Logs for jdev
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[13:07:22] <hachaso> hi
[13:07:24] <hachaso> anyone ?
[13:09:12] <Florob> hi hachaso
[13:10:32] <hachaso> I'm trying to connect to a jabber server
[13:10:36] <hachaso> and get this response
[13:10:38] <hachaso> b"<challenge xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl'>bm9uY2U9ImhueWFiTmw5ZkUrOEExUVZaZDBzNmgrc3AwT3lSZ2RicDQxVERreWh1WlU9IixyZWFsbT0iamFiYmVyLm9yZyIscW9wPSJhdXRoIixtYXhidWY9MTYzODQsY2hhcnNldD11dGYtOCxhbGdvcml0aG09bWQ1LXNlc3M=</challenge>"
[13:10:48] <hachaso> how can I decode it ?
[13:10:57] <hachaso> so I know what it asks me
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[13:11:40] <Kev> !rfc 3920
[13:11:48] <Kanchil> Kev: rfc3920: extensible messaging and presence protocol (xmpp): core (october 2004) See: http://tools.ietf.org/html/3920
[13:12:57] <hachaso> Florob ?
[13:13:15] <Kev> /\
[13:15:02] <Kev> Or http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-xmpp-3920bis-19#section-6
[13:16:03] <hachaso> anyone who can help me with some stanza problems ?
[13:16:22] <Kev> What are the stanza problems?
[13:18:15] <hachaso> b"<challenge xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl'>bm9uY2U9ImhueWFiTmw5ZkUrOEExUVZaZDBzNmgrc3AwT3lSZ2RicDQxVERreWh1WlU9IixyZWFsbT0iamFiYmVyLm9yZyIscW9wPSJhdXRoIixtYXhidWY9MTYzODQsY2hhcnNldD11dGYtOCxhbGdvcml0aG09bWQ1LXNlc3M=</challenge>"
[13:18:21] <hachaso> how can I decode that?
[13:18:30] <hachaso> knowing what the server wants
[13:18:31] <hachaso> ?
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[13:18:32] <Kev> I just gave you the link to answer that.
[13:18:36] <Kev> Also: That's not a stanza.
[13:18:57] <Kev> Stanzas are stream elements of <message/> <iq/> or <presence/
[13:18:58] <Kev> >
[13:19:11] <hachaso> ohh ..sorry.. I'm new at this..
[13:19:13] <hachaso> my misstake
[13:19:21] <hachaso> the link you gave me..
[13:19:25] <hachaso> what should I look for
[13:19:44] <Kev> Read the whole of that section.
[13:19:56] <Kev> Or, well, if you're trying to write an XMPP library, the whole of that document.
[13:20:32] <hachaso> you mean RFC 3920 ?
[13:20:42] <Kev> 3920bis is a better choice.
[13:20:49] <Kev> (The second link I sent)
[13:20:56] <Kev> 3920bis is the latest version of 3920
[13:21:46] <hachaso> you mean the section 6. SASL Negotiation
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[13:22:52] <Kev> That's the section that talks about SASL, yes. You'll need to read the whole document if you're trying to write a library,
though.
[13:23:09] <Kev> And 3921bis as well, if you want to do standard chat client type stuff.
[13:28:01] <hachaso> yes.. I want to create a simple client… that makes me understand how it works
[13:29:22] <Kev> Read 3920bis and 3921bis, then.
[13:29:36] <Kev> And reading http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596521271 first is likely to help.
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[18:50:40] <Link Mauve> Is it possible for a room JID to be only a domain?
[18:51:32] <Zash> Why not?
[18:51:55] <waqas> Prosody supports it ^^
[18:52:21] <Link Mauve> It is for what a client should accept as a JID.
[18:52:27] <waqas> I have yet to find a client which would actually let me join such a room, but I added support.
[18:52:40] <Link Mauve> So I don’t restrict to the presence of a “@”.
[18:53:17] <waqas> There's no technical reason why it wouldn't work. The MUC XEP however talks with the assumption that rooms would always be
node@host.
[18:55:54] <Link Mauve> Ok, but I prefer to restrict less, as users won’t be able to submit the form if one required input isn’t valid.
[18:56:01] <Kev> waqas: Swift won't work?
[18:56:18] <waqas> Didn't test with Swift yet
[18:56:20] <Kev> waqas: I *thought* I'd tried to not make Swift not work, but I've obviously never tested it.
[18:56:33] <Kev> If the disco#items returns a domain JID for the room, I think Swift should join it.
[18:56:36] <Kev> But I could be wrong.
[18:57:05] <Kev> Or if you enter it manuall, for that matter.
[18:57:17] <waqas> conference.prosody.im (the host) should be a MUC room by the way, if anyone wants to test :)
[18:57:28] <waqas> It doesn't return that in the disco#items though
[18:59:18] <Kev> Is it an empty room?
[18:59:23] <Kev> Or is it supposed to have people in?
[18:59:38] <waqas> It's empty. Probably ownerless too.
[18:59:54] <Kev> Zash and I are there :)
[19:00:02] <Kev> So obviously some clients work (the good ones) :)
[19:00:07] <waqas> Ha, so it works :P
[19:00:18] <Zash> I don't think Gajim would let you
[19:00:53] <Zash> Please enter the group chat Jabber ID as room@server.
[19:00:54] <Zash> pfft
[19:01:15] <Zash> He, and you can't even do that, since it's two fields
[19:01:19] <Kev> I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to say.
[19:01:22] <Kev> As long as it's not split.
[19:01:40] <waqas> I highly dislike the two field split
[19:01:45] <Kev> Bearing in mind we're the only two people ever to have joined a nodeless MUC, probably :)
[19:01:56] <Kev> Unless waqas used the telnet client while testing Prosody :)
[19:02:07] <waqas> I claim to be the first, though it was via XML console :)
[19:02:22] <Kev> I'm probably the first with a real client :)
[19:08:36] <johnny> hmm.. some people like the split i guess
[19:08:48] <johnny> pidgin's account dialog thing is split too isn't it?
[19:09:16] <Kev> johnny: It's artificially limiting, though.
[19:09:29] <Kev> Given that, as shown above, it stops you joining valid MUCs
[19:09:37] <johnny> not necessarily
[19:09:40] <johnny> that's just a rule
[19:09:58] <Kev> not necessarily...what?
[19:10:09] <johnny> remove the length checking on thefield.. and you can join?
[19:10:25] <Zash> It won't let you join wth one field empty
[19:10:30] <johnny> that's just a validation rule
[19:10:35] <johnny> you could remove it it
[19:10:39] <johnny> that's not the limitation
[19:13:06] <johnny> but i think it would confuse people who copy and paste entire jids
[19:13:08] <Kev> That is right, as far as it goes.
[19:13:11] <Kev> Yes.
[19:13:20] <Kev> People are used to things that look like email addresses :)
[19:13:37] <johnny> so.. as far as i can tell, the pidgin thing is there by choice tho
[19:13:51] <Kev> It's the way almost all clients do it.
[19:13:56] <johnny> so, we might want to ask them why they have done that, since they seem to care about UI
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[19:16:03] <Kev> No, we should sabotage all other UIs with bad advice to make Swift look better :D
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[19:17:58] <Kev> I think Pidgin should split it into 4 fields.
[19:18:10] <Kev> One for the node, one for the @, one for the hostname, and one for the rest of the domain
[19:18:13] <Kev> that would be very good.
[19:18:17] <Kev> I should request that.
[19:18:26] <waqas> Kev: Don't forget the / and the nick :)
[19:18:27] <Kev> In fact, all clients other than Swift should do that :)
[19:18:43] <Zash> Kev: Why do you have the nickname separated?!
[19:18:55] <Zash> You should only have one field!
[19:19:12] <Kev> Because unlike the node@domain, that the nick is represented as a resource is a protocol detail :)
[19:19:38] <Kev> Although if users log in to Swift with a full JID on the login screen, it'll ask the server for the resource for them.
[19:19:59] <waqas> A mockup for a client UI I did had both the split and the single field. Editing one would update the rest.
[19:20:18] <Kev> waqas: I think that's just confusing :)
[19:20:24] <waqas> Possibly :)
[19:20:27] <Zash> If you press @ in the room field, it jumps to the host field in gajim
[19:20:46] <waqas> Copy paste is my main issue with the split
[19:21:06] <Kev> And telling someone "You should join jdev@conference.jabber.org"
[19:21:16] <Kev> And getting "How do I do that?"
[19:21:19] <Zash> Copypaste in gajim works
[19:21:53] <Zash> paste "foo@bar" into the room field → room: foo ; server: bar
[19:24:57] <Kev> That's convenient. Counterintuitive, but convenient :)
[19:25:14] <waqas> Indeed :)
[19:26:02] <waqas> Miranda is nice in that it populates the fields from the clipboard. It's nasty in that editing the host (in case you copied
an extra space...) helpfully clears the node...
[19:26:12] <waqas> I should write them a patch.
[19:40:37] <Florob> just for poor me: A "room JID" can be only a domain? What nick would such an occpuant have
[19:40:53] <waqas> Florob: host/nick
[19:43:28] <Kev> Florob: A MUC must be a bare JID, because occupant JIDs have a resource, but it could be a bare JID without a node and it
would work in the same way.
[19:46:58] <Florob> Kev, Yes. I was mainly pointing out that (if you read the XEP) this is not a room JID, but a room's JID at best.
[19:48:04] <Kev> You're right.
[19:48:19] <Kev> And, in fact, 45 does suggest that rooms should have nodes.
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[21:07:11] <deryni> I imagine the only reason pidgin doesn't allow an empty node is because it wasn't seen as something that should be valid.
As to splitting the fields up that's probably just because that distinction exists on most of the other protocols (that is
I don't know that there was a decision that it should be that way specifically).
[21:09:51] <Kev> Re-reading the XEP, it certainly implies that nodeless MUCs aren't valid.
[21:10:41] <waqas> I don't see any technical reason why they shouldn't be
[21:11:04] <Kev> The XEP is explicit that a room's bare JID is node@domain, so ...
[21:15:39] <waqas> Kev: That's what stopped me from filing bug reports.
[21:15:45] <waqas> I would like to see this changed :)
[21:16:33] <Kev> I don't think it's one of the more pressing problems with -45
[21:17:09] <waqas> Yeah, now that the bis work is nearing its end, we can work on MUC
[21:18:15] <Kev> I think it's the spec most in need of attention.
[21:18:41] <Zash> And xep 4
[21:18:58] <waqas> Hi Zash :)
[21:19:10] <Zash> Ohai
[21:19:11] <Kev> I'd say 45 is more in need than 4.
[21:19:18] <waqas> And yes, [xep 4] is woefully underspecified
[21:19:18] <Kev> But both 4 and 50 could do with a cleanup as well.
[21:19:19] <Kanchil> waqas: XEP-0004: Data Forms is Standards Track (Final, 2007-08-13) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0004.html
[21:26:08] <Florob> !xep 50
[21:26:09] <Kanchil> Florob: XEP-0050: Ad-Hoc Commands is Standards Track (Draft, 2005-06-30) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0050.html
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[21:32:22] <darkrain> !xep 4
[21:32:22] <Kanchil> darkrain: XEP-0004: Data Forms is Standards Track (Final, 2007-08-13) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0004.html
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[22:33:44] <louiz’> Why is XEP 50 called “ad-hock”?
[22:33:54] <Zash> !xep 50
[22:33:55] <Kanchil> Zash: XEP-0050: Ad-Hoc Commands is Standards Track (Draft, 2005-06-30) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0050.html
[22:34:06] <louiz’> That doesn't explain the name, afaik
[22:34:48] <Zash> !define ad-hoc
[22:34:54] <Zash> HAL!
[22:35:53] <Zash> http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Aad-hoc
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[22:39:12] <lance> louiz: My understanding is that they are called ad hoc because there is no predefined set of commands. They are all specific
to the application using them.
[22:39:51] <louiz’> ah, yeah, it seems to be something like that
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[22:51:06] <Kev> louiz’: The caller doesn't know what commands are available, or what their structure is in advance, thus ad-hoc.
[22:51:30] <louiz’> ok thanks :)
[22:53:35] <Kev> Although there are XEPs that define Ad-Hocs.
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