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[17:25:38] <StuFF mc> Hi guys
[17:26:01] <StuFF mc> willing to check something with you "specs-wise" / "implementation-less-wise" :)
[17:26:13] <StuFF mc> I'm working on an iPhone app which connects to a MUC
[17:26:19] * loxs joined the chat.
[17:26:38] <StuFF mc> when the app leaves...
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[17:26:52] <StuFF mc> that would be like quitting Adium for ex.
[17:27:04] <StuFF mc> the user in the room should "leave", right?
[17:27:18] <StuFF mc> or is there in XMPP something like in AIM that allows one to stay connected
[17:27:53] <StuFF mc> ? (that's it, now your turn) :D
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[17:38:19] <loxs> is it possible for a component to modify user rosters? If not fully, at least partially? For example, send to the users that are registered with the component, some group of their friends at the component?
[17:50:52] <Kev> Yes and no.
[17:51:14] <Kev> A component can't modify a user's roster.
[17:51:26] <Kev> It can send a Roster Item Exchange to the user.
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[17:54:41] <Kev> This is what e.g. Spectrum does.
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[18:05:30] <loxs> Kev: so if my client is designed to accept such Roster Item Exchanges, there will be no problem?
[18:06:05] <loxs> Kev, btw, already finished the book :)
[18:06:20] <loxs> now I'm heading to the StropheJS book
[18:07:08] <Kev> Excellent.
[18:08:11] <Kev> I've not read Jack's book. I'll do so if I ever need to code something webby :)
[18:11:58] <loxs> is it very heretical to transport JSON over XMPP? :)
[18:13:28] <Kev> Yes and no.
[18:13:50] <Kev> No if what you need to transport from end to end is JSON.
[18:14:13] <Kev> Yes if what you're doing is forcing JSON into XMPP because you don't want to do stuff the XMPPish way :)
[18:14:45] <Kev> Equally, if you're doing this in a closed infrastructure, no-one's ever going to know to care :)
[18:15:33] <loxs> it is, CouchDB stores JSON documents. and it's a matter of decision whether I serve that documents from my web server, or do I push them to the client via XMPP
[18:16:07] <loxs> *it is JSON what I need to transport
[18:16:28] <Kev> If you have some JSON that you need to move, then moving the JSON seems sensible :)
[18:16:50] <Kev> It would be pointless to re-encode it to XML, shove it over XMPP, and re-encode to JSON again at the other end.
[18:16:54] <loxs> I mean, is it a good idea to directly send JSON to my client, or only send it "go fetch that URL"
[18:17:11] <Kev> Depends entirely on your application.
[18:17:23] <Kev> I don't see any problem with shifting JSON through the XMPP stream.
[18:17:34] <Kev> Unless it's multi-megabyte stuff.
[18:18:06] <Kev> The model is (seems to be) much cleaner if you're just pushing it across the existing XMPP stream.
[18:18:07] <loxs> no, it won't be multi-megabyte
[18:18:36] <loxs> then it seems like my whole game will be over XMPP (except for example images)
[18:19:00] <Kev> Fun stuff.
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[18:30:36] <johnny> bits of binary..
[18:30:42] <johnny> !xep bits of binary
[18:30:44] <xepbot> XEP-0231: Bits of Binary is Standards Track (Draft, 2008-09-03) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0231.html
[18:30:49] <johnny> loxs, ^^
[18:31:16] <Kev> I wouldn't use that.
[18:31:32] <Kev> I don't think there's any need for the base64 overhead if you're just shifting plain text like json.
[18:31:32] <johnny> depending on how big the images are is definitely one issue..
[18:31:37] <loxs> johnny: what's that?
[18:31:46] <johnny> it's for transfering small bits of binary, like small images
[18:31:48] <Kev> johnny: I don't think loxs wants to shift the images inband.
[18:32:05] <loxs> no, images will be served by the web server for sure.
[18:32:05] <johnny> didn't say he should use it, only showing him what he could do
[18:32:11] <Kev> Point.
[18:32:18] <johnny> loxs, you definitey should go over the entire xep list
[18:32:30] <Kev> Fortunately, there's an overview at the back of the book ;)
[18:32:32] <johnny> Tobias (i think) did a pretty good job
[18:32:37] <loxs> they are not small (avatars). They are large images of game "places"
[18:32:40] <johnny> Kev, that's a static piece of paper.. hah
[18:32:48] <johnny> loxs, ah yeah.. definitely don't use it then :)
[18:33:17] <loxs> already read the book, so I know lot's of dos and don'ts :)
[18:33:31] <johnny> since the book went to print, haven't xeps been deferred and/or recommended?
[18:33:40] <johnny> /me imagines it does have a link to the xep list tho
[18:33:59] <johnny> and that if tobia's new xep list thingy went live , there's a redirect from the book path
[18:34:03] <johnny> if it changed*
[18:34:41] <Kev> Stuff's changed, yes - but the summary is probably easier to read in the book than on the webpage.
[18:34:50] <Kev> At least I hope so, otherwise we wasted our time on the book :)
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[18:46:33] <loxs> Kev, the book is nice. I was a little ahead of what it teaches, but that's because I'm reading all kinds of things during the past few weeks. Still it was a nice thing, since it reassured me on lots of things, and now I'm sure that XMPP will it be
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[18:47:41] <loxs> of course, I'll go back a lot to the details in time
[18:49:41] <loxs> Kev: so generally speaking, you've done a nice job, you didn't waste your time :)
[18:49:50] <Kev> Ta.
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[19:01:50] <dwd> loxs, Of course, the problem with shifting JSON through XMPP is that the serious XML people will go after you with picthforks and flaming torches.
[19:02:05] <dwd> loxs, Which is good, since they may not bother us quite so much. :-)
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[19:25:20] <loxs> dwd: lol :)
[19:25:41] <xepbot> loxs: MattJ told me to tell you - Look into Roster Item Exchange (XEP-0144)
[19:29:01] <dwd> Oh, I replied to that thread, but I think my mail got lost. I've been tinkering with my mail server (and client); probably broken something.
[19:29:24] <Kev> "That thread"?
[19:29:46] <dwd> [Standards] Syncing legacy contact list
[19:29:52] <Kev> Ah.
[19:29:57] <Kev> I was going to reply to that, but haven't yet.
[19:30:02] <dwd> Jun 6 20:19:50 peirce postfix/smtp[25444]: A478211680A0: to=<standards@xmpp.or g>, relay=none, delay=34074, delays=34074/0.01/0/0, dsn=4.4.3, status=deferred (Host or domain name not found. Name service error for name=xmpp.org type=MX: H ost not found, try again)
[19:30:08] <dwd> 'course, that might be why.
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[19:30:43] <loxs> ok, good night everyone
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[19:31:33] <dwd> No idea *why* postfix isn't resolving that one for me, though.
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[19:46:29] <dwd> Okay, that was weird. Postfix refusing to do any DNS, apparently.
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[19:49:15] <johnny> hah
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