Logs for jabber

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[05:38:22] * waqas joined the chat.
[05:52:25] <Kamots> waqas: heya!
[05:52:33] <waqas> Hi Kamots
[05:52:44] <Kamots> hows it going?
[05:53:00] <waqas> Fine. Thinking of writing some code.
[05:53:24] <Kamots> I need to get back in to that, I just don't have time lately
[05:53:43] <waqas> That's a common problem.
[05:54:55] <Kamots> could you do me a favor and load https://www.theforest.us - let me know if it gives you a cert warning or not
[05:56:00] <waqas> It gives me a warning. Cert issuer not trusted.
[05:56:07] <Kamots> damn
[05:56:09] <waqas> Chromium on XP.
[05:56:25] <Kamots> oh well
[06:00:08] <Kamots> I'll get a real cert if I need one
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[07:19:51] <Kamots> waqas: why is there a crapton of empty conference rooms?
[07:21:19] <waqas> Because a cleanup hasn't been performed in a while.
[07:21:48] <waqas> I'll poke the admins about it.
[07:22:07] <Kamots> I'm just curious, not complaining :)
[07:22:27] <Kamots> Psi just gagged on the list for about 2 minutes haha
[07:22:38] <waqas> The rooms list is cleaned up every once in a while.
[07:23:03] <Kamots> ya it looks like people just shit all over it
[07:23:24] <waqas> People tend to do that.
[07:23:34] <Kamots> sad...
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[07:25:50] <waqas> Prosody has had feature requests for automatic account and room cleanup.
[07:26:44] <Kamots> good idea :D
[07:27:26] <Kamots> I'd like to make one, have all non-static data able to be stored in a database, and have database compatibility with Amazon's database service thing :)
[07:27:55] <Kamots> I would totally run your server then hehe
[07:29:44] <Kamots> can't you still do it via the web site?
[07:29:51] <Kamots> or something
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[07:31:59] <waqas> Kamots: Pluggable backends are one of the goals for the 0.8 release. We already have SQL support in trunk.
[07:32:35] <waqas> cheney41528: It's being worked on. Registration may be reenabled any day now.
[07:33:03] <waqas> Kamots: Sadly I've never used Amazon's database service thing :)
[07:35:00] <Kamots> http://aws.amazon.com/rds/
[07:35:05] <Kamots> looks like it is just MySQL
[07:35:43] <waqas> That still applies.
[07:35:45] <Kamots> may as well just install MySQL on my current instance, bleh
[07:40:14] <waqas> "[...] any tool designed for the MySQL engine will work unmodified with Amazon RDS."
[07:40:20] <waqas> Kamots: ^
[07:40:30] <Kamots> ya thats what I said hehe
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[07:41:09] <Kamots> so it'd cost me more to spin up that at 0.11/hr then running MySQL on the same instance
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[07:41:21] <waqas> Yeah
[07:41:43] <waqas> Why an EC2 instance, and not a normal VPS?
[07:41:52] <Kamots> VPS?
[07:42:22] <Kamots> oh
[07:42:26] <waqas> Virtual private server.
[07:42:27] <Kamots> cheaper? :)
[07:43:00] <waqas> What's cheaper? EC2 running 24/7 is much more expensive than a VPS with the same resources.
[07:43:14] <waqas> IIRC
[07:43:18] <Kamots> its only gona cost me about $40/mo
[07:43:50] <Kamots> for say 30GB storage, 1CPU, 1.7GB RAM and monitoring
[07:44:31] <Kamots> and ya the storage is small, but its not a fileserver, so I doubt I'll ever use more then 3-4GB total anyway
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[07:47:32] <Kamots> if you can find something cheaper, cool - but so far this is pretty cheap
[07:49:59] <waqas> What type of EC2 instance do you have?
[07:50:54] <waqas> /me thinks of taking a nap..
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[07:51:49] <Kamots> m1.small
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[07:57:04] <waqas> That's $0.085/hour, no? 0.085*24*30 = $61.2/month.
[07:57:59] <Kamots> I'm running it as a spot instance at about 0.031/hr ;) the spot price has been between 0.029 and 0.031 for the last 3 months other then a very short spike to 0.050
[07:58:14] <waqas> Aha
[07:58:23] <Kamots> :D
[07:59:02] <Kamots> so its about $28/mo plus storage cost
[07:59:43] <Kamots> and I'm running the 0.015/hr monitoring thing to baseline it, but that'll go away once I get a good baseline
[08:01:10] <Kamots> I have VMware and *could* spin up a server at home pretty easily, but I wouldn't have a static IP nor the uber bandwidth and low latency I get hosting it elsewhere
[08:01:24] <waqas> Right
[08:01:41] <Kamots> I wish I had a VMware server like the ones at work, hehe
[08:02:28] <waqas> I have VMware, but not a VMware server like the ones at your work :)
[08:02:59] <Kamots> we have one we just bought, Xeon X5660 12 cores @ 2.8GHz, 64GB DDR3 RAM, 12 x 450GB 15K 6gbit SAS
[08:03:23] <waqas> I do wish I had that ^^
[08:03:35] <Kamots> ya me too, its sick, and is almost sleeping right now
[08:03:50] <waqas> All the wasted resources..
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[08:04:02] <Kamots> I know....
[08:05:32] <Kamots> sadly I can't just spin up servers on it for fun, we process credit/debit card transactions here so the auditors would have my ass :P
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[08:11:32] <Kamots> waqas: what do VPS services usually cost for something like the amazon m1.small with 10-15GB storage?
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[11:24:46] <apdragon56> !english
[11:25:14] <naw> !en
[11:25:14] <HAL> discuss@conference.jabber.org
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[11:46:39] <apdragon56> !en
[11:46:39] <HAL> discuss@conference.jabber.org
[11:47:15] <apdragon56> i need help!HAL:
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[17:28:02] <stpeter> there should be no delay
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[17:33:44] <stpeter> /me wonders if there is a server bug for which a fix is on the way
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[17:48:50] <stpeter> carter53176: I'll check into possible bugs
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[19:52:37] <vin> hey
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[22:45:43] <waqas> Kamots: A basic VPS can be $10-$20/month, but that can't compete with EC2's m1.small in terms of RAM (256MB or a bit more).
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[23:10:14] <Kamots> waqas: where is that at? I really don't need a lot of ram
[23:11:09] <waqas> Check out packages for Slicehost and Linode. They are probably the most popular (though you can probably find cheaper providers).
[23:17:08] <Kamots> hmmm, so both run off Xen
[23:17:29] <waqas> These two do, yes.
[23:19:22] <Kamots> Price VS Features, AWS still seems to win
[23:20:08] <waqas> With RAM, yes. Without RAM, I'd argue otherwise.
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[23:20:43] <waqas> AWS probably does have the better infrastructure for scaling.
[23:23:08] <Kamots> well I have a running 15GB image, a 15GB snapshot and additional 1GB of swap, so around 31GB of storage used ... that would run me $38-$49
[23:24:47] <Kamots> its close, but with the additional features they offer it just edges with my current needs - however a VPS would work if my requirements changed
[23:25:23] <Kamots> they were nice enough to setup reverse DNS for my static IP :D
[23:25:30] <waqas> AWS is more attractive with the spot instances.
[23:25:43] <Kamots> yes, thats what I mean
[23:26:07] <Kamots> and if you set your bid high enough, your spot instance won't get terminated, but you may need to relaunch it to get the price back down
[23:26:38] <waqas> How high is your maximum bid amount?
[23:27:00] <Kamots> right now 0.050 since that is the highest its been in 3 months
[23:27:43] <Kamots> I'll likely set it to 0.070 when I get the final build done just to make sure it doesn't die
[23:28:23] <Kamots> but looking at the history data, it'll be a while before the average goes above 0.031
[23:28:54] <Kamots> also its not like I'm running mission critical stuff :)
[23:36:29] <Kamots> where was the $10/mo VPS?
[23:38:07] <waqas> Not sure. There are various tiny providers in the EU, which tend to be very inexpensive.
[23:39:50] <Kamots> ah, well nevermind then, guess $20 is it
[23:40:09] <waqas> Getting it?
[23:43:34] <Kamots> nah, calculating out for 30 days, EC2 is gona cost me $33/mo with all features turned on, I can save an additional $10 if I turn off monitoring
[23:43:51] <waqas> Attractive.
[23:44:26] <waqas> It was significantly more expensive the last time I looked at it for an always on server.
[23:44:53] <Kamots> well if I calculated out at the standard price....
[23:45:10] <waqas> Even that is lower than when I looked.
[23:47:00] <Kamots> it would be $72/mo for all features and my current storage use
[23:47:35] <Kamots> pretty significant savings with the spot instance :D
[23:48:29] <Kamots> I'm not figuring in bandwidth cost, but its 0.01/GB and I don't plan on having much bandwidth use anyway
[23:49:11] <waqas> Google may release an S3 competitior at I/O next month (from HN's frontpage). It would be interesting if they also offer an EC2 competitior later :/
[23:49:25] <Kamots> with 153 hours including Ubuntu patches and a lot of playing around with setting up I'm so far at 0.555GB haha
[23:49:45] <waqas> As long as your users don't try transfering many files via the server :)
[23:49:46] <Kamots> that may be cool, hopefully help drive AWS prices down
[23:50:04] <Kamots> hm, how do I disable file transfer via the server?
[23:50:23] <Kamots> I thought that was a P2P thing with jabber
[23:50:46] <waqas> By not having a file transfer proxy (which should be the case by default). You can't disable in-band transfers easily, but most clients don't do that anyway.
[23:51:03] <waqas> A direct P2P link isn't always possible, thanks to NATs/firewalls
[23:51:33] <Kamots> /me nods
[23:51:51] <Kamots> ya the proxy is turned off
[23:52:18] <Kamots> I was thinking of setting up transports for MSN/AIM/ICQ/Yahoo but it doesn't seem as easy as I remembered
[23:52:39] <waqas> Give spectrum a try (spectrum.im)
[23:53:12] <waqas> libpurple based. Much better than the various py* transports.
[23:53:37] <Kamots> ejabberd can deal with it?
[23:53:45] <waqas> Sure
[23:54:42] <Kamots> what I mean is it'll show up as a service
[23:55:18] <waqas> Yes. You'll need to add the hosts to the ejabberd config of course (which I don't know much about).
[23:55:26] <waqas> Ask in the spectrum room.
[23:55:57] <waqas> That's another spectrum advantage. You are unlikely to find a populated room for other transports :)
[23:56:16] <Kamots> ya I know that part
[23:56:17] <Kamots> cool
[23:57:30] <Kamots> spectrum@conference.jabber.org is empty
[23:58:07] <waqas> Wrong room
[23:58:09] <waqas> spectrum@conference.spectrum.im
[23:58:33] <waqas> Most projects' rooms are not on jabber.org.
[23:58:33] <Kamots> ohhh
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[01:07:42] <Kamots> well that was easy to setup
[01:07:52] <Kamots> thanks for the suggestion waqas, works great
[01:09:34] <waqas> It's probably the most actively developed transport. Quite popular with Prosody users.
[01:12:21] <Kamots> only problem is the damn thing dumps a lot of junk in its logs, including plaintext passwords
[01:12:46] <waqas> That's bad. Poke the dev in their room about it :/
[01:12:56] <darkrain> You can disable the XML logging
[01:13:13] <Kamots> I tried to remove "xml" from the logging list
[01:13:39] <darkrain> Ah, if that didn't work, then yes, that's an issue.
[01:15:16] <Kamots> how do you disable all logging? I just don't care (and don't want to be billed for the I/O and storage)
[01:16:40] <Kamots> ya, its logging is stupid verbose
[01:22:35] <waqas> Kamots: Does commenting the logging section work?
[01:22:51] <Kamots> nope, it causes the program to puke errors and die haha
[01:22:52] <waqas> You can always log_file=/dev/null :)
[01:22:58] <Kamots> ya thats what I'm doing
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[01:23:36] <Kamots> * Starting spectrum instance: yahoo_theforest.cfg Start yahoo.jabber.theforest.us... /dev/null: Unsafe ownership (fix with "chown spectrum /dev/null") [ OK ]
[01:23:40] <Kamots> ok this sucks
[01:24:13] <darkrain> Bypass spectrumctl and just invoke spectrum directly.
[01:24:22] <waqas> 'log_areas=' doesn't work?
[01:24:43] <Kamots> it disables some of it, but it still logs a lot including "is typing" events
[01:25:41] <Kamots> darkrain: same
[01:26:18] <darkrain> It can't possibly be the same; the Unsafe ownership message is generated by spectrumctl.
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[02:51:25] <Kamots> how long does it usually take to get added to http://xmpp.org/services/ ?
[02:53:08] <waqas> As soon as someone (usually stpeter) gets the time.
[02:55:21] <Kamots> ah I thought it was automated with that form and all
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