47] <dwd> Well, there's kick and ban - if "ban directly from room user list" means kick, then this is not the same as a ban, by intention.
[16:36:17] <draco> It is ban,i know what a ban is
[16:36:33] <draco> I can kick,but not ban
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[16:37:10] <draco> Please,if anyone wants to know,please try using mobile clients
[16:39:42] <draco> Regarding this ban issue,i think this is the second time i inform here
[16:40:00] <draco> Please note
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[16:42:13] <louiz> It just depends on the mobile client you're using, no? :/
[16:44:43] <draco> Banning using bot also can not
[16:45:03] <draco> Come to indonesia@conference.jabber.org now,i show you
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[16:45:50] <Kevmin> draco: If you give us the XML that's not working, we might be able to tell you what's wrong with it.
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[16:46:59] <draco> my client does not have xml console
[16:47:11] <draco> Come to indonesia room please
[16:47:59] <draco> Just see what happen
[16:48:43] <Kev> There won't be anything to see.
[16:49:46] <draco> I'm going to show you,when i ban a user using bot,i doesn't work,although the bot is an admin,maybe you would understand what i mean
[16:51:15] <Kevmin> Unless you can tell me what XML the bot sends, I can't really help.
[16:51:23] <draco> Treebilou: tero,u there?
[16:52:13] <draco> Treebilou: please come,i need ur help to tell to these peoples
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[16:53:36] <draco> I told u Kevmin,now i can not send u the xml,my client does not have the xml console
[16:55:56] <draco> Seems nobody cares :-\
[16:56:17] <Kevmin> draco: I think I know what's wrong, I think it's a client bug, but we can't know for sure.
[16:56:37] <Kevmin> You cannot ban someone by their nickname, you must always ban them by JID.
[16:56:54] <Kevmin> http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#ban
[16:56:56] <draco> If its a client bug,why i only encounter in jabber.org server?
[16:57:38] <Kevmin> I think some other servers illegally allow you to ban by nick as well.
[16:58:37] <draco> I don't know about that
[16:59:11] <draco> I only want to chat in convenient way,but seems its hard to chat in this server nowadays
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[17:08:14] <draco> It doesn't matter you guys believe me or not,i am just a common user,not a 'genius' like you guys,but i know if there's a problem,i can only report to you..you cares or not,its up to you,but you better investigate. To me,jabber.org with previous platform is more convenient to use,obviously. If now i complain,it means there's some problems to fixed. Somebody need to fix it ASAP, because if not,you'll dissapointing many mobile jabber user just like me
[17:08:50] <Kev> Yes, so you should report it to the Bombus devs.
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[17:13:30] <dwd> I could put affiliation management by nick into M-Link, but I'd feel a lot more comfortable if it were also in the XEP.
[17:13:40] <Kevmin> dwd: it's explicitly disallowed by the XEP.
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[17:14:07] <Kevmin> dwd: and I firmly believe that's the Right Thing.
[17:14:08] <dwd> Kev, Right. WHich makes it tricky.
[17:15:06] <dwd> draco, So the thing that needs "fixing" is the XEP, or the client.
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[17:15:58] <dwd> draco, For one thing, there's a tricky case for a fully anonymous room - since the client mustn't know the real jids, we couldn't ban them, for fear of revealing them.
[17:16:17] <dwd> draco, And yet, for any other case, the client knows the real jid (and so can use that directly).
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[17:19:51] <draco .> dwd: please come to indonesia
[17:21:35] <draco .> You want to investigate or not. .
[17:30:29] <draco .> Now i banning jids using bot with full user JID,not nick
[17:30:33] <Kev> You said that the same thing happens with the bot - ask the bot owner to get the XML that it sends.
[17:30:38] <Kev> Yes, and does it now work?
[17:30:49] <draco .> Come i show u now
[17:31:00] <draco .> The jid still can enter the room
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[17:53:08] <draco .> Kev: now come to xmpp@conference.xmpp.web.id if you want to know the bot working or not
[17:54:18] <Kev> I'm sure it does work on some servers.
[17:54:31] <draco .> Kevmin saw just now,in jabber.org i can't ban user using fully jid
[17:54:42] <Kev> The question is whether what it sends is legal or not - and unless I can see the XML, I can't say that.
[17:54:57] <Kev> But given that all the clients that are known to do the right thing work...
[17:55:12] <draco .> You said banning using only nick is illegal,right?
[17:55:24] <Kev> I did.
[17:55:31] <draco .> Now im going to show u the legal one
[17:55:39] <Kev> The XML?
[17:55:40] <draco .> Come now
[17:55:56] <draco .> Fully jid banning using bot commands
[17:56:14] <Kev> Work out how to get the XML the bot is sending.
[17:56:19] <Kev> It's a waste of time otherwise.
[17:56:39] <johnny> should be in your server logs somewhere
[17:56:45] <draco .> Not a waste to prove that im not lying
[17:56:45] <johnny> or make it log to the server
[17:56:53] <johnny> the xml is the proof
[17:57:17] <draco .> Later when im online through pc i send u the damn XML
[17:57:20] <johnny> the interface used might be nick, but internally it must send jid
[17:57:32] <johnny> then come back when you have it
[17:57:35] <Kev> johnny: There's no way we'd want to take the performance hit of logging streams on jbaber.org
[17:57:42] <johnny> Kev, not you.. his bot
[17:57:56] <Kev> Ok then :)
[17:58:04] <draco .> How hard headed are you guys. .
[17:58:13] <johnny> how hard headed are you is the question :)
[17:58:25] <johnny> you want help, you're asking us, we require the xml
[17:58:28] <johnny> come back when you have it
[17:58:31] <dwd> draco ., Look, as the team lead for the product you're claiming is buggy, I can happily agree that there may be bugs.
[17:58:37] <draco .> im tryin to tell u there is a problem
[17:58:47] <johnny> without the xml is not not solvable
[17:58:50] <dwd> draco ., But without knowing precisely what your bot (or whatever) is sending, I can't tell what that bug is.
[17:59:41] <draco .> Based on the illegal thing that u said before,now i'm trying to show u that im using the legal procedures
[18:00:10] <Kev> draco .: Which requires the XML.
[18:00:19] <dwd> draco ., Right, but the only thing that matters is what XML is sent, and whether that matches to what the XEP says it should be.
[18:00:36] <draco .> I promise i will send u later
[18:01:03] <dwd> draco ., That's great. Then we can do something about it, figure out why it's not working, and figure out how to make it work.
[18:01:52] <dwd> draco ., If it's really hard to do this, I can spin up a test server you can do things against, and log the XML on this side.
[18:02:13] <draco .> I only ask u to join,not for long,only 1 minutes
[18:02:31] <draco .> Please,for the sake of jabber
[18:02:42] <dwd> draco ., Yeah, but looking at *another* server won't help me at all.
[18:02:49] <dwd> draco ., I entirely believe it might work there.
[18:03:16] <dwd> draco ., My problem is that without the XML, I can't even begin to guess why.
[18:04:07] <draco .> My problem now,i cant access xml tonight,its almost 2am here,and im only using mobile phones to tell u this
[18:04:22] <Kev> There's no rush.
[18:04:31] <draco .> And you wouldn't even want to join,to see what am i saying
[18:05:24] <dwd> draco ., No, I understand what you're saying.
[18:05:38] <draco .> No u did not until u see it
[18:05:40] <dwd> draco ., I just don't see why seeing it will help.
[18:06:11] <draco .> I'm tired of this
[18:06:22] <draco .> So Hard headed
[18:06:27] <draco .> Nevermind
[18:06:41] <draco .> I'll just go with it
[18:07:00] <draco .> Its your server,not mine
[18:07:13] <draco .> I'm trying to help by reporting it
[18:07:40] <draco .> You wouldn't even want to see it at all
[18:08:16] <draco .> No use then
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[20:16:19] <alkino> about jingle socks5 bytestream, there is no mention of the "cid" attribute of the candidate element in the XEP. how
[20:16:19] <alkino> are we supposed to generate it ?
[20:16:28] <alkino> sorry :p
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[20:21:53] <dwd> alkino, I think those would be covered in XEP-0166 rather than XEP-0260
[20:22:06] <alkino> hein ?
[20:22:12] <alkino> cid is only about socks5 ;)
[20:22:13] <dwd> alkino, Except that in XEP-0166, <candidate/> elements have an id attribute, not a cid attribute...
[20:22:53] <dwd> Oh, yes, I see. Different namespace.
[20:25:02] <dwd> It looks to me to be an opaque identifier, generated on first use.
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