Logs for jdev
[00:04:56] * deryni joined the chat.
[00:12:41] * Zash left the chat.
[00:29:28] * abhinavsingh left the chat.
[00:31:29] * jkhii left the chat.
[00:42:47] * zaran joined the chat.
[00:58:20] * zaran left the chat.
[00:58:22] * zaran joined the chat.
[01:02:28] * zaran left the chat.
[01:02:35] * zaran joined the chat.
[01:31:20] * Florob left the chat.
[01:42:09] * johnny left the chat.
[01:42:19] * johnny joined the chat.
[01:43:47] * Treebilou joined the chat.
[01:56:19] * maxou26 joined the chat.
[01:57:58] * maxou26 left the chat.
[01:59:49] * zaran left the chat.
[03:07:41] * jkhii joined the chat.
[03:26:59] * darkrain left the chat.
[03:27:22] * darkrain joined the chat.
[03:38:59] * darkrain left the chat.
[03:39:27] * darkrain joined the chat.
[05:00:15] * deryni left the chat.
[06:42:59] * Guus joined the chat.
[06:48:04] * teo1 left the chat.
[06:48:05] * teo1 joined the chat.
[06:59:58] * Kev joined the chat.
[07:06:32] * smoku left the chat.
[07:18:20] * abhinavsingh joined the chat.
[07:28:03] * Guus left the chat.
[07:28:06] * mlundblad_laptop joined the chat.
[07:49:58] * teo1 left the chat.
[07:50:01] * teo1 joined the chat.
[08:01:26] * jonas joined the chat.
[08:09:55] * Guus joined the chat.
[08:13:31] * Ludovic joined the chat.
[08:13:34] * Ludovic left the chat.
[08:26:08] * ermine joined the chat.
[08:41:28] * nabatt joined the chat.
[08:43:29] * Alex joined the chat.
[08:46:00] * Tobias joined the chat.
[08:49:21] * luca tagliaferri joined the chat.
[09:17:37] <nabatt> Hi, what is realm atribute?
[09:19:00] <nabatt> I just think that it is equal domain, but in my working jabber it is empty string. WTF?
[09:25:24] <dwd> DIGEST-MD5?
[09:26:29] * smoku joined the chat.
[09:30:22] <nabatt> dwd: yep
[09:31:53] <nabatt> dwd: this is just kind of "salt" to more sequrely encription? and client can by itself choose this string?
[09:32:08] <nabatt> *is this
[09:35:09] * petermount joined the chat.
[09:40:02] * Tobias left the chat.
[09:40:12] * Tobias joined the chat.
[09:44:50] <dwd> You should always pick one of the ones the server offers.
[09:44:57] <dwd> But an empty string is legal, as far as I can tell.
[09:45:00] <dwd> Just weird.
[09:45:09] <dwd> Which server is this, BTW?
[09:49:38] <nabatt> dwd: I've found that problem is not in the server, but is in my client. Client always sends realm=""
[09:50:38] <nabatt> dwd: server works correctly in both cases. And where can i found sevrer offers?
[09:52:01] <Tobias> in the stream features
[09:52:22] <Tobias> or wait, you mean the realm, right?
[09:55:09] <dwd> nabatt, The point of the realm is to hint to the user which password to use, and to ensure that the plaintext equivalent is
different for different realms.
[09:55:22] <Tobias> in the server's first message there is a realm attribute including a list of realms you can use
[09:56:54] * Tobias left the chat.
[09:57:57] * Tobias joined the chat.
[10:01:13] <nabatt> there is my auth example. where can i find offered realms?
http://paste.org.ru/?x9qkev
[10:04:39] <Tobias> in the base64 decoded string in the first challenge stanza
[10:05:30] <nabatt> Tobias: php -r 'echo base64_decode("bm9uY2U9IjIxNTI0MzYwNzAiLHFvcD0iYXV0aCIsY2hhcnNldD11dGYtOCxhbGdvcml0aG09bWQ1LXNlc3M=");'
nonce="2152436070",qop="auth",charset=utf-8,algorithm=md5-sess
[10:05:44] <Tobias> yup, no realm in there
[10:06:46] <Tobias> see http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2831
[10:06:54] <Tobias> what server software is that?
[10:08:31] <nabatt> Tobias: In basic it is ejabberd. But it goes by its own way 2 or 3 years.
[10:08:41] <Tobias> heh
[10:09:08] <nabatt> Tobias: thanks for rfc link, i can't find it by myself
[10:09:14] <Tobias> np
[10:18:40] <nabatt> So I can see in the rfc2831. If server specified possible realms in "hello", client should use one of them. But if server
does not offer some realms client can set its own. If no realms specified the empty string must be used. Am I right?
[10:21:39] <Tobias> hm...sounds right
[10:22:12] <dwd> The client has to use a realm if the server included any, if not, then it needn't, and the realm-value will be treated as
the empty string.
[10:24:10] <nabatt> But can client use realm="client_random_string" when server does not offer realms?
[10:26:25] * Florob joined the chat.
[10:32:05] <Tobias> dwd, when digest becomes historic, will HTTP Auth switch to scram for secure auth?
[10:34:27] <dwd> Tobias, No, because this is only DIGEST-MD5 SASL, not Digest in HTTP.
[10:34:54] <dwd> Tobias, There have been repeated attempts to get SASL into HTTP. Never worked, sadly.
[10:35:08] <Tobias> ahh :) and digest in HTTP has zero problems compared to digest in SASL :)
[10:35:11] <Tobias> yeah, sadly
[10:35:26] <dwd> Tobias, I think in no small part because SASL authenticates a channel, whereas HTTP authenticates each request individually.
[10:35:56] <dwd> Tobias, Digest is not especially more broken than the rest of HTTP.
[10:36:32] <Tobias> yeah, they might have *more serious* problems over there
[10:41:34] * petermount left the chat.
[10:42:15] * petermount joined the chat.
[10:42:55] * petermount left the chat.
[10:44:12] * petermount joined the chat.
[10:55:02] * Tobias left the chat.
[11:06:11] * smoku left the chat.
[11:06:12] * smoku joined the chat.
[12:00:27] * smoku left the chat.
[12:00:30] * smoku joined the chat.
[12:01:36] * scippio joined the chat.
[12:07:33] * scippio left the chat.
[12:07:46] * scippio joined the chat.
[12:10:32] <dwd> "Your system is running on battery. Are you sure you want to continue?" - erm, continue *what*?
[12:13:34] <Florob> Try the "No" button ;)
[12:14:23] * Treebilou left the chat.
[12:15:39] <dwd> Florob, It doesn't have one. It let's me cancel being sure, or continue being sure.
[12:15:45] <dwd> Florob, But I'm not sure.
[12:16:11] <MattJ> If it's a Mac you'll probably have a guy from Apple come and plug it in to the mains for you
[12:17:11] <dwd> MattJ, I thought about buying a Mac, but I'm all grown up now.
[12:17:57] <dwd> Now, this is Ubuntu. The message popped up as I logged in.
[12:18:24] <dwd> So, does it mean "continue logging in", or "continue doing Something Nameless which automatically started when you logged
in"?
[12:19:44] <MattJ> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/426708
[12:21:40] <dwd> But it claims to be fixed.
[12:22:24] <dwd> I do like that it used to have both buttons assigned to the same shortcut. Presumably in case you're really not sure.
[12:22:44] <dwd> [Cancel] [Continue] [Aw, Heck, You Decide]
[12:30:16] * smoku left the chat.
[12:30:17] * smoku joined the chat.
[12:32:54] <petermount> just tried it on my ubuntu netbook but as I have no pending updates it didn't complain about being on battery
[12:36:00] <dwd> petermount, Maybe you just weren't sure.
[12:37:47] <petermount> hehe
[13:18:38] * scippio left the chat.
[13:37:13] * Florob left the chat.
[13:39:54] * lg0533 joined the chat.
[13:39:54] * lg0533 left the chat.
[13:41:52] * McKael left the chat.
[13:42:04] * McKael joined the chat.
[13:44:16] * scippio joined the chat.
[13:51:55] * Treebilou joined the chat.
[14:50:24] * petermount left the chat.
[14:51:01] * petermount joined the chat.
[14:51:58] * Guus left the chat.
[14:52:32] * mlundblad_laptop left the chat.
[14:52:48] * Guus joined the chat.
[14:53:51] * mlundblad_laptop joined the chat.
[14:54:07] * Treebilou left the chat.
[14:54:26] * Treebilou joined the chat.
[15:13:33] * scippio left the chat.
[15:13:38] * scippio joined the chat.
[15:14:20] * loxs joined the chat.
[15:15:02] <loxs> where is it explained what are the allowed characters in the jid?
[15:16:41] * Alex left the chat.
[15:17:10] <smoku> loxs, RFC 3920
[15:18:11] <petermount> mainly the NODEPREP and RESOURCEPREP sections...
[15:19:20] <Kev> loxs: Or http://xmpp.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-xmpp-address-06.html if you're interested in the bis era.
[15:20:12] <loxs> ok, I'll take it for granted that only alphanumeric, dot and underscore. Reading that stuff is not for me :)
[15:20:32] <Kev> That sounds like a pretty poor policy.
[15:20:53] <Kev> What are you doing that you need to know about valid JIDs?
[15:21:10] <loxs> a minimal web client
[15:21:19] <Kev> Oh, you certainly don't want to do that, then.
[15:21:33] <Kev> If you're writing a client, you'll *need* to read the specs.
[15:21:41] <Kev> Well, or use a library written by somebody who has.
[15:21:54] <dwd> Even then it's quite helpful.
[15:22:47] <dwd> loxs, For a start, there exist jids with accented characters, Cyrillic alphabets, Arabic - all sorts.
[15:22:47] <loxs> I am wondering why ejabberd throws errors when you try to login with a jid that has a space in it. Shouldn't it handle it
properly?
[15:22:59] <dwd> loxs, That *is* handling it properly.
[15:23:14] <loxs> dwd: I mean it throws erlang errors, not xmpp errors to the client
[15:23:41] <dwd> loxs, Oh! I see. No, that's obviously a bug, but a thing with a space in it now a jid.
[15:23:45] <dwd> is not a jid.
[15:23:49] <loxs> dwd: and yeah, by "alphanumeric" I mean "utf-8" alphanumbers
[15:23:49] <dwd> Can't type today.
[15:24:21] <dwd> loxs, That's largely a meaningless definition.
[15:24:32] <loxs> dwd: I can certainly try to login via strophe.js using something like "my name@myserver.com"
[15:24:33] <jonas> alphanumeric, like cat face kind of alpha numeric?
[15:24:58] <loxs> dwd: and then ejabberd throws errors
[15:25:14] <MattJ> loxs, it should return an XMPP error
[15:25:14] <Kev> Sounds like strophe expects you to have pre-validated JIDs, and ejabberd has a bug.
[15:27:07] <MattJ> sigh
[15:27:55] * smoku left the chat.
[15:28:14] * smoku joined the chat.
[15:34:36] * mlundblad_laptop left the chat.
[15:37:23] * deryni joined the chat.
[15:39:36] * Treebilou left the chat.
[15:39:48] * Zash joined the chat.
[15:39:56] * Treebilou joined the chat.
[15:40:48] * zaran joined the chat.
[15:40:54] * zaran left the chat.
[15:47:59] * zaran joined the chat.
[15:50:10] * loxs left the chat.
[15:54:08] * zaran left the chat.
[15:54:22] * Neustradamus left the chat.
[15:55:34] * Neustradamus joined the chat.
[16:09:29] * lance joined the chat.
[16:24:15] * Zash left the chat.
[16:35:55] * jonas left the chat.
[16:49:37] * darkrain_ joined the chat.
[16:49:40] * teo1 left the chat.
[16:56:46] <darkrain_> How widely deployed is XEP-0160, and are there any clients out there that refuse to send messages to an offline contact if
the contact's server (or bare JID?) don't advertise the msgoffline feature?
[17:00:12] * jonkri joined the chat.
[17:03:51] * k joined the chat.
[17:08:32] * waqas joined the chat.
[17:09:53] * k left the chat.
[17:10:08] * petermount left the chat.
[17:11:45] * zaran joined the chat.
[17:15:52] * waqas left the chat.
[17:16:32] * waqas joined the chat.
[17:18:25] * Tobias joined the chat.
[17:19:29] * scippio left the chat.
[17:19:45] * waqas left the chat.
[17:21:26] * zaran left the chat.
[17:21:40] * zaran joined the chat.
[17:21:47] * zaran left the chat.
[17:24:29] * tofu left the chat.
[17:24:35] * tofu joined the chat.
[17:30:05] * smoku left the chat.
[17:30:19] * teo1 joined the chat.
[17:30:58] * smoku joined the chat.
[17:37:44] * tofu left the chat.
[17:37:49] * tofu joined the chat.
[17:44:14] * luca tagliaferri left the chat.
[17:44:55] * lance left the chat.
[17:48:47] * yagiza joined the chat.
[17:49:23] <yagiza> Hello every1!
[18:11:10] * Tobias left the chat.
[18:12:42] * jkhii left the chat.
[18:15:42] * waqas joined the chat.
[18:17:44] * wiretap left the chat.
[18:17:46] * wiretap joined the chat.
[18:21:15] * Kheru joined the chat.
[18:21:19] * Kheru left the chat.
[18:22:00] * teo1 left the chat.
[18:22:57] * teo1 joined the chat.
[18:26:47] * smoku left the chat.
[18:31:56] * scippio joined the chat.
[18:33:21] * louiz’ joined the chat.
[18:45:54] * waqas left the chat.
[18:48:02] * Ludovic joined the chat.
[18:56:07] <jonkri> is jingle file sending slow for sending large files? i have heard some people say that google talk (that uses jingle) was
slow for them
[18:56:25] <jonkri> we're considering http and jiung
[18:56:30] <jonkri> s/jiung/jingle
[18:57:17] <MattJ> Jingle is a signaling/negotiation protocol
[18:57:36] <Kev> It's as fast as the uplink of the sender and downlinkof the receiver will allow, Jingle is only the negotiation bit that comes
before the p2p session.
[18:57:37] <MattJ> It can negotiate a range of transports, so you need to ask which of the transports are slow
[18:57:57] <Kev> Unless it has to fall back to using a proxy or somesuch.
[18:58:10] <darkrain_> Kev: Or IBB
[18:58:22] <Link Mauve> Can Jingle negociate a connexion over HTTP?
[18:58:24] <Kev> darkrain_: Sending stuff via the server's a proxy, no? :)
[18:58:45] <darkrain_> Touche :) (I was, naturally, thinking of socks5 proxies :) )
[18:59:13] <Kev> I think GTalk falls back to a traditional style proxy, rather than ibb, though (although I base this on very little).
[18:59:27] <jonkri> how do you ask which of the transport is slow? you test them?
[18:59:29] <jonkri> what's ibb?
[18:59:47] <darkrain_> jonkri: In-Band Bytestreams. The file is sent in a number of small chunks the same way actual messages are (via the server)
[18:59:53] * Tobias joined the chat.
[19:00:39] <jonkri> darkrain_: what's the performance of such transfer method?
[19:00:48] <darkrain_> There's significant overhead (XMPP isn't binary-safe, so you need to base64-encode the file), and servers rate-limit the speed
at which you can send messages.
[19:01:37] <jonkri> aha ok
[19:01:55] <darkrain_> In-band is not the preferred method :)
[19:02:56] <Kev> Well, for small files it's the sensible thing to do.
[19:03:43] <jonkri> what other things should i consider using with jingle? traditional style proxy? http?
[19:04:02] <jonkri> i see now that there's a jingle chapter in the oreilly book, i will read it :)
[19:04:09] <MattJ> Good idea :)
[19:06:11] * Zash joined the chat.
[19:09:35] * fzu joined the chat.
[19:10:26] * fzu left the chat.
[19:18:08] * justin joined the chat.
[19:19:23] * Guus left the chat.
[19:30:08] * Florob joined the chat.
[19:33:38] * yagiza left the chat.
[19:34:19] * jonkri left the chat.
[19:36:19] * jonkri joined the chat.
[19:44:58] * mlundblad joined the chat.
[19:52:54] * Neustradamus left the chat.
[19:59:32] * nabatt left the chat.
[20:01:18] * Neustradamus joined the chat.
[20:17:29] * wiretap left the chat.
[20:17:29] * wiretap joined the chat.
[20:24:49] * lance joined the chat.
[20:32:47] <jonkri> ok, i have now read the chapter on jingle... sending files over http seems easier to implement, but implementing access control
(checking if the person requesting the file has access to it) is harder with http
[20:33:39] <jonkri> so i guess jingle is the better option...
[20:37:35] <Florob> jonkri, really? Playing the role of a http server and getting that through a NAT etc, sounds easier to you?
[20:40:00] * lance left the chat.
[20:40:02] <jonkri> hmm, maybe not
[20:40:20] <jonkri> will most connections be as fast as http though? performance is like the most imporant attribute here
[20:41:32] <Tobias> p2p is always as fast as possible if there's no throttling applied by ISPs and internet routers
[20:41:38] <Florob> Why wouldn't they? I would have to reread it, but isn't it data over TCP vs. data over http over TCP?
[20:42:42] <Tobias> yeah, if http is used p2p it's of same speed
[20:43:36] * darkrain_ left the chat.
[20:43:50] * darkrain_ joined the chat.
[20:46:19] <jonkri> ok, thanks a lot :)
[20:58:44] * jonkri left the chat.
[21:03:24] * scippio left the chat.
[21:03:44] * scippio joined the chat.
[21:21:42] * scippio left the chat.
[21:22:49] * scippio joined the chat.
[21:26:11] * zaran joined the chat.
[21:26:48] * zaran left the chat.
[21:26:50] * zaran joined the chat.
[21:27:11] * zaran left the chat.
[21:28:10] * ermine left the chat.
[21:33:04] * Tobias left the chat.
[21:33:17] * Tobias joined the chat.
[21:42:04] * tofu left the chat.
[21:42:09] * tofu joined the chat.
[21:55:48] * johnny left the chat.
[21:56:00] * johnny joined the chat.
[21:56:16] * johnny left the chat.
[21:56:33] * johnny joined the chat.
[22:05:19] * tofu left the chat.
[22:05:21] * tofu joined the chat.
[22:09:24] * mlundblad left the chat.
[22:18:51] * Neustradamus left the chat.
[22:24:38] * Tobias left the chat.
[22:26:10] * tofu left the chat.
[22:31:21] * abhinavsingh left the chat.
[22:35:16] * Ludovic left the chat.
[22:53:18] * rakaur joined the chat.
[22:53:18] * rakaur left the chat.
[22:53:21] * rakaur joined the chat.
[22:53:21] * rakaur left the chat.
[22:59:23] * Florob left the chat.
[22:59:28] * Florob joined the chat.
[23:14:20] * greencard joined the chat.
[23:21:11] * greencard left the chat.