Logs for jabber

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[05:36:33] <klk> what's a good xmpp client for windows that supports BOSH?
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[06:54:03] <niekie> Greetings :)
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[08:39:26] <islevegan> greetings
[08:39:33] <Kev> Morning.
[08:40:52] <islevegan> aloha :-)
[08:42:30] <islevegan> what is the approximate amount of ram required for ejabberd?
[08:42:45] <islevegan> for a small number of users
[08:42:52] <Kev> It depends how many users you have, and whether you have pubsub enabled, in my experienc.
[08:42:56] <islevegan> like 10-20
[08:43:13] <Kev> Without pubsub, a small server (~20 users) should be fine in a couple of hundred meg.
[08:44:08] <Kev> The last small ejabberd server I adminned migrated a year and a bit back, so Nÿco probably has a better idea of modern requirements.
[08:44:29] <Kev> Nÿco?
[08:45:14] <islevegan> i have debian 5 with drupal 6 and would like to run ejabberd too, the virtual machine has 512mb ram
[08:45:47] <Kev> That sounds like a vast amount. As long as pubsub (and pep) were disabled, I didn't have problems with ejabberd memory usage on my box, and that's around 200meg ram.
[08:46:09] <waqas> Wow, 200megs... ^^
[08:46:10] <Kev> I have no idea what the footprint for drupal is, though.
[08:46:37] <Kev> waqas: actually, I think it was 90meg at the time I first installed an xmpp server on it.
[08:47:04] <waqas> Kev: Out of curiosity, what's the memory/user ratio for jabber.org?
[08:47:07] <Mati> The footprint of drupal is usually small, but can get *very* big for the cron-runs
[08:47:34] <Kev> waqas: initially, it's about 12k users for 8gig ram, but that grows over time - we're investigating that.
[08:48:23] <islevegan> hmm
[08:48:52] <islevegan> yeah, when i first started looking into ejabberd i tried to find system requirements listed, specifically ram
[08:48:54] <islevegan> but not to be found
[08:48:55] <islevegan> :-)
[08:49:03] <Kev> It depends heavily on a number of factors.
[08:49:18] <Kev> Back when I ran it, a single user server could use hundreds of meg if you enabled pep, for example.
[08:49:18] <islevegan> ok
[08:49:37] <islevegan> i don't know what pep or pubsub is, so i'm looking for that now online
[08:50:47] <Kev> PEP is a profile of pubsub - it's used for extended presence features, like user mood, user tune (what they're listening to), user tune, user activity, avatars, etc.
[08:51:12] <islevegan> ok
[08:51:18] <islevegan> understood, thanks for the explanation
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[09:08:29] <islevegan> i'm going over the ejabberd installation / configuration instructions to see if i did something wrong http://library.linode.com/communications/xmpp/ejabberd/debian-5-lenny
[09:14:40] <islevegan> 127.0.0.1 localhost.localdomain localhost 12.34.56.78 squire.ducklington.org squire <----this is their example. does one need to use a subdomain like that? and if i don't, what do i put in place of the "squire" at the end?
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[09:16:49] <islevegan> in other words, do i have to use a subdomain for ejabberd? i have my drupal installation responding to mydomain.com, port 80
[09:17:06] <Kev> You don't need a subdomain. I can't help you with ejabberd setup, though.
[09:18:57] <islevegan> is that outside the scope of this muc?
[09:19:33] <Kev> It's outside my expertise, I work on a different server project.
[09:19:46] <islevegan> ok, understood
[09:19:56] <islevegan> a different xmpp server?
[09:20:01] <Kev> Yes.
[09:20:08] <islevegan> which one?
[09:20:14] <Kev> Isode's M-Link.
[09:20:25] <islevegan> do you think it's better?
[09:20:43] <Kev> Answering that would hardly be unbiased.
[09:20:49] <islevegan> :-)
[09:21:04] <Kev> Developer in "thinks the projects they work for are the best" shocker.
[09:23:25] <Tobias> Kev: how is it to work on a server instead of a client? :)
[09:23:33] <Kev> 'instead'?
[09:23:51] <Tobias> s/instead/compared
[09:23:52] <islevegan> well, i got the impression that ejabberd is sorta more standards compliant and most open and such. kinda like Debian compared to RedHat or Suse
[09:24:09] <Tobias> ejabberd most standards compliant :D
[09:24:12] <Tobias> ?
[09:24:20] <islevegan> i could be wrong, i'm very new to this
[09:24:36] <islevegan> maybe ejabberd established the standards, more like
[09:24:43] <islevegan> not sure
[09:25:30] <islevegan> i saw good things about it online
[09:25:32] <islevegan> where i looked
[09:25:39] <islevegan> being very efficient and scalable
[09:25:40] <Kev> On the ejabberd website? :D
[09:25:42] <islevegan> scaleable
[09:25:51] <islevegan> maybe wikipedia and some others
[09:26:06] <Kev> Really, though, I don't think any of the main servers are particularly standards incompliant.
[09:26:45] <Kev> It'd be a bit odd to claim it drives the standards though - considering devs for two of the other servers are on the standards council ;)
[09:26:52] <islevegan> and most compatible and supporting the most cool stuff. i saw a table somewhere that showed things that i considered potentially interesting in the future.
[09:27:14] <Tobias> islevegan: iirc most of these tables get out of date pretty fast
[09:27:29] <islevegan> yeah, could be
[09:27:54] <Kev> islevegan: I'm not sure what you're looking to achieve, though - you're asking devs on competing projects what they think of ejabberd - and then telling them why ejabberd is the best.
[09:28:39] <islevegan> i'm mentioning my understanding, encouraging some useful dialogue, since my "information" is not based on much
[09:29:31] <islevegan> i hope to go with something that will be maintained and most likely to be supported and stay open and friendly
[09:29:31] <islevegan> :-)
[09:29:39] <Tobias> islevegan: i mean most of them are open source, so if you have some time the best is just to test them
[09:29:42] <Kev> open = open source, or open standard?
[09:29:50] <islevegan> both, ideally
[09:30:03] <Kev> Then your options are basically ejabberd or Prosody.
[09:30:19] <Kev> Of those, Prosody is the more 'open' project, and ejabberd is the older.
[09:30:56] <islevegan> yeah, i was coming across some info about prosody this evening
[09:31:15] <islevegan> ejabberd seems to be maintained in debian repositories, possibly others
[09:32:28] <islevegan> i'm reading about prosody now
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[09:36:36] <islevegan> Prosody has this license, which dictates no derivative works. http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/us/ <http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/us/>
[09:36:44] <islevegan> that doesn't sound good
[09:37:02] <islevegan> from the perspective of wanting openness
[09:37:30] <islevegan> hmm
[09:37:33] <islevegan> so does ejabberd
[09:37:34] <islevegan> curious
[09:37:44] <islevegan> oh wait
[09:37:45] <islevegan> wrong
[09:37:58] <islevegan> forget all that, duh
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[09:52:56] <NiGHt-LEshiY> hi there
[09:53:13] <NiGHt-LEshiY> I have a problem with connecting to rooms when using Google accounts
[09:53:39] <NiGHt-LEshiY> Also I have many reconnections to room... It sucks
[09:56:42] <Kev> Yes, Google are aware of the bug, I don't know if they're fixing it.
[09:58:04] <NiGHt-LEshiY> Hm... Should I ask them?
[09:58:55] <Kev> Up to you.
[09:59:16] <Kev> The bug is that they're retransmitting the "join room" stanza every 5 minutes, so every five minutes jabber.org will re-join you to the rooms.
[09:59:42] <NiGHt-LEshiY> Oh god
[09:59:55] <NiGHt-LEshiY> Ok, I'll contact them
[10:00:41] <NiGHt-LEshiY> again =(
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[10:13:26] <islevegan> could one use this notation for the hosts file? 183.183.183.183 mydomain.com mydomain
[10:13:48] <Mati> islevegan, yes
[10:13:52] <islevegan> ok, thanks
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[11:06:26] <islevegan> good night all
[11:06:35] <Kev> gn
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[13:15:34] <shenky.meena1989> hi
[13:17:19] <shenky.meena1989> rasha.ali76:
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[13:18:51] <shenky.meena1989> hai sriya girl r u here?
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[13:19:10] <rasha.ali76> Hi again shenky
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[13:20:24] <shenky.meena1989> hi how r u?
[13:21:02] <Kev> Hi guys. This is a Jabber help room - if you'd like casual chat, there are other rooms like chat@conference.jabber.org or (I think) talk.conference.jabber.org
[13:21:02] <rasha.ali76> Yep this is rasha how r u today
[13:22:20] <shenky.meena1989> hows ur mood today?
[13:22:28] <rasha.ali76> Im great and u
[13:24:20] <shenky.meena1989> fine yar, u know what hpn last nit?rasha.ali76:
[13:24:44] <rasha.ali76> Im sorry about yesterday i was mad
[13:25:23] <rasha.ali76> Im always here
[13:25:44] <Mati> "what hpn last nit?" - please tell me this is a joke
[13:26:15] <Mati> shenky.meena1989, rasha.ali76, please note what Kev said
[13:26:29] <shenky.meena1989> its ok sriya girl hahahahaa /don't be today
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[13:27:56] <shenky.meena1989> Mati:
[13:31:43] <shenky.meena1989> rasha.ali76:
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[13:54:31] <truman3339> m
[13:54:48] <truman3339> hiiiiiii
[13:54:50] <Mati> hi
[13:55:18] <truman3339> nimbuzz
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[14:13:43] <rasha.ali76> Shenky r u here
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[14:17:23] <rasha.ali76> Is anybody here
[14:18:26] <naw> yes, some of us are here
[14:19:18] <rasha.ali76> This rasha who is this
[14:20:03] <naw> I'm one of the admins of this room
[14:20:19] <naw> this room is for help about jabber/xmpp
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[14:28:20] <shenky.meena1989> hi rasha
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[14:46:12] <clinton39696> can i modify chatroom configuration after it was initially created?
[14:46:24] <Kev> Yes.
[14:47:29] <clinton39696> wow, that was fast thanks. Its probably client dependent. I havent found the option in pidgin yet.
[14:48:23] <naw> use /config
[14:48:26] <Kev> I think you want /conf, /config or /configure
[14:48:29] <Kev> I forget which.
[14:48:33] <Kev> Ah, but naw doesn't :)
[14:48:36] <naw> :D
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[14:54:14] <clinton39696> ah cool. worked perfectly... thanks again
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[15:01:53] <shenky.meena1989> can i join orkut frns with it?
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[15:03:06] <shenky.meena1989> pls?
[15:05:44] <Mati> shenky.meena1989, with what?
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[16:05:17] <rasha.ali76> This is rasha
[16:06:36] <rasha.ali76> Say anything
[16:08:44] <Mati> rasha.ali76, this is a jabber help channel, not a casual chat room
[16:08:50] <Mati> if you have questions about jabber - ask
[16:09:00] <Mati> otherwise, this room is not the right one for you
[16:09:37] <rasha.ali76> I think u r ignoring me
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[16:12:13] <Mati> rasha.ali76, no, this just not a casual chat room.
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[17:29:54] <sammler> ciao!
[17:30:36] <sammler> @kev: it still works :-) hey, after the operation i have found the settings in pidgin too :-)
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[17:39:02] <sammler> hm hm hm
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[19:59:11] <islevegan> hmm, i just tried from my gmail account. the messages i sent were not showing up. i hear there are problems with google to others.
[19:59:48] <Kev> Google Talk's broken with MUC at the moment.
[19:59:57] <Kev> Well, always has been, as far as I can tell.
[20:00:08] <Kev> I don't know if that's what's hitting you - were they in a MUC?
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[20:02:16] <islevegan> it was this room
[20:02:21] <islevegan> just a few moments ago
[20:02:25] <islevegan> wanted to try it out
[20:02:35] <islevegan> had never tried use of the federated thing
[20:03:02] <Kev> Google Talk federates fine outside MUCs, but it's broken in MUCs.
[20:04:15] <islevegan> yeah, sounds like maybe what i experienced
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[20:56:18] <islevegan> it seems in tutorials they often use a subdomain for MUCs, when configuring xmpp servers. is that required? can i use the same mydomain.com for the MUC like Component "mydomain.com" "muc"
[20:57:15] <Kev> You can technically do that.
[20:57:23] <Kev> I don't know of a server that supports it, though.
[20:58:04] <waqas> Prosody supports it of course. Don't others?
[20:58:12] <Kev> waqas: Heh, does it?
[20:58:20] <Kev> Ok.
[20:58:48] <waqas> I don't see why a server would differentiate between "domain.com" or "sub.domain.com". Hosts are opaque strings most of the time.
[20:58:49] <islevegan> the reason not to do that would be because the same notation is used by MUC names as by users and there would not be a way to specify if it's a MUC or user when going aloha@mydomain.com, for example
[20:58:56] <islevegan> just guessing
[20:59:08] <islevegan> why people use subdomains for the muc thing
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[21:00:55] <islevegan> so if all MUC names were using the subdomain for MUCs then that would make sense; a way to know if the stuff before @ is a MUC or user
[21:00:58] <islevegan> right or wrong?
[21:01:51] <Kev> I think it's a sensible enough convention, yes
[21:02:20] <waqas> That's what most servers do. Prosody's implementation allows rooms on non-MUC hosts though (which some clients can choke on, e.g., Empathy).
[21:02:53] <Kev> Swift should cope fine, in theory.
[21:03:12] <Kev> As long as the server reports that it supports conference.s
[21:03:34] <islevegan> waqas, when you say prosody allows rooms on non-MUC hosts, is it essentially a MUC then or something different?
[21:03:44] <Kev> Still a MUC
[21:03:59] <waqas> islevegan: It's MUC. The MUC XEP doesn't restrict that.
[21:04:28] <islevegan> interesting
[21:08:15] <MattJ> waqas, Empathy/Telepathy removed that check btw
[21:10:20] <waqas> MattJ: Ah, great. It made sense in a way, but making it impossible to join rooms that way was wrong IMHO.
[21:10:38] <MattJ> Well it should disco the room JID if it wants to disco anything
[21:10:50] <waqas> Indeed
[21:11:04] <Kev> What did it disco before?
[21:11:09] <MattJ> the domain part
[21:11:16] <Kev> Well, that's correct too.
[21:11:29] <MattJ> Not if you have user@example.com and room@example.com :)
[21:11:33] <Kev> Well, sure.
[21:11:54] <Kev> Just have a different identities in #items.
[21:12:32] <Kev> <iq from='chat.shakespeare.lit' id='disco1' to='hag66@shakespeare.lit/pda' type='result'> <query xmlns='http://jabber.org/protocol/disco#info'> <identity category='conference' name='Macbeth Chat Service' type='text'/> <feature var='http://jabber.org/protocol/muc'/> </query> </iq>
[21:12:50] <Kev> Ah, interesting
[21:13:09] <MattJ> But example.com isn't a MUC service as such
[21:13:14] <Kev> So yes - if you support MUCs on a domain that doesn't return that, you're disobeying a MUST in the XEP.
[21:13:18] <Kev> So that'd be a Prosody bug.
[21:13:30] <MattJ> Technically not, it's an unadvertised feature ;)
[21:13:44] <MattJ> We just don't restrict people to subdomains, that's all
[21:13:46] <Kev> "The service MUST return its identity and the features it supports:"
[21:13:49] <Kev> You don't get around that.
[21:13:58] <MattJ> It's not a MUC service though
[21:14:20] <Kev> It's a service that implements the Multi-User Chat protocol - which is what the previous text talks about.
[21:14:34] <MattJ> No, it's not... "example.com" doesn't implement MUC
[21:14:47] <Kev> Ah, so you can't join a MUC on example.com?
[21:14:50] <Kev> That's fine then.
[21:14:51] <MattJ> Correct
[21:15:06] <MattJ> This is the specific case of mixing rooms with users on the same domain
[21:15:22] <Kev> As long as there are no things like muc@example.com, you're fine not returning the disco.
[21:15:27] <Kev> If there are, it's broken.
[21:15:29] <MattJ> if you configure a normal MUC service as example.com, of course it's going to report itself as a MUC service
[21:17:08] <islevegan> is it a good idea to use a different subdomain for MUCs than the main one used for the xmpp server? or is this not likely to be a problem because the clients' request is different for MUC vs user? could one have a user and a MUC of the same name without any problems if MUC service was on the same domain?
[21:17:32] <Kev> islevegan: As discussed above, the XEP essentially prohibits not having a seperate domain, which I hadn't previously realised.
[21:17:40] <Kev> So yes, good idea to use a different subdomain.
[21:17:43] <MattJ> No, a JID can certainly not be a user and a MUC at the same time :)
[21:18:19] <stpeter> heh
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[21:18:32] <islevegan> i assume XEP is the standard for xmpp
[21:18:46] <Kev> XMPP Extension Protocol - so essentially, yes.
[21:18:56] <guest11> is there any onlin sasl decoder?
[21:18:59] <islevegan> yeah, laugh at me guys, i'm new :-p
[21:19:01] <Kev> The core of XMPP itself is defined elsewhere, but features re mostly in XEPs.
[21:19:09] <Kev> s/re/are/
[21:19:15] <waqas> There was that proto-XEP which allowed users to be private MUCs, but that didn't go anywhere.
[21:19:16] <guest11> can someone please send me the link of online sasl decodeR?
[21:19:17] <islevegan> or girls, or whatever you are
[21:19:46] <Mati> haha, he says that in *this* chatroom *g*
[21:20:05] <MattJ> Mati, which part is amusing in particular? :)
[21:20:11] <guest11> the programming language which i am using doesnt have sasl mechanism
[21:20:14] <waqas> guest11: http://www.google.com/search?q=base64+decoder
[21:20:41] <waqas> Which programming language are you using?
[21:21:05] <guest11> dos
[21:21:10] <Tobias> COBOL?
[21:21:22] <guest11> not command prompt thing
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[21:23:37] <guest11> how to decode cookies?
[21:23:45] <Kev> COOKIE!
[21:23:55] <Mati> guest11, simply eat it.
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[21:24:34] <guest11> i have attachkey and session
[21:27:57] <guest11> whats bcookie?
[21:28:56] <Mati> guest11, I have the vague idea that you (a) ask the wrong people these questions and (b) give way to little context
[21:32:28] <guest11> som guys over here are hackers
[21:32:44] <guest11> i know who they are but i cannot say it over here in the main chat
[21:33:26] <MattJ> :)
[21:33:27] <guest11> if they are readin this they know exactly what i am talking about ..
[21:34:10] <Mati> guest11, those "hackers" are surely totally great BUT I have no clue what you are talking about
[21:34:32] <Mati> better ask those questions "over there" where you know those hackers
[21:34:38] <Kev> Mati: guest11 believes Peter and myself to be hackers of some description, I think.
[21:34:51] <Mati> ah, right, thats that guy
[21:35:04] <Kev> A memory stirs.
[21:35:21] <Mati> guest11, Kev hacked me once, that was mean
[21:35:29] <guest11> pms are blocked
[21:35:36] <Tobias> lol
[21:35:38] <Kev> Mati: You're not helping :p
[21:36:08] <MattJ> guest11, between you and me, I'm a better hacker than Kev... I can get past the PM block ;)
[21:36:30] <Mati> MattJ, I can do that in a second
[21:36:49] <Kev> /me sends guest11 a PM, for the joy of it.
[21:37:20] <guest11> you just entered my jid .....thats not a big thing to do
[21:37:35] <Kev> Check the XML log.
[21:37:35] <guest11> can you decode the cookies?
[21:37:53] <guest11> now i am checking
[21:38:00] <Mati> guest11, yes, I can do the math live in my head!
[21:38:20] <Mati> Kev, sorry for starting this, anyway *g*
[21:38:43] <guest11> only the mods can send pms i think
[21:38:48] <Kev> Indeed.
[21:38:48] <guest11> i cant reply to the pms
[21:39:05] <Kev> Why hack something that you have access to already? :)
[21:39:09] <Mati> guest11, thats because you are not smart enough to get past the PM block
[21:39:43] <Kev> Mati: play nice :p
[21:39:54] <Mati> Kev, okok sorry
[21:40:12] <Mati> guest11, I meant you need to improve your hacking skills
[21:41:47] <MattJ> !xmpp-core
[21:41:51] <MattJ> Wrong room
[21:43:16] <Kev> MattJ sends hacker commands to the wrong window.
[21:43:27] <MattJ> :)
[21:47:40] <guest11> guys
[21:47:43] <guest11> GUYS
[21:47:45] <guest11> PLEASE HELP ME
[21:47:52] <guest11> tell me how to decode the cookie
[21:48:14] <guest11> or tell me how to get the jabber password
[21:48:32] <Kev> You already have your jabber password.
[21:48:46] <guest11> and few people in this chatroom have my password too
[21:48:53] <guest11> i want to hack only two people in the world
[21:49:02] <guest11> JUST TELL ME HOW YOU DO IT
[21:49:15] <Kev> As I explained to you last time, no-one hacked you.
[21:49:37] <guest11> how did they know my password then?
[21:49:45] <Kev> It's a social engineering attack, you only believed you were hacked.
[21:50:00] <Kev> Similar way I'm able to 'bypass' the PM block.
[21:50:18] <guest11> which encryption pattern does a website use for the cookies?
[21:50:30] <Kev> That's up to the website.
[21:50:37] <guest11> so if its like
[21:50:49] <guest11> www.somethng.com/somethingelse.py
[21:50:53] <guest11> then ?
[21:51:05] <Kev> Then it's up to the website.
[21:51:11] <guest11> .py
[21:51:17] <guest11> did you notice its .py
[21:51:21] <guest11> means it python
[21:51:22] <guest11> ?
[21:51:26] <Kev> Yes, I did.
[21:51:27] <Mati> guest11, most likely
[21:51:44] <Kev> It doesn't mean it's Python, but it probably is.
[21:52:26] <guest11> somthingelse.py?=
[21:52:44] <guest11> is that python?
[21:52:59] <Kev> Might be - probably is, but could be anything.
[21:53:24] <guest11> its a widget
[21:53:39] <guest11> somethingelse.py?=a234AADF
[21:54:08] <guest11> it opens up a widget in the browser
[21:54:34] <guest11> and that widget is a chatroom
[21:54:39] <guest11> is it python now?
[21:54:56] <Kev> No more or less so than when you last asked.
[21:55:26] <guest11> how to decrypt the cookie of a python
[21:59:31] <Mati> guest11, thats simple:
[22:00:04] <guest11> ?
[22:00:07] <guest11> how
[22:00:28] <Mati> you simply take a cobra, it will neutralize the encryption
[22:00:42] <stpeter> /me shakes his head
[22:01:47] <Mati> guest11, understood?
[22:01:57] <Mati> guest11, you can probably find one in your local zoo
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[22:07:40] <stpeter> ttyl :)
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[22:29:08] <harding29205> hi
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[00:38:56] <Mati> Q: does gmail.com use dialback for s2s or does it trust the SSL certificate
[00:38:59] <Mati> ?
[00:39:30] <Mati> (because the latter seems more likely IMHO, but the former would explain an issue I am having a lot better)
[00:44:25] <islevegan> aloha all
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[01:07:16] <washington45245> Can anyone help me connect iChat with Facebook? all my passwords and usernames are correct it won't stop "connecting..." however
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[01:25:42] <MattJ> .
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[01:40:39] <klk> hi all
[01:40:41] <klk> is there an xmpp client for windows, besides pidgin, that supports bosh?
[01:41:50] <MattJ> Gajim?
[01:43:36] <klk> MattJ: thanks
[01:43:55] <MattJ> np
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