Logs for jdev
[00:10:50] * Zaran joined the chat.
[00:10:50] * Zaran left the chat.
[00:14:39] * thrasibule joined the chat.
[00:14:39] * thrasibule left the chat.
[00:15:22] * thrasibule joined the chat.
[00:15:46] * Zaran joined the chat.
[00:17:51] * Neustradamus joined the chat.
[00:25:36] * thrasibule left the chat.
[00:34:35] * Zaran left the chat.
[00:34:49] * Zaran joined the chat.
[00:42:11] * jcea joined the chat.
[00:59:00] * evilotto left the chat.
[01:15:23] * Zaran left the chat.
[02:00:28] * scippio left the chat.
[02:07:07] * Kev_ joined the chat.
[02:07:22] * Kev left the chat.
[02:11:57] * Treebilou left the chat.
[02:15:32] * Kev_ left the chat.
[02:22:56] * Kev_ joined the chat.
[02:26:02] * ff joined the chat.
[02:26:45] * ff left the chat.
[02:28:27] * jcea left the chat.
[03:34:43] <darkrain> !ding
[03:35:07] <MattJ> dong
[03:35:34] <darkrain> Hmm, so the room is up. Where's the bot?
[03:35:47] <MattJ> Which one? :)
[03:35:55] <MattJ> xepbot hasn't been here for weeks/months
[03:36:05] <darkrain> Like me
[03:36:07] <MattJ> Kanchil is Kev's domain
[03:36:43] <darkrain> Kanchil is riddim, right?
[03:36:58] <MattJ> Yes
[04:53:56] * MattJ left the chat.
[05:16:13] * jkhii joined the chat.
[05:45:49] * ermine joined the chat.
[06:12:19] * scippio joined the chat.
[06:30:23] * scippio left the chat.
[06:39:46] * jkhii left the chat.
[06:53:11] * Kanchil joined the chat.
[07:05:15] * mlundblad_laptop joined the chat.
[07:06:27] * Alex joined the chat.
[07:11:42] * jonas joined the chat.
[07:11:53] * jonas left the chat.
[07:12:16] * jonas joined the chat.
[07:17:59] * justin left the chat.
[07:32:06] * smoku left the chat.
[07:44:52] * jonas left the chat.
[08:06:13] * jonas joined the chat.
[08:23:17] * Tobias joined the chat.
[08:31:19] * teo1 left the chat.
[08:31:20] * teo1 joined the chat.
[08:39:05] * luca tagliaferri joined the chat.
[08:57:22] * Guus joined the chat.
[09:10:14] * luca tagliaferri left the chat.
[09:10:15] * luca tagliaferri joined the chat.
[09:30:51] * Asterix left the chat.
[09:31:00] * Asterix joined the chat.
[09:36:23] * petermount joined the chat.
[10:06:29] * smoku joined the chat.
[10:35:16] * Kanchil left the chat.
[10:36:06] * Guus left the chat.
[10:49:38] * Tobias left the chat.
[10:59:25] * MattJ joined the chat.
[11:01:28] * Neustradamus left the chat.
[11:11:36] * mlundblad_laptop left the chat.
[11:13:55] * Guus joined the chat.
[11:42:05] * ivucica joined the chat.
[12:02:06] * bear left the chat.
[12:40:45] * Lord BlackFox joined the chat.
[12:41:16] <Lord BlackFox> hi
[12:41:49] * Treebilou joined the chat.
[12:44:13] * Tobias joined the chat.
[12:45:12] * Neustradamus joined the chat.
[12:46:26] <ivucica> XEP-0045 doesn't make any significant differentiation between received non-MUC presences, and the MUC presences. How is one
supposed to figure out that a presence is not just a directed presence, and that it's in fact a room-originating presence,
in case that client has not explicitly requested joining the room (and thus being aware that a JID is a room's bare JID)?
[12:47:33] <louiz’> How could a client not be aware it is in a room?
[12:47:46] <ivucica> As I said, it has not explicitly requested to join the room
[12:48:09] <ivucica> Or, the client author could be too lazy to remember that a JID is a room JID :)
[12:48:23] <louiz’> In this case, it is just not in the room, is it?
[12:48:29] <Kev_> If your client didn't request the room join, it's not in a room.
[12:48:37] <ivucica> I may want to enforce a client joining the room
[12:48:38] <Kev_> If your client requested the room join and then forgot, it's a bug.
[12:48:50] <ivucica> Or is that use case not covered?
[12:48:51] * smoku left the chat.
[12:48:52] * Tobias left the chat.
[12:48:56] <louiz’> Well, I already asked this question, and the answer was “If it's comming from a room you're in, it's coming from the room,
else it's a directed presence”
[12:49:19] <ivucica> And there is no way to force a client to join a room?
[12:49:26] <louiz’> no
[12:49:34] <ivucica> Neat.
[12:49:36] <louiz’> There are invitations, but the client knows about it
[12:50:00] <Kev_> ivucica: You can, in a controlled environment, do something very similar.
[12:50:19] <ivucica> I was trying to avoid shared rosters, as per a very good suggestion that my use case may be better covered by MUC.
[12:50:24] <Kev_> e.g. the server can inject an autojoin bookmark into the user's store, but this isn't "force" so much as "encourage"
[12:50:47] <ivucica> However, I'd like to enforce all clients, not just my custom client, to automatically join the "room".
[12:51:07] <ivucica> I'll consider this further -- thanks!
[12:51:43] <ivucica> It might be a nice thing to consider updating XEP-0045 to support enforced joins; I'll see how I can send XEP-related comments.
[12:52:03] <Kev_> Well, that would be adding a new XEP rather than updating 45, if I had anything to do with it, but this isn't an unreasonable
use case.
[12:53:22] <ivucica> Kev_: It could be a new XEP :) On the other hand, all that needs to be done is telling the client that a bare JID is a room
JID, hence it might fit well in XEP-0045
[12:54:00] <Kev_> That makes it a very short and pleasant XEP :)
[12:54:05] <ivucica> For example, a room might send a presence to the client, upon which the client could send a disco info request.
[12:54:06] <Kev_> I like short XEPs ;)
[12:54:23] <ivucica> Hm! Perhaps I could write something.
[12:54:44] <ivucica> Interesting, interesting, the way this discussion is proceeding :) I like it.
[12:55:11] * smoku joined the chat.
[12:55:23] <Kev_> It's not clear, mind, that this isn't already covered by invitations.
[12:56:08] <Kev_> And that all that's needed is some client logic that says "If you get an invite from your own bare JID, you should join it."
[13:24:15] * bear joined the chat.
[13:31:07] * Tobias joined the chat.
[13:32:37] * Treebilou left the chat.
[13:36:06] * smoku left the chat.
[13:36:07] * smoku joined the chat.
[13:38:03] * deryni left the chat.
[13:47:04] * scippio joined the chat.
[13:48:27] * Tobias left the chat.
[13:59:58] * Alex left the chat.
[14:25:32] * deryni joined the chat.
[14:27:42] * ivucica left the chat.
[14:34:38] * Lord BlackFox left the chat.
[14:36:09] * Treebilou joined the chat.
[14:55:12] * smoku left the chat.
[15:07:38] * Neustradamus left the chat.
[15:08:58] * hawke joined the chat.
[15:11:43] * Zash joined the chat.
[15:18:15] * Tobias joined the chat.
[15:22:50] * Florob joined the chat.
[15:31:14] * Neustradamus joined the chat.
[15:39:19] * Florob left the chat.
[15:39:21] * Florob joined the chat.
[15:46:38] * Guus left the chat.
[15:51:38] * Neustradamus left the chat.
[16:12:20] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:12:20] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:12:21] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:12:22] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:12:24] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:12:26] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:12:28] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:12:30] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:12:32] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:12:33] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:12:35] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:12:37] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:12:38] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:12:40] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:12:42] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:12:43] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:12:45] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:12:46] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:12:49] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:12:50] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:12:52] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:12:53] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:12:55] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:12:57] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:12:59] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:13:00] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:13:02] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:13:03] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:13:06] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:13:07] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:13:09] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:13:10] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:13:12] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:13:14] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:13:16] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:13:17] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:13:20] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:13:21] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:13:23] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:13:24] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:13:27] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:13:28] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:13:30] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:13:31] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:13:33] * Tobias left the chat.
[16:14:06] * Tobias joined the chat.
[16:25:12] * jonas left the chat.
[16:36:27] * evilotto joined the chat.
[16:52:09] * scippio left the chat.
[16:53:25] * scippio joined the chat.
[16:53:45] * lance joined the chat.
[16:53:45] * lance left the chat.
[16:57:27] * lance joined the chat.
[16:58:06] * abhinavsingh joined the chat.
[17:00:52] * Tobias left the chat.
[17:12:34] * petermount left the chat.
[17:29:55] * hawke left the chat.
[17:30:11] * hawke joined the chat.
[17:32:09] * Treebilou left the chat.
[17:32:52] * lance left the chat.
[17:33:27] * lance joined the chat.
[17:40:21] * Neustradamus joined the chat.
[17:43:59] * scippio left the chat.
[17:51:08] * Treebilou joined the chat.
[17:52:09] * Treebilou left the chat.
[17:52:34] * Treebilou joined the chat.
[18:12:22] * jonas joined the chat.
[18:12:58] * Florob left the chat.
[18:12:58] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:12:59] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:00] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:01] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:01] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:02] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:02] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:03] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:03] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:04] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:04] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:05] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:05] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:06] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:06] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:07] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:07] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:08] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:08] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:08] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:09] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:09] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:09] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:10] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:10] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:12] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:12] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:13] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:13] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:13] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:13] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:14] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:14] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:14] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:15] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:15] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:15] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:16] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:16] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:16] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:16] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:17] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:17] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:18] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:18] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:18] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:18] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:19] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:19] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:20] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:20] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:20] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:21] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:21] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:21] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:22] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:22] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:22] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:23] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:23] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:23] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:24] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:24] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:25] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:25] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:25] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:25] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:26] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:26] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:27] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:27] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:27] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:28] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:28] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:28] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:29] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:29] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:30] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:30] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:30] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:30] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:31] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:31] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:32] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:32] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:33] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:33] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:33] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:34] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:34] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:34] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:35] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:35] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:35] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:36] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:36] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:36] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:37] * Florob left the chat.
[18:13:37] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:13:38] * Florob left the chat.
[18:14:39] * Treebilou left the chat.
[18:15:25] * Treebilou joined the chat.
[18:18:48] * teo1 left the chat.
[18:19:12] * teo1 joined the chat.
[18:19:50] * justin joined the chat.
[18:20:13] * teo1 left the chat.
[18:20:18] * teo1 joined the chat.
[18:21:17] * Neustradamus left the chat.
[18:34:10] * luca tagliaferri left the chat.
[18:42:45] * smoku joined the chat.
[18:45:57] * Florob joined the chat.
[18:49:40] * Zash left the chat.
[18:55:45] * scippio joined the chat.
[19:24:38] * Florob left the chat.
[19:31:30] * justin left the chat.
[19:31:48] * justin joined the chat.
[19:34:22] * justin left the chat.
[19:43:46] * lance left the chat.
[19:59:04] * deryni left the chat.
[20:20:30] * luca tagliaferri joined the chat.
[20:49:40] * abhinavsingh left the chat.
[20:58:38] * ldblackfox joined the chat.
[21:14:03] * alfeberlin joined the chat.
[21:18:19] * elmex joined the chat.
[21:18:19] * evilotto joined the chat.
[21:19:38] * Asterix joined the chat.
[21:21:32] * tofu joined the chat.
[21:21:40] * Treebilou joined the chat.
[21:27:18] * Florob joined the chat.
[21:27:40] * ldblackfox joined the chat.
[21:29:36] * hawke joined the chat.
[21:43:00] * Link Mauve joined the chat.
[21:44:30] * mlundblad joined the chat.
[21:50:09] * deryni joined the chat.
[21:55:54] * johnny joined the chat.
[22:10:13] * evilotto joined the chat.
[22:10:39] * alfeberlin joined the chat.
[22:12:10] * Treebilou joined the chat.
[22:14:50] * mlundblad joined the chat.
[22:15:00] * elmex joined the chat.
[22:18:24] * ldblackfox joined the chat.
[22:18:26] * ldblackfox left the chat.
[22:18:35] * ldblackfox joined the chat.
[22:20:09] * wiretap joined the chat.
[22:26:02] * ldblackfox left the chat.
[22:32:15] * johnny joined the chat.
[22:33:58] * tofu joined the chat.
[22:35:55] * McKael joined the chat.
[22:40:22] * MattJ joined the chat.
[22:40:43] * Lance joined the chat.
[22:53:59] * Lance left the chat.
[22:54:55] * Neustradamus joined the chat.
[22:59:00] * bear joined the chat.
[23:24:12] * mlundblad left the chat.
[23:24:22] * maxou26 joined the chat.
[23:26:14] * maxou26 left the chat.
[23:32:51] * Kev_ joined the chat.
[23:47:42] * Neustradamus left the chat.
[23:47:54] * Neustradamus joined the chat.