Logs for jdev

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[08:58:28] <Pinky> Hi all
[08:58:31] <Pinky> good morning
[08:58:46] <Pinky> all Jabbim domains have problems with google s2s too
[08:58:47] <Kev> Morning.
[08:58:56] <Pinky> only for info
[08:58:58] <Kev> What software are you running?
[08:59:01] <Pinky> ejabberd
[08:59:23] <Kev> It *looks* like it might be a problem that's limited to ejabberd.
[08:59:37] <Kev> There was one report of problems from a Prosody user, but t looked like a different issue.
[08:59:40] <Pinky> no dialback connection from other site
[08:59:48] <Kev> I know that doesn't help, but just for information.
[08:59:53] <Kev> Google do know about this.
[09:00:00] <Pinky> know?
[09:00:17] <Pinky> ok...
[09:00:41] <Pinky> this errors are new
[09:00:49] <Pinky> no upgrade at our side
[09:01:08] <Pinky> google change s2s implementation, maybe
[09:01:28] <Kev> Yes, it seemed to start hitting people a couple of weeks ago, and anecdotally is getting worse.
[09:01:52] <Pinky> strange is, we have problem old 4 weeks with only one domain, jabber.cz
[09:02:11] <Pinky> 2-3 days ago with all our domains
[09:02:15] <Pinky> strange
[09:02:19] <Pinky> and crazy
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[09:02:27] <Pinky> and no google help line :-D
[09:02:33] <Pinky> nu support email, nothing
[09:03:13] <Asterix> I still use ejabberd and I'm able to see gmail contacts
[09:03:15] <Pinky> maybe google have many own users and creating own ICQ or MSN like network :-D
[09:03:48] <Pinky> for me it's looks as ban list, no s2s error
[09:04:14] <Pinky> spammers?
[09:04:21] <Pinky> from our servers?
[09:04:32] <Pinky> we disable inband registration...
[09:04:33] <Kev> I doubt it's spam-related.
[09:04:40] <Kev> I don't know, though.
[09:05:00] <Pinky> little servers are not in this problem... maybe spam related...
[09:07:23] <Kev> I'm sure people on smaller servers have reported it, too.
[09:07:26] <Kev> But maybe you're right.
[09:12:37] <Pinky> maybe it's time for Google Talk blocking from XMPP Federation
[09:14:09] <Pinky> today our servers, next week your server
[09:14:58] <Kev> Given that it only seems to be ejabberd, I'd suspect that it's just a dialback issue.
[09:15:20] <Pinky> maybe yes
[09:15:33] <Pinky> don't be evil :-D
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[09:22:13] <ermine> Kev: in operators@ there was a complain about prosody too
[09:22:37] <Kev> ermine: Yes, I saw one (I mentioned this a few minutes ago) - but it seemed to be a different issue.
[09:25:15] <Pinky> ermine: jabber.ru is ok?
[09:25:16] <ermine> that it's google's issue
[09:28:26] <john> what kind of gtalk issues are people experiencing?
[09:28:49] <john> I can see contacts, see them changing status
[09:29:01] <john> but when I try to write to them, I eventually get a remote-server-not-found
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[09:29:56] <dwd> So gmail->you is working, but you->gmail is bust.
[09:30:09] <ermine> it seems it is a subnetwork problem - not *all* their network input/output ip behave such, only a subset causes problems
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[09:31:48] <ermine> please change geo location to test it :-))
[09:32:36] <john> np. who do I ask to sponsor the flight? Cisco? Google? Process One?
[09:33:32] <ermine> dapra
[09:34:02] <john> wait no, I'd need to geographically move the server. it's a virtual instance. anybody got a xen dom0 to host it? :)
[09:34:57] <Pinky> czech republic is not good for hosting
[09:35:10] <Pinky> where is google connection ok?
[09:35:16] <Pinky> zimbabwe?
[09:35:17] <Pinky> :-D
[09:35:33] <ermine> it is ok where jorg works
[09:35:43] <ermine> move all there
[09:35:44] <john> hm, I'm running ejabberd 2.0.1. I was pretty sure it was a 2.1.x. I'll have to try with the latest.
[09:35:58] <Pinky> john: i have latest
[09:36:07] <Pinky> john: it's not solution
[09:36:53] <john> ok
[09:37:00] <Pinky> i like hot weather
[09:37:04] <Pinky> thailand is ok?
[09:37:22] <Pinky> anyone have server at thailand?
[09:38:38] <Pinky> and fake google SRV records?
[09:38:49] <Pinky> with "good" ip's?
[09:39:14] <Pinky> it's not solution for own domains at google...
[09:40:20] <ermine> it is not related with your ip, to be exact
[09:40:33] <ermine> google hash many-many ips
[09:40:51] <ermine> you need simply guess which ones are good for s2s
[09:41:01] <ermine> *has
[09:41:32] <Pinky> yes, i know
[09:41:33] <ermine> but geo might to help to guess good ips, i think
[09:42:07] <Pinky> and import to dns gmail.com fake zone ...
[09:42:29] <Pinky> we need only "good" google ip addresses
[09:44:37] <ermine> ask Kev which ip they see in logs
[09:45:18] <MattJ> FWIW I have perfect s2s to Google, I have lots of difficulty connecting as a client though
[09:45:50] <ermine> MattJ: IP? which ip, sister?
[09:46:47] <MattJ> Yay, I'm in via c2s on talk.google.com \o/
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[09:47:18] <ermine> ah c2s
[09:47:52] <MattJ> My s2s is still fine it seems
[09:47:54] <ermine> give me somebody please google's ip with working s2s, i'll put it in /etc/hosts
[09:47:54] <Tobias> ermine: i have successful s2s to 74.125.47.125 for example
[09:47:55] <MattJ> > hosts["matthewwild.co.uk"].s2sout["gmail.com"].conn:ip() | Result: 74.125.47.125
[09:48:26] <Tobias> MattJ: how dare you connecting to the same google ip ;)
[09:48:37] <MattJ> It's mine!
[09:49:01] <Tobias> Pft, it's supposed to be their s2s ip for gsoc students ;)
[09:49:24] <MattJ> ^^
[09:51:09] <MattJ> ermine, put it in /etc/hosts for which address?
[10:02:27] <MattJ> Ha
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[10:02:44] <MattJ> My connection to gmail.com was established over a week ago
[10:06:33] <Zash> Oh lawd
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[10:18:19] <nabatt> oh my god! i'm connected s2s to gmail
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[10:19:49] <nabatt> i'm just add to hosts lines 74.125.47.125 xmpp-server.l.google.com 74.125.47.125 xmpp-server1.l.google.com 74.125.47.125 xmpp-server2.l.google.com 74.125.47.125 xmpp-server3.l.google.com 74.125.47.125 xmpp-server4.l.google.com
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[10:20:18] <nabatt> Kev: is this information helpful?
[10:21:05] <nabatt> I think that ejabberd does not trying all possibles it always uses xmpp-server.l.google.com
[10:21:55] <nabatt> which resolvs to 74.125.45.125
[10:22:45] <nabatt> add on each server in jabber cluster
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[10:33:52] <nabatt> hey, does it helps anyone?
[10:41:50] <Tobias> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/MultiMessenger-Spam-von-1-1-1046851.html it's german but i supposed google translate turns it into something slightly readable in your language of choice ;)
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[10:42:46] <Tobias> seems more related to 1&1 than to general jabber though
[10:46:08] <Kev> I'm impressed that one of the XSF members reapplying is sufficiently current that they think we're still the JSF :)
[10:53:05] <Tobias> yeah...on those it's pretty simple to answer the yes/no question :P
[10:53:25] <Tobias> i mean the name change was what? 5-6 years ago
[10:53:38] <Kev> A while, certainly.
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[10:57:55] <Alex> ;-)
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[10:58:04] <Zash> Hah
[10:58:27] <ermine> MattJ: sorry, i walked out a bit
[10:58:39] <ermine> MattJ: my hack works, thanks a lot
[10:58:45] <MattJ> :)
[11:00:09] <Zash> There's a hack for that™
[11:00:54] <Zash> (heard in #maemo iirc)
[11:04:59] <dwd> Tobias, JSF -> XSF was completing when I started, 2006.
[11:07:48] <Alex> I think some of teh old members are still used to JSF, I made this mistake often in the past
[11:09:26] <dwd> Alex, These young 'uns today. They don't remember the old days.
[11:09:53] <Alex> dwd: I agree
[11:11:02] <Alex> does anybody know if there are clients which use Jingle for bytestream and IBB file transfer negotiation?
[11:11:35] <Alex> I am currently working on file transfer stuff and fallback to IBB is much easier with Jingle, so I would like to use jingle
[11:11:44] <dwd> Jingle-FT? I thought there were, but not in common use.
[11:12:00] <Alex> on the otehr hand if no existing clients use jingle all users will complain that it does not work with client X and Y
[11:13:09] <Alex> dwd: XEP-0260 and XEP-0261 for now
[11:13:28] <Link Mauve> There is a gsoc for Jingle-FT for Gajim.
[11:14:22] <Asterix> and for mcabber too
[11:17:45] <Zash> mcabber too?
[11:20:50] <Alex> still not may clients, they will ask for Spark, Psi, Pandion, Swift ...
[11:21:13] <Kev> Swift doesn't do any f/t. When it does, it'll almost certainly be Jingle.
[11:45:33] <Alex> I think I will start with jingle as well and don't care about interopt. Otherwise we will stay forever with the old file transfer stuff
[11:45:49] <Kev> Right.
[11:48:35] <dwd> Alex, BTW, meaning to ask you - Matrix comes with UI components, doesn't it? Or not?
[11:51:05] <Alex> dwd: there is a UI component for xdata forms which will be extended also for commands. But there are no other UI components yet. With MatriX I had more UI components but they were not popular, because the most developers want to create their own UI stuff.
[11:51:28] <Alex> dwd: I mean with agsXMPPI had more.....
[11:52:05] <dwd> Right, well, the xdata forms was one case where our customer really wanted a pre-built component, so that's good. :-)
[11:53:24] <Alex> ya, for xdata it makes a lot of sense. TTobias what is the state of your xdata form designer? Then I don't have to cretae my own ;-)
[11:54:18] <Tobias> Alex: well...the designer works so far, you can create design your forms and it saves it nearly bare XEP-0004 style to disk :)
[11:57:23] <Tobias> Alex: other than that it hasn't been worked on for years ;)
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[12:07:33] <john> ok, hosts hack works for me (tm) too
[12:08:46] <Kev> So is this as simple as ejabberd's DNS resolution being broken?
[12:11:17] <nabatt> Kev: not fully broken, but not fully as in RFC
[12:18:15] <ermine> no
[12:18:23] <ermine> dns works perfectly
[12:19:16] <ermine> Kev: google opens a socket, receives first stanza of dialback and closes a stream
[12:19:41] <ermine> where there is dns?
[12:19:47] <MattJ> ermine, what address does "xmpp-server.l.google.com" resolve to for your server?
[12:19:56] <Tobias> ermine: so if you resolve all the DNS records possible for gtalk you never get that IP?
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[12:20:35] <ermine> MattJ: dunno, now it resolves to that ip which you told me
[12:21:11] <ermine> as i said very above it's problem of subset of google network
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[12:21:50] <MattJ> Right, but if it resolves to that IP, that's the one ejabberd should have been using already
[12:22:36] <ermine> i thought to use wirking IP after that one guy said that he saws remote-server-not-found from different google's hosts and not all of them
[12:31:44] <MattJ> Aha, I just noticed that the person on operators@ who had issues Prosody<->gmail.com is 2 versions out of date :)
[12:32:11] <MattJ> and I've worked on the DNS code since then, so that may explain that
[12:32:38] <Kev> MattJ: It doesn't seem to be strictly DNS, but rather not falling back to the other SRV records if the connection to the first one fails to establish a valid stream.
[12:32:50] <Kev> Although realise that I'm only reading the same messages you are :)
[12:33:57] <MattJ> Kev, indeed, 0.6.1 might have had issues retrieving and ordering the SRV records
[12:34:12] <MattJ> I don't think the retry logic has changed - pretty sure that works, I've seen it in action
[12:35:07] <Tobias> MattJ: OT: is waqas online for you?
[12:35:29] <MattJ> Tobias, yes - but he's on his mobile
[12:35:38] <dwd> Presence leak!!
[12:35:40] <Tobias> MattJ: yeah..but not responding it seems
[12:35:42] <MattJ> Hiding from the rain in a post office
[12:36:10] <Tobias> MattJ: that's what he told me too..maybe the rain is blocking his wireless now
[12:38:47] <MattJ> Tobias, just to complete the leak, his caps hash is 66wMDftH6YHb2lPh51XWLR4zFMg=
[12:39:30] <Tobias> yeah..and last status from: 13:09:32
[12:39:37] <Tobias> -)
[12:40:00] <MattJ> priority 0
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[12:56:01] <MattJ> We need to have some discussion so waqas doesn't discover the leak
[12:57:03] <Tobias> name a topic :)
[12:57:39] <Kev> Swift being great.
[12:57:43] <dwd> MattJ, Or you could clear the history of the room. Checkbox in the room config.
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[12:58:10] <MattJ> dwd, I'm trying hard not to implement that as a config option in Prosody :)
[12:58:15] <MattJ> I'd rather see ad-hoc working
[12:58:35] <dwd> MattJ, Yeah, military/intel requirement.
[12:59:08] <MattJ> I can imagine :)
[13:00:08] <Tobias> dwd: but that wouldn't prevent it from showing up in the web logs right?
[13:00:55] <MattJ> Tobias, I can fix that ;)
[13:01:16] <dwd> Tobias, No, but those places aren't that big on web logs. :-)
[13:01:41] <Tobias> dwd: yeah..not surprising
[13:01:48] <dwd> MattJ, And yes, you can, which is why our archiving solution operates over a network socket to partition access.
[13:01:59] <Tobias> dwd: but you have a firehose plugin to wikileaks, right? :)
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[13:32:24] <Zash> :D
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[13:40:09] <ermine> dwd: does m-link switch to another srv host if was unable to continue dialback with previous one?
[13:48:43] <dwd> ermine, I'm not actually sure, without looking. Not my area of the code.
[13:49:21] <ermine> nice answer
[13:51:15] <ermine> rfc xmpp does not states when you can say that remote server is not found when you use srv
[13:57:37] <dwd> ermine, No, but it makes sense to do so. Hard to argue that the remote server isn't found if you've not finished looking.
[13:59:15] <Zash> <error:remote-server-didn't-call-back>
[13:59:41] <Kev> Hmm, the 3.2.1 does look like it's saying you try all the SRV records before giving up.
[14:00:20] <ermine> error:this-srv-is-broken
[14:01:09] <ermine> Kev: hint: after opening the socket
[14:01:28] <ermine> at any srv whether it is broken or not
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[14:02:19] <dwd> ermine, I agree with your assertion that the RFC doesn't explicitly tell you to continue with SRV lookup if the TCP socket can be opened but the stream cannot be.
[14:02:50] <dwd> ermine, But I think it makes sense to do so anyway.
[14:03:30] <Kev> Right, it's not clear what 'connect' means in 3.2.1. You could easily claim that if the TCP socket's open, that's enough.
[14:03:52] <dwd> FWIW, that's what the discussions about AF_NAME and SRV have been assuming.
[14:03:53] <Kev> Or you could claim that unless the XMPP stream's established and authenticated, it's not connected.
[14:04:17] <dwd> And there's certainly an argument that if you get an explicit error, then you stop.
[14:06:31] <ermine> what is explicit error?
[14:06:37] <ermine> stream:error?
[14:06:40] <Kev> Yes.
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[14:13:22] <dwd> ermine, Well, maybe... I think you then get into the situation where different errors need different handling.
[14:14:49] <Zash> isn't the same to the client?
[14:14:59] <Zash> "the server couldn't deliver the message"
[14:15:48] <dwd> Zash, This being the point - at what point in the process do you say "OK, sorry, I can't do this".
[14:16:41] <dwd> I mean, if you connect to a SRV candidate successfully, and you start talking XMPP, and then get a system-shutdown, then do you continue onto the next cluster node?
[14:16:59] <Kev> dwd: Yeah, I'd say so :)
[14:17:08] <Kev> Although there's an argument for retrying the same one once.
[14:17:10] <dwd> Okay, what about a host-gone?
[14:17:19] <Kev> Retry the next node :)
[14:17:27] <dwd> Authentication failure?
[14:17:39] <Kev> Why not? :)
[14:17:58] <dwd> Because you believe you've contacted the remote host, but it's refused you.
[14:18:15] <Kev> Yeah, but it could be broken.
[14:18:36] <dwd> It'd be like someone asking to come into your house, and if you tell them no, they try the back door too.
[14:18:46] <Kev> You've not had that happen?
[14:19:11] <dwd> No, but I have seen someone do it to next door. Wasn't impressed.
[14:19:12] <Kev> "Would you like double-glazing?" 'No' *tries other door "Would you like double-glazing?"
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[14:20:14] <dwd> Anyway, we're server implementors, not double-glazing salesman, thank heavens.
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[14:21:13] <Guus> one might argue that the average client dev is comparable to a glazing salesman though...
[14:21:15] <Guus> /me hides
[14:21:43] <Guus> ah, s2s connections/
[14:22:00] <Guus> that'll teach me to not read up on the entire story before I post semi-witty remarks
[14:22:22] <dwd> Guus, You *aspire* to semi-witticisms.
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[14:22:55] <MattJ> :)
[14:23:02] <Guus> yes, that's the main reason for me lingering in this muc - I try to learn from the best
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[14:23:32] <dwd> Guus, And there's nobody as partially humorous as me, you know.
[14:23:48] <Guus> ...
[14:25:03] <Tobias> dwd: AF_NAME?
[14:26:01] <dwd> Name Based Sockets Draft: http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ubillos-name-based-sockets-01.txt Presentation: http://www.sics.se/~jav/ietf78/namebasedsockets-IETF78-apps.pdf
[14:26:11] <Zash> AF_INET
[14:26:22] <dwd> Tobias, Always worth listening into apparea, you know. :-)
[14:27:09] <Tobias> dwd: the Announce list is already pretty verbose to my mailbox
[14:28:19] <dwd> Tobias, Yeah, that's why I listen into apparea and have clever people do my filtering for me.
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[14:34:14] <Tobias> dwd: ahh..it's practically moving the all DNS stuff out of the applications into the OS's socket layer
[14:34:26] <Tobias> s/the all/all the/
[14:35:10] <Tobias> sure is a nice idea
[14:36:40] <dwd> Yes, and also insulating the application from IP level addressing, so that weird stuff™ like HIP can happen.
[14:37:14] <dwd> Since HIP can do [xep 198] stuff at the IP-ish layer.
[14:37:14] <Kanchil> dwd: XEP-0198: Stream Management is Standards Track (Draft, 2009-06-17) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0198.html
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[14:38:13] <dwd> Hmmm - does Kanchil respond to [id ubillos-name-based] things yet?
[14:38:32] <Kanchil> dwd: Sorry, I couldn't find what you were looking for.
[14:39:03] <dwd> Well, I was obviously looking for [id draft-ubillos-name-based-sockets-01], wasn't I?
[14:39:03] <Tobias> dwd: depends on the way it's done..i think resumption and throttling are bound to XMPP...sure one could also throttle by not reading anything anymore but that has some side effects
[14:39:03] <Kanchil> dwd: draft-ubillos-name-based-sockets-01: name based sockets (july 2010' day='12) See: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ubillos-name-based-sockets-01
[14:39:08] <Tobias> but i guess you mean acks
[14:39:09] <Tobias> ;)
[14:39:53] <dwd> Tobias, No, reattaching sessions.
[14:40:39] <dwd> Tobias, I remember someone explaining it all in Paris once. And describing the demo, which involved a "pocket" network and switchboarding laptops.
[14:41:30] <Tobias> aha
[14:42:48] <Tobias> hmm..i somehow need to find out how to prevent psi+ from catching the rectangular brackets as shortcuts :)
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[14:44:28] <Tobias> but sure would be nice to have resumption on a lower level..however how does it handle security so nobody can steal your session
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[18:16:03] <hawke > Good to read that there's at least a workaround for the gmail.com s2s problems
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[18:17:29] <MattJ> A possible workaround - I think someone on the list said it didn't work for them
[18:17:45] <MattJ> Though someone who didn't try it says it just started working again a few hours ago
[18:18:27] <hawke > er...someone who didn't try it??
[18:18:39] <hawke > brb
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[18:20:41] <MattJ> Someone who was having issues (and didn't try the workaround) said it started working again
[18:21:06] <hawke> Well, it definitely hasn't started working again.
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[18:23:00] <hawke> The workaround seems to have worked around though.
[18:24:19] <hawke> Not optimal of course, but…
[18:26:43] <hawke> …I can talk to my gmail.com contacts again, that’s what counts.
[18:29:02] <MattJ> :)
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