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[15:18:38] <amazinzay> Is there any way for an external component to broadcast a presence update for a user to the server and have the server handle sending this to the users roster?
[15:19:12] <amazinzay> I have tried sending a presence stanza with a from address and no to address but the server rejects the message
[15:23:08] <bjc> you can do it, but not with an external component
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[15:24:17] <amazinzay> so for an external component to update a users presence it must keep a copy of the users roster and send directed presence to all of its subscribers?
[15:24:23] <bjc> basically, it violates component security policy, however, if you run it as part of the prosody process then you can use prosody's internal machinery to forge addresses
[15:24:37] <bjc> you can't do that either
[15:25:03] <bjc> a component "foo.xyz.com" can't pretend to be any other domain than "foo.xyz.com"
[15:25:26] <bjc> so you can't, for instance, have it send messages, presence, or iq as "foo@xyz.com"
[15:25:31] <amazinzay> so I can do it for local users but not remote users right?
[15:25:48] <bjc> components live in their own domain
[15:26:13] <bjc> unless the component itself has users then everyone is "remote"
[15:28:12] <amazinzay> but if I have a component set up as "component.example.com" I can send a message stanza as from user@example.com to otheruser@example.com and it is delivered as if user actually sent the message
[15:28:40] <bjc> …you can?
[15:28:46] <amazinzay> at least in prosody yes
[15:29:00] <bjc> i could be mistaken, but you shouldn't be able to do that
[15:29:07] <amazinzay> It was my understanding that that was the point of an external component
[15:29:26] <amazinzay> to allow you to masquerade as the individual users on that server
[15:29:32] <bjc> no, they're typically used for things like pubsub, muc, transports, etc
[15:29:56] <amazinzay> which is why the XEP says "Given that an external component is trusted to write 'from' addresses for any user at the component's hostname, server administrators SHOULD make sure that they in fact do trust the component software."
[15:30:10] <deryni> Right, at the *component's hostname*.
[15:30:13] <bjc> right
[15:30:14] <deryni> Not other hostnames.
[15:30:14] <amazinzay> I see
[15:30:19] <bjc> which is conference.example.com
[15:30:25] <bjc> or whatever
[15:30:39] <bjc> /me pokes mattj
[15:30:44] <bjc> fix prosody, plx =)
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[15:31:57] <amazinzay> so if I were wanting to make something that updated a users presence based on some external resource (in this case the status of their phone, on the phone- available; off the phone- unavailable I would need a plugin not a componont?
[15:32:06] <bjc> yep
[15:32:21] <bjc> that said, i have a plugin that does exactly that and it's using the "component" interface in prosody
[15:32:33] <bjc> but it's an internal one, specifically so that i can forge addresses
[15:33:44] <bjc> fwiw, i used a component rather than a normal plugin so i could smack an ad hoc command interface on it for use by my subsystems and not have to worry about jid/node collisions
[15:34:03] <amazinzay> It seems that the XEP is ambiguous as to the permissions of a component to do this, as Section 2 to say "An external component is commonly trusted to do things that clients cannot, such as write 'from' addresses for the server's domain(s)."
[15:34:35] <bjc> "server", in this case, refers to the component itself, i believe
[15:35:03] <amazinzay> would it be possible for me to get my hands on this plugin :-)
[15:35:26] <bjc> lemme see if it's got seekrits
[15:35:33] <amazinzay> alright
[15:36:28] <bjc> http://gist.github.com/361285
[15:36:32] <bjc> it's still in development
[15:36:42] <bjc> there are a couple edge cases that don't work
[15:36:52] <bjc> and i don't verify the signature yet
[15:37:01] <bjc> but the latter is easily done
[15:37:28] <bjc> the edge cases are trickier: setting a user "on call" while they're offline, then the user comes online, and making sure presence is delivered properly
[15:38:04] <bjc> it also doesn't use the roster, since we only wanted to deliver on/off hook status to people w/i a given domain (we considered the entire roster to be leaking too much information)
[15:38:16] <amazinzay> I see
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[15:43:40] <amazinzay> thank you for your help. I appreciate it very much.
[15:43:47] <bjc> np
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[15:47:45] <amazinzay> you will have to forgive me, I am still fairly new working with XMPP, how would I go about triggering the set_on_call or set_off_call
[15:47:53] <amazinzay> is it an ad-hoc xmpp stanze?
[15:48:27] <MattJ> bjc, aww, this is one place where I'd rather not comply with the specs :)
[15:49:20] <MattJ> I don't see what harm it does not enforcing the from address to match the component's domain - the component is already trusted, it just prevents people doing fun stuff
[15:49:36] <bjc> amazinzay: yes. you can use service discovery on the component host and execute a command from that
[15:50:51] <bjc> MattJ: i don't really see the harm, either, but i assume there's a rationale (although it could just be anal retentivity)
[15:51:11] <deryni> There was talk about having more and less trusted components at one point wasn't there? To allow for stuff like this?
[15:51:12] <MattJ> iirc in ejabberd it's a config option, whether to verify the address
[15:51:16] <MattJ> I may go the same route
[15:51:26] <bjc> i don't remember seeing it in ejabberd
[15:51:41] <bjc> then again, i read the xep before i did any work with components so i just assumed it wouldn't work
[15:52:11] <bjc> that said, this particular component must be an internal component, since it has to intercept outgoing presence
[15:52:52] <MattJ> I've been pondering a Prosody plugin that would let external components handle/intercept stanzas
[15:53:07] <bjc> that'd be useful
[15:53:12] <MattJ> and maybe other events
[15:53:41] <bjc> i'm not sure how you'd code the interface between the component and prosody. maybe a config file option + message stanza
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[15:53:54] <bjc> for generic events, anyway
[15:54:14] <bjc> for regular stanzas you could just blindly forward them according to the rules in the config
[15:54:32] <johnny> anybody have any code to remotely control clients?
[15:54:38] <bjc> but generic events would be better. it's good to know, for instance, when someone goes on/offline
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[15:55:17] <johnny> a friend of mine was trying to implementing something with netcat over an ssh connection.. i just wondered if somebody had already done it with an xmpp client already
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[15:56:02] <bjc> i don't know of anything like that, but it wouldn't be too hard to write. the only tricky part is getting security right
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[15:56:17] <bjc> at least, for simple batch-mode operation
[15:57:42] <johnny> bjc, it's for thin clients
[15:57:50] <johnny> he wants to start apps for his students
[15:58:19] <bjc> that'd be fairly easy
[15:58:25] <bjc> as it gets more interactive it gets trickier
[15:58:42] <johnny> i think he should go the route of telepathy in an ideal world..
[15:58:48] <johnny> and use pipes
[15:58:55] <johnny> but.. there is no telepathy client that slim i bet
[15:59:30] <bjc> you could emulate pipes, but it's not that straightforward. pipes are long lived and have no natural start/stop semantics
[15:59:40] <johnny> bjc, no.. i mean dpipes or whatever they are called
[15:59:50] <johnny> err that's right.. tubes not pipes :)
[15:59:53] <MattJ> johnny, would a command-line app suffice?
[15:59:53] <bjc> i dunno what a dpipe is
[16:00:07] <johnny> bjc, it's basically dbus over a connection
[16:00:28] <johnny> instead of local to the machine
[16:00:40] <johnny> MattJ, would you like to speak to him?
[16:01:01] <bjc> i don't know anything about dbus either
[16:01:05] <johnny> perhaps he can more accurately describe what he is trying to accomplish?
[16:01:08] <bjc> something gnome related iirc
[16:01:12] <johnny> bjc, no.. not gnome related..
[16:01:18] <johnny> it's used by every modern linux thing
[16:01:24] <bjc> ah
[16:01:29] <johnny> on desktops.. soon to required on servers too
[16:02:25] <MattJ> bjc, it's aiming to be *the* IPC mechanism
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[16:02:43] <MattJ> which means they had to make it hideously complicated :/
[16:03:04] <bjc> i shouldn't speak to it, since i know nothing about it, but i can tell you when i hear "the ipc mechanism" i get involuntary shudders down my spine
[16:03:04] <MattJ> johnny, I only ask because I've been working on a netcat-over-XMPP thing
[16:03:14] <Flo> hm ... deja vu
[16:03:14] <MattJ> Heh
[16:03:16] <bjc> sysv ipc anyone?
[16:03:22] <johnny> will you talk to him MattJ ?
[16:03:27] <johnny> where should i tell him to go
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[16:04:03] <MattJ> *shrug* - he can join the Prosody room or you can give him my JID :)
[16:04:26] <MattJ> which is also my email address
[16:05:07] <johnny> ah.. he already paid somebody as of 2 days ago :(
[16:05:11] <johnny> with shell redirection
[16:05:16] <johnny> and some other stuff
[16:05:17] <johnny> via nc
[16:05:35] <MattJ> ^^
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[18:36:59] <amazinzay> Ok, so I am trying to implement an ad-hoc connection to prosody from an external python script. Do I need to set up a user on the XMPP server to connect to before sending the iq get disco#info?
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