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[02:15:27] <darkrain> Zash: Pidgin should support XEP 249.
[02:16:03] <Zash> darkrain: as in, sending invites to someone?
[02:16:57] <darkrain> We only use it for sending invites if the chat room is not a MUC (determined by whether the on-join presence contains the MUC "gloop" (if you pay attention to my debug messages))
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[15:24:32] <jonkri> does xmpp support storing text messages etc (basically all information exchanged that the user could want to backup) encrypted on the server?
[15:27:54] <jonas> you can keep logs of communication and store that log on the server (for example on an encrypted harddrive), but that would be up to the server implementation, not xmpp itself
[15:30:35] <jonkri> basically i'm trying to figure out if xmpp can be the right choice for my project. i want to create a darknet/social network where the client encrypts and decrypts information interchanged and the server knows as little as possible
[15:30:54] <MattJ> XMPP "can" do anything
[15:32:13] <MattJ> Whether there's a standard way to do something you want depends, and maybe you don't need there to be one (if you're making your own implementations, or are prepared to modify some)
[15:33:19] <jonas> jonkri, if two clients are online, and communicate (like instant messaging) then you can use "end to end encryption", meaning the server knows who you talk to, but not about what. there are also specifications of how to make use of gpg
[15:34:01] <jonkri> yeah, i was looking at http://xmpp.org/internet-drafts/draft-meyer-xmpp-e2e-encryption-00.html
[15:35:45] <jonkri> the thing here is that the client will not have any persistent storage (except for the encryption keys)... so i will need to store the encrypted data onto the server and implement some kind of protocol for the client to fetch it, or something
[15:35:52] <jonkri> MattJ: does opensocialweb support this?
[15:37:41] <MattJ> It uses something PEP-like I think
[15:37:54] <MattJ> so you can probably use it for kind-of data storage
[15:38:10] <MattJ> but it wouldn't be ideal for what you want I think
[15:38:14] <Zash> s/open/one/ ?
[15:38:25] <jonkri> Zash: yes :)
[15:43:59] <jonkri> i just realized that the data can not be encrypted on the server (while the server is running)
[15:44:14] <MattJ> Depends which data
[15:44:26] <jonas> messages can be encrypted, and only visible to clients
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[15:44:45] <Kev_> jonkri: You can store whatever data you want on the server.
[15:45:08] <Kev_> [xep 49] is for this, as is [xep 163] with a whitelist model.
[15:45:08] <Kanchil> Kev_: Sorry, I couldn't find a match
[15:45:18] <Kev_> o_O
[15:45:40] <MattJ> Ah, so it's not just HAL with that issue then :)
[15:46:03] <MattJ> Kev_, your !xep code or mine?
[15:46:16] <Kev_> I don't remember which of us wrote that.
[15:46:28] <Kev_> Probably yours, if you've written one for Riddim.
[15:46:33] <MattJ> I did
[15:46:51] <MattJ> If it's badly formatted part-camelCase code then it's what I stole from HAL
[15:47:05] <MattJ> who recently has also gained the habit of "forgetting" all XEPs
[15:47:35] <Kev_> Odd, I'm not seeing any camel case.
[15:47:36] <Zash> "Unable to fetch the XEP list from xmpp.org: invalid status line"
[15:47:37] <darkrain42> ...but how do I fix it when I can't [version a]?
[15:47:38] <Kanchil> darkrain42: There was an error requesting a's version: jid-malformed
[15:47:42] <darkrain42> :(
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[15:48:56] <Kev_> Maybe this is my code then, not sure.
[15:49:09] <jonkri> jonas, Kev_, MattJ: thanks :)
[15:49:11] <Kev_> I wonder if you gave me the Hal code and I butchered it or something.
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[15:49:41] <MattJ> /me looks
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[15:50:06] <MattJ> Kev_, no, looks like I could have refactored it a bit for Riddim
[15:50:19] <Zash> Doesn't this server do invites? ^^
[15:50:30] <Zash> mupp: oh, there you are
[15:50:32] <Kev_> :~/devel/riddim/> md5sum riddim/plugins/xeps.lua 3:48PM 5da0255af69697f97e007b0cbdbd6699 riddim/plugins/xeps.lua
[15:50:35] <darkrain42> Maybe I'll ask here, since MattJ smacked me down yesterday. What is the 'recommended' thing to do when a server sends realm="" in the DIGEST-MD5 challenge? (I'm looking for something beyond "Use SCRAM" :D)
[15:50:35] <Zash> mupp: xep 1
[15:50:36] <mupp> Zash: Unable to fetch the XEP list from xmpp.org: invalid status line
[15:51:20] <MattJ> Zash, are you using waqas's new httpstream with that perhaps?
[15:51:36] <Zash> MattJ: I think so
[15:51:41] <Zash> or?
[15:52:11] <Zash> MattJ: How new is it?
[15:52:19] <MattJ> A week or two
[15:52:42] <Zash> mupp: version zash.se
[15:52:42] <mupp> Zash: zash.se is running Prosody version trunk nightly build 126 (2010-10-22, f2aca3e0fe3b) on Ubuntu 10.04.1 LTS
[15:53:03] <Zash> MattJ: Is it in that, or fetched from your repo?
[15:53:29] <MattJ> Depends when you last squished verse, and whether it used local copies or downloaded
[15:53:51] <Zash> MattJ: "Yesterday"
[15:54:00] <Zash> (before I slept, eg this morning)
[15:55:02] <MattJ> Then poke waqas to solve it :)
[15:55:31] <MattJ> /me is doing 4-5 things at once right now
[15:55:57] <Zash> MattJ: Kick mupp!
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[15:57:44] <darkrain42> Hmmm, real JID leakage?
[15:57:54] <Zash> :O
[15:57:59] <MattJ> Yes, quite
[15:58:02] <darkrain42> :D
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[16:04:16] <jonkri> what do you think of the idea of building a media server using xmpp? it should be able to serve photos, videos and other things you want to be able to view or share with friends
[16:05:12] <Kev_> I think that HTTP is much better suited to serving those things, but that using XMPP for distribution of URLs etc is a good idea.
[16:05:56] <jonkri> Kev_: what about metadata, such as which photo album a picture belongs to or the id3 tag-like information?
[16:06:12] <jonkri> xml?
[16:06:21] <Kev_> Distributing that with XMPP (specifically pubsub, probably using an atom payload) is sensible.
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[16:09:05] <jonkri> i see... cool :)
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[16:09:23] <MattJ> jonkri, some time back I was working on a similar project
[16:09:42] <MattJ> the pains of working for other people though, it never got anywhere :/
[16:10:36] <jonkri> MattJ: sorry to hear that
[16:11:01] <jonkri> MattJ: did you use end-to-end encryption, access control and groups?
[16:11:25] <jonkri> MattJ: also, how did you envision your viewer?
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[16:12:33] <MattJ> No end-to-end encryption, access control based on roster, and groups - maybe in a second version :)
[16:13:18] <MattJ> It was for a media device, the viewer would have been on the TV, driven by remote
[16:13:20] <jonkri> MattJ: does "access control based on roster" means that they are allowed to see everything if they are a friend?
[16:13:54] <jonkri> s/they/a given user :P
[16:13:55] <MattJ> Not by default, you could have per-contact settings
[16:14:58] <MattJ> I did have mockups somewhere, but I don't know where, and they're probably technically not mine to share anyway :)
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[16:15:14] <jonkri> aha ok
[16:15:24] <jonkri> well thanks :)
[16:15:26] <dwd> darkrain, Still wondering about that realm value?
[16:16:36] <darkrain_> Well, I'm really wishing DIGEST-MD5 would go away, but yes :(
[16:16:50] <dwd> darkrain, The answer is, as far as I can tell "Use the empty string as your realm". realm="" is surprising, but legal.
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[16:17:25] <darkrain_> Awesome, thanks. That's kinda what I thought the RFC said, but I've learned not to trust my reading of that spec.
[16:20:01] <dwd> The RFC is usually sound, as far as it goes, it's just the implementations don't always follow it all.
[16:20:45] <MattJ> s/all/at &/
[16:21:54] <darkrain_> .
[16:22:10] <dwd> MattJ, Well, to be fair, most people at least try to follow it, rather than searching for ways to interpret the text so it means what they'd like it to mean.
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[16:41:44] <jonkri> Kev_, MattJ: would you use xmpp to upload media to the server, or would you use http there too?
[16:42:22] <Kev_> I'd strongly consider using XMPP to send stuff to the server.
[16:42:47] <MattJ> In my case the sharing was p2p (and I wish Jingle had been more mature)
[16:46:28] <jonkri> jingle seems interesting
[16:47:54] <jonkri> thanks
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[21:28:06] <bear> posted an initial thought about Interop to the jdev list (for the hopefully few folks who are here but don't subscribe to the list)
[21:28:22] <bear> please respond if your a server or client dev and wish to help
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[23:12:49] <Link Mauve> Wow, my PSĜS just received a jabber:iq:agents iq stanza !
[23:13:22] <Link Mauve> I didn’t think that someone would use such hyper-obsolete XEP!
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